| Author |
|
Moderator
Admin Group
Joined: 10 July 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 446
|
| Posted: 09 May 2005 at 4:52am | IP Logged
|
|
|
45 length to me means it is nothing more than an early fade of the LP length.
__________________
Top 40 Music On Compact Disc Moderator
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Todd Ireland
MusicFan
Joined: 16 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4219
|
| Posted: 09 May 2005 at 8:10am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Brian W. wrote:
Todd, if an LP version has been made to exactly match the 45 version, shouldn't we simply call it "45 version"? If it matches exactly, how do you know it's not really the 45 version?
I always thought Pat's use of the term "45 length" meant that he wasn't 100% sure if it was the 45 version or not, but it was the same length.
But in this particular case, it seems to me the accurate description would be "neither the 45 or LP version." |
|
|
I think you may be misunderstanding, Brian. Pat and I are discussing a direct comparison between the commercial vinyl 45 and the LP version of Cyndi Lauper's "Change of Heart". The 45 runs 3:59; the LP runs 4:22. The two versions are identical up until the 3:56 mark, but then the remaining moments are subject to interpretation. We're trying to make a judgement if the 45 is an early fade of the LP (which would therefore warrant a 45 length/LP length distinction) or if it's a slightly different version than the LP (which would warrant a 45 version/LP version distinction).
If the 3:59 version of "Change of Heart" were to eventually appear on CD, I honestly don't have a big issue over whether it elicits a "45 version" or "45 length" comment just as long as some notation is made that it differs from the LP. Currently there are five entries in the 10th edition for "Change of Heart" which run between 4:16-4:22 but no mention of any of them being the LP version/length.
Edited by Todd Ireland on 09 May 2005 at 8:21am
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Brian W.
MusicFan
Joined: 13 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2507
|
| Posted: 10 May 2005 at 2:42pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I understand -- I was responding to your comment that if an LP version is faded to "exactly duplicate" the 45 version, it should be designated "45 length." I'm just saying if it does EXACTLY match the 45, you wouldn't be able to tell it was the LP version faded early, so why not just call it "45 version."
Anyway, I'm glad I know now what Pat means by "45 length." Though I prefer "LP version faded early in an unsuccessful attempt to match the 45 version," which would seem to apply in this case.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Todd Ireland
MusicFan
Joined: 16 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4219
|
| Posted: 10 May 2005 at 3:48pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Brian W. wrote:
I understand -- I was responding to your comment that if an LP version is faded to "exactly duplicate" the 45 version, it should be designated "45 length." I'm just saying if it does EXACTLY match the 45, you wouldn't be able to tell it was the LP version faded early, so why not just call it "45 version."
Anyway, I'm glad I know now what Pat means by "45 length." Though I prefer "LP version faded early in an unsuccessful attempt to match the 45 version," which would seem to apply in this case. |
|
|
If a record label were to try creating the 45 version of "Change of Heart" by taking the LP version, fading it out at 3:59, and releasing it on CD, then yes I would definitely agree this would warrant an "LP version faded early in an unsucessful attempt to match the 45 version" comment here because this particular version would contain instruments during the final :03 that are not present on the actual 45. But what's interesting here is that if a record label were to take the LP version, fade it out at 3:56, and release it, this may elicit something like a "faded :03 sooner than the 45 length" comment (although I don't think Pat normally makes note of such time discrepencies unless it exceeds five seconds). It's amazing what a difference a few seconds can make in how we perceive a song!
Edited by Todd Ireland on 10 May 2005 at 4:03pm
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
aaronk
Admin Group
Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6513
|
| Posted: 11 May 2005 at 6:08pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I have both the full-length CD of La Bouche and the singles for "Be My Lover" and "Sweet Dreams." As far as I can remember, the post above is correct for "Be My Lover." However, the LP Version and "Radio Edit 2" for "Sweet Dreams" are different. It is a different guy who raps on the "Radio Edit 2" version of "Sweet Dreams," although the lyrics are the same.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Todd Ireland
MusicFan
Joined: 16 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4219
|
| Posted: 11 May 2005 at 10:55pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
In my recent discussion with Pat, I articulated my policy to designate the A-side or leadoff track on commercial singles as the official single version for a particular song. But in the case of commercial singles like Le Click's "Call Me", which contains two versions that received significant airplay, Pat has gotten me to thinking it would actually make a lot more sense to use comments like "45 version with rap" and "45 version without rap" when describing which versions of this song appear on CD. These type of descriptions would not be unprecedented in Pat's book as songs like Paul McCartney's "No More Lonely Nights" have had multiple 45 versions available on CD. The same concept could also apply to the La Bouche "Be My Lover" and "Sweet Dreams" commercial singles which both feature Radio Edit 1 and Radio Edit 2 on their respective track listings and these versions all received airplay.
Continuing with the list now...
Julian Lennon - Say You're Wrong ==> Single version - 3:46. Album version - 3:28. (available on vinyl 45)
I don't normally go as far back as 1985 for singles on this particular message thread, but I did happen to catch this song. Ed helped me verify that the single version contains an extra chorus at the 3:00 mark, which is why it runs longer than the album version overall.
Annie Lennox - Walking on Broken Glass ==> Album and cassette single version - 4:12. CD single version - 3:59.
The information for this particular entry was modified on 08/29/05.
Gerald Levert - Thinkin' Bout It ==> Album version - 6:29. (Whitburn - 4:22)
My research suggests commercial single copies contain a "radio edit".
Gerald Levert - Taking Everything ==> Album version - 5:22. (Whitburn - 4:05)
I'm still trying to verify this, but it appears there were two different commercial single releases for this song. One contains an "Edit" and the other features a "Soap Opera Remix Edit".
Lil' Kim featuring Da Brat, Left Eye, Missy "Misdemeanor" Elliott and Angie Martinez - Not Tonight ==> Album version - 4:23. (Whitburn - 4:12)
LL Cool J - Hey Lover ==> Single version - 3:59*. Album version - 4:43. (available on vinyl 45)
Brian W. shows the cassette single stating "Radio Edit" with a run time of 4:00 in his "1995 - The 45 version... my old list" message thread.
Denise Lopez - Sayin' Sorry (Don't Make It Right) ==> Album version - 4:40. (Whitburn - 4:30) (available on vinyl 45)
Vinyl 45 copies indicates "remix" on the label. Also, the 10th edition incorrectly lists 1985 as the year "Sayin' Sorry" peaked in popularity when in fact the song was a hit in 1988.
Jeff Lorber featuring Karyn White - Facts of Love ==> Single version - 4:00. Album version - 4:32. (available on vinyl 45)
Thanks, Edtop40, for assisting me with this one!
Louie Louie - Sittin' in the Lap of Luxury ==> Single version - 3:24. Album version - 4:03. (available on vinyl 45)
The hit single version is the "Keith Cohen Mix".
Monie Love - It's a Shame (My Sister) ==> Album version - 3:42. (Whitburn - 3:30)
Luke featuring No Good but So Good - Raise the Roof ==> Album version - 3:39. (Whitburn - 3:30)
The A-side or leadoff track on commercial and promo single copies is reported to be the "Party Time Version".
Luscious Jackson - Naked Eye ==> Single version - 4:09*. Album version - 4:39. (Whitburn - 4:04) (available on vinyl 45)
Commercial single copies contain the "Radio Edit".
Edited by Todd Ireland on 29 August 2005 at 1:35pm
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Brian W.
MusicFan
Joined: 13 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2507
|
| Posted: 11 May 2005 at 11:35pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Todd Ireland wrote:
LL Cool J - Hey Lover ==> Single version - 3:59*. Album version - 4:43. (available on vinyl 45)
Brian W. shows the cassette single stating "Radio Edit" with a run time of 4:00 in his "1995 - The 45 version... my old list" message thread.
|
|
|
Mmm, after all these years, I'm not 100% sure if that was the cassette single version. I was committed to having the same version as on the cassette single, so if the cassette single SAID "Radio Edit" on the packaging, I would probably not have bought it to verify. But I would have checked. I OFTEN, but not always, would buy the cassette single to verify if it did not state which version was on it.
But that is the two-track commercial domestic CD single version of "Hey Lover." (Is that a mouthful?)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Brian W.
MusicFan
Joined: 13 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2507
|
| Posted: 12 May 2005 at 2:14am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Todd Ireland wrote:
Whitney Houston - All the Man That I Need ==> Album version - 4:09. (Whitburn - 3:53) (available on vinyl 45) |
|
|
I don't understand... are you saying the vinyl 45 was the Album Version? I always THOUGHT the cassette single was the edit version, but I don't have it anymore, so now you've got me doubting myself.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Brian W.
MusicFan
Joined: 13 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2507
|
| Posted: 12 May 2005 at 2:32am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Moderator wrote:
| Regarding "All The Man I Need" by Whitney Houston, does anyone have the 45 so that you can let us know if the 3:53 45 is just an early fade of the LP version? |
|
|
I don't have the 45, Pat, but I have the edit on the original UK CD single, and it is just a fade of the album version, running an actual 3:54. (Barely... some might say 3:53.)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Moderator
Admin Group
Joined: 10 July 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 446
|
| Posted: 12 May 2005 at 7:12pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Aerosmith - I Don't Want to Miss a Thing ==> LP version - 4:57.
It's my understanding that the vinyl 45, cassette single, and CD single features a "pop mix" that runs approximately 4:58. This mix is reported to be slightly different than the LP version.
Todd, I just got a commercial copy of the cd single for Aerosmith's "I Don't Want to Miss A Thing" which qualifies as the official 45 version (Columbia 78952), and compared it to the version found on the soundtrack to "Armageddon" which would be the LP version and I must say that I do not notice any difference in the mix between the two. In addition, there is no notation on the cd single that would indicate a "pop remix". If anyone can point out a mix difference to me I would appreciate it but otherwise it looks like the "pop mix" is just a promo only mix.
Edited by Moderator on 12 May 2005 at 7:20pm
__________________
Top 40 Music On Compact Disc Moderator
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Todd Ireland
MusicFan
Joined: 16 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4219
|
| Posted: 12 May 2005 at 10:35pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Brian W. wrote:
Todd Ireland wrote:
LL Cool J - Hey Lover ==> Single version - 3:59*. Album version - 4:43. (available on vinyl 45)
Brian W. shows the cassette single stating "Radio Edit" with a run time of 4:00 in his "1995 - The 45 version... my old list" message thread.
|
|
|
Mmm, after all these years, I'm not 100% sure if that was the cassette single version. I was committed to having the same version as on the cassette single, so if the cassette single SAID "Radio Edit" on the packaging, I would probably not have bought it to verify. But I would have checked. I OFTEN, but not always, would buy the cassette single to verify if it did not state which version was on it.
But that is the two-track commercial domestic CD single version of "Hey Lover." (Is that a mouthful?) |
|
|
Brian:
Joel Whitburn lists 4:00 as the run time, which is supposed to be based on the commercial cassette single release. Meanwhile, I've run across sources indicating the cassette single contains the "radio edit". Also, "Hey Lover" runs 3:59 on my Promo Only: Mainstream Radio DJ subscription CD series just like the single version.
Brian W. wrote:
Todd Ireland wrote:
Whitney Houston - All the Man That I Need ==> Album version - 4:09. (Whitburn - 3:53) (available on vinyl 45)
|
|
|
I don't understand... are you saying the vinyl 45 was the Album Version? I always THOUGHT the cassette single was the edit version, but I don't have it anymore, so now you've got me doubting myself. |
|
|
No, I'm not saying the vinyl 45 is the album version at all. I'm glad you bring this up though because this gives me the opportunity to clarify and review how to read entries like this. As you can see, I list the album version (which actually should read "album length" in this case) for Whitney Houston's "All the Man That I Need" at 4:09. This run time is based on how long the song runs on Houston's parent album/CD I'm Your Baby Tonight (Arista 8616). If I had a commercial single copy, I would also list the single run time. But since I don't have one, I instead note in parenthesis Joel Whitburn's listed commercial single run time of 3:53 as documented in his Top Pop Singles book. I do this to make Pat and other readers aware that the commercial single appears to have a significantly different run time or mix than the album version, but I'm currently unable to 100% confirm it. The "(available on vinyl 45)" comment is simply to let vinyl collectors know this song was pressed on 7-inch vinyl. That's all it means and has nothing to do with anything else.
By the way, if I'm not mistaken, it appears the 3:53 single length of Whitney Houston's "All the Man That I Need" is available on her Greatest Hits 2-CD set (Arista 14626).
Moderator wrote:
| Todd, I just got a commercial copy of the cd single for Aerosmith's "I Don't Want to Miss A Thing" which qualifies as the official 45 version (Columbia 78952), and compared it to the version found on the soundtrack to "Armageddon" which would be the LP version and I must say that I do not notice any difference in the mix between the two. In addition, there is no notation on the cd single that would indicate a "pop remix". If anyone can point out a mix difference to me I would appreciate it but otherwise it looks like the "pop mix" is just a promo only mix. |
|
|
Thanks for passing that info along, Pat. I guess I was incorrect in my initial understanding that commercial single copies of Aerosmith's "I Don't Want to Miss a Thing" contain the "pop mix".
Edited by Todd Ireland on 13 May 2005 at 7:47am
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Moderator
Admin Group
Joined: 10 July 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 446
|
| Posted: 13 May 2005 at 11:59am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I can finally put the issues regarding "All The Man That I Need" by Whitney Houston to rest. I just obtained the cassette single which times in at 3:53, and it is the same version that appears on the "Greatest Hits" cd. That version is identical to the version that is found on the original cd "I'm Your Baby Tonight" except it is faded :16 earlier than the version found on "I'm Your Baby Tonight". So the new entry in my database will list the 3:53 version as "45 length"
__________________
Top 40 Music On Compact Disc Moderator
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Brian W.
MusicFan
Joined: 13 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2507
|
| Posted: 13 May 2005 at 1:39pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Aha! Thanks, Pat. I didn't THINK I was crazy. (But you never know.)
But I'm glad I got the "45 length" meaning cleared up -- that it does NOT mean "unsuccessful attempt to duplicate the 45," it just means the 45 version was an early fade and has no edits within the song.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Todd Ireland
MusicFan
Joined: 16 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4219
|
| Posted: 13 May 2005 at 10:58pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I have a couple of updates...
Debbie Gibson - Staying Together ==> Single version - 4:16. Album version - 4:04.
My commercial cassette single copy states "LP version" on the cassette itself even though it is not the true LP version that appears on Gibsons's Out of the Blue (Atlantic 81780) CD.
Indecent Obsession - Tell Me Something ==> Single version - 4:06. Album version - 4:30.
I recently acquired a cassette single copy and confirmed the single run time.
The following Madonna singles are all very meticulously documented in Brian W.'s fabulous "Madonna - The 45 Versions on CD" message thread found elsewhere on the board. The reason I list five of them here is because the 10th edition of T40MOCD does not acknowledge single/album version distinctions for these songs and I don't think anyone has brought this to Pat's attention. If you would like more info on them, please refer to Brian's Madonna message thread.
Madonna - Oh Father ==> Single version - 4:25. Album version - 4:57. (available on vinyl 45)
Madonna - Rescue Me ==> Single version - 4:52. Album version - 5:30. (available on vinyl 45)
Madonna - Rain ==> Single version - 4:33. Album version - 5:24. (available on vinyl 45)
Madonna - You Must Love Me ==> Single version - 3:05. Album version - 2:49. (available on vinyl 45)
Madonna - Don't Cry for Me Argentina ==> Single version - 4:29. Album version - 5:31.
I'm in agreement with Brian that the Miami Mix Edit should be considered the official single version even though it's placed as Track 3 on the commercial maxi-CD single (there was never a two track retail cassette or CD single issued for this song). This is also the version featured on my Promo Only: Mainstream Radio DJ subscription CD. Even Joel Whitburn lists the run time at 4:27 in his Top Pop Singles 1955-1999 book which closely resembles the Miami Mix Edit run time.
Richard Marx - Children of the Night ==> Single version - 4:06. Album version - 4:43. (available on vinyl 45)
Promo DJ CD single copies (EMI DPRO#04522) run 4:06, not 4:00 as stated on the label, and 4:43.
Master P featuring Silkk the Shocker, Sons of Funk and Mo B. Dick - Goodbye to My Homies ==> Album version - 4:12. (Whitburn - 4:04)
My sources say commercial single copies feature a "Radio Version" which is supposedly different from the album version.
Tim McGraw - Please Remember Me ==> Album version - 4:54. (Whitburn - 4:29) (available on vinyl 45)
[M.C.] Hammer - Pumps and a Bump ==> Album version - 5:05. (Whitburn - 4:20) (available on vinyl 45)
Brian McKnight - One Last Cry ==> Album version - 4:54. (Whitburn - 4:19) (available on vinyl 45)
Meat Loaf - Rock and Roll Dreams Come Through ==> Single version - 5:11. Album version - 5:49. (available on vinyl 45)
Ed comes through here too... I thank him for confirming the single run time.
Glenn Medeiros featuring Ray Parker Jr. - All I'm Missing Is You ==> Single version - 3:44. Album version - 4:17.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Todd Ireland
MusicFan
Joined: 16 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4219
|
| Posted: 13 May 2005 at 10:59pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
.
Edited by Todd Ireland on 13 May 2005 at 11:05pm
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
EdisonLite
MusicFan
Joined: 18 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2237
|
| Posted: 13 May 2005 at 11:09pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Todd,
<Richard Marx - Children of the Night ==> Single version - 4:06. Album version - 4:43. (available on vinyl 45)
Promo DJ CD single copies (EMI DPRO#04522) run 4:06, not 4:00 as stated on the label, and 4:43. >
Can you specify where the album version is edited to make the single version? Or is it a fade? Does the single has the same mix as the album version? Thanks Todd!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Todd Ireland
MusicFan
Joined: 16 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4219
|
| Posted: 16 May 2005 at 7:43am | IP Logged
|
|
|
EdisonLite:
You won't be able to exactly recreate the single version of "Children of the Night" from the album version because the single's intro opens with two drum hits not found on the album's intro. If you want to make a close attempt at creating the single version, you will need to snip off the first :11 of the album intro (though, again, it won't match the single's intro exactly) and then edit out between 3:59 and 4:24 right before the horns blow at each point.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
EdisonLite
MusicFan
Joined: 18 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2237
|
| Posted: 16 May 2005 at 11:33am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Hi Todd,
Thanks for the info!
EdisonLite
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Todd Ireland
MusicFan
Joined: 16 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4219
|
| Posted: 16 May 2005 at 4:10pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
No problem, EdisonLite.
By the way... Pat, I recently spoke to an old radio friend of mine who was a program director at a R&B/rhythmic/dance-oriented Top 40 station back in the mid- to late '90s. I had the presence of mind to ask him if he remembered which version of Az Yet's "Hard to Say I'm Sorry" he programmed on his station's playlist back when the song was popular. He said he's pretty sure he played the version without Peter Cetera at first but later added the Peter Cetera mix when that song was peaking on the charts.
If this one radio station was playing the Az Yet only version, then chances are others around the country were as well and may have influenced consumers to purchase the single accordingly. Therefore, I'm now of the opinion it would be better to describe CD appearances of Az Yet's "Hard to Say I'm Sorry" as either (45 version with Peter Cetera) or (LP version and 45 version without Peter Cetera), whichever is applicable (if at all). So far, it looks like the version with Peter Cetera has yet to be issued on a domestic full-length CD release.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Todd Ireland
MusicFan
Joined: 16 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4219
|
| Posted: 19 May 2005 at 11:22pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Update...
Deborah Cox with R.L. - We Can't Be Friends ==> Single version - 4:19. Album version - 4:40.
It took a while, but I finally got my CD single copy and have confirmed the run time.
The next batch...
Men at Large - So Alone ==> Single version - 3:57. Album version - 7:25.
Miami Sound Machine - Falling in Love (Uh-Oh) ==> Album version - 3:57. (Whitburn - 3:07) (available on vinyl 45) I do know the single version is a remix.
Michel'le - Something in My Heart ==> Single version - 3:58. Album version - 5:49. (available on vinyl 45)
Mike + The Mechanics - Taken In ==> Album version - 4:16. (Whitburn - 3:55) (available on vinyl 45)
Robert Miles - Children ==> Single version - 4:02. Album version - 7:05. (available on vinyl 45)
All commercial single copies feature the "radio edit".
Mint Condition - Breakin' My Heart (Pretty Brown Eyes) ==> Single version - 4:45. Album version - 5:55.
My commercial cassette single copy contains the "album edit". This version is found on The Collection 1991-1998 (Perspective 9039) CD and is listed in the 10th edition as "album edit". A "single version" or "45 version" comment would probably work better here because the album edit is what was made available to consumers on a retail single format.
Edtop40 was gracious enough to verify his commercial cassette single copies of the next three Mint Condition songs:
Mint Condition - U Send Me Swingin' ==> Single version - 4:11. Album version - 5:14.
Ed says the cassingle contains the 7" radio edit. Although I'm unable to do a direct A/B comparison between a cassette and CD, I'm certain this 7" radio edit is the same one appearing on Mint Condition's The Collection 1991-1998 disc. Pat comments in the 10th edition that this is the "radio edit", which is true, but I think this would be better stated as "single version" (or "45 version", although a vinyl 45 was never released for this song).
Mint Condition - What Kind of Man Would I Be ==> Single version - 4:05. Album version - 4:24. (available on vinyl 45)
Ed tells me his cassette single contains the radio edit running 4:05. Again, even though I can't directly compare the cassette to CD, it certainly appears this radio edit is the one on The Collection 1991-1998 CD. The 10th edition shows the song on this disc with the comment "radio edit", but I think "45 version" or "single version" would once again better apply here.
Mint Condition - You Don't Have to Hurt No More ==> Single version - 4:15. Album version - 5:21. (available on vinyl 45)
Here's another case where Ed says his cassette single contains a radio edit, which appears to be the very same one on The Collection 1991-1998 CD. Ed and I both believe all the Top 40 songs on this particular CD are the 45/single versions.
Mint Condition - If You Love Me ==> Album version - 6:25. (Whitburn - 4:13)
CD single copies are reported to feature the "Radio Version".
Monica - For You I Will ==> Single version - 4:09.* Album version - 4:54. (Whitburn - 4:09)
Mark Morrison - Return of the Mack ==> Single version - 3:30. Album version - 7:19.
The single version is the "C&J edit". If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say the single version is on The Absolute Hits (Atlantic 83158) CD even though I don't have a copy of this disc.
Edited by Todd Ireland on 19 May 2005 at 11:24pm
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Active Topics 
Memberlist 
Search 
Help
Register 
Login
Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Single/album version distinctions...
