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Brian W.
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| Posted: 23 September 2006 at 1:46pm | IP Logged
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You know, I just A/B'd the vinyl 45 of "Holiday" with the version on the Japanese CD singles set. The edit is identical, but on the vinyl 45, the intro comprising the first nine seconds is MONO. The tambourine, which is in the right channel on the album version, is dead center, as is everything else on the intro.
I can't explain that. I know they didn't re-edit the album version for the CD Singles Collection, because you can hear the hiss on the fadeout... If they had re-edited it, there would be no hiss, because that wasn't the end of the song on the album version.
Maybe it's something they did to it when mastering the disc... they can change all sorts of things when mastering for vinyl.
I do NOT believe that the vinyl 45 is actually a different MIX, as I can detect no other differences. I will say the song overall MAY have a SLIGHTLY narrower stereo spectrum on the vinyl.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 23 September 2006 at 7:06pm | IP Logged
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A friend of mine has the promo 45, and it has stereo on one side and mono on the other. While that may not help explain the situation, I do know that a mono version exists. I've never actually listened carefully to the 45 to see if the "mono" version is actually in mono all the way through.
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 23 September 2006 at 11:37pm | IP Logged
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The commecial 45 is not mono all the way through. David thinks I'm wrong about the intro being mono. Maybe it's not, but I do know the tambourine on the intro is very far to the right in the stereo 45 edit on the Japanese set, and on the LP version, but it's dead center on the commercial 45.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 24 September 2006 at 12:12am | IP Logged
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Brian W. wrote:
I know they didn't re-edit the album version for the CD Singles Collection, because you can hear the hiss on the fadeout... If they had re-edited it, there would be no hiss, because that wasn't the end of the song on the album version.
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While it stands to reason that hiss on the end of the fadeout would indicate an original master being used, I wouldn't put anything past the record companies. Who knows why there's a difference. Perhaps the master tape was bad on the intro, and someone spliced on part of the LP version to get rid of a tape dropout problem, and, OOPS, they didn't realize that the original master was mixed slightly different on the 45 version. There could be any number of possibilities.
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Underground Dub
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| Posted: 24 September 2006 at 12:18am | IP Logged
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Also, for complete accuracy one would need the original JAPANESE 7" to compare to the 3" since the singles box is based on those releases.
There are many cases where what was issued on the US and Japan 7" singles differed.
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 24 September 2006 at 2:14am | IP Logged
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Good point, Underground.
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Underground Dub
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| Posted: 24 September 2006 at 10:39am | IP Logged
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Speaking of that 40 3" CD Singles box, here's a list I compiled explaining what is on the set, and why one really does not need it.
I'll start by saying the box is shoddy and gets worn no matter how careful you are with it. The booklet is cheap and full of typos. No photos whatsoever.
The picture sleeves are poorly reproduced. They look like old sun damaged colour copies and don't accurately portray the full original artwork of each release.
Musically speaking, there are tons of US single versions that do not appear, and there is only one true must-have on the set. Here is the breakdown.
39 TRACKS EASILY FOUND ON ALBUMS
- EVERYBODY (FADE)*
- LUCKY STAR
- THINK OF ME
- I KNOW IT
Madonna/The First Album
* Pre-2001 Sire issues of Madonna/The First Album
- LIKE A VIRGIN
- STAY
- MATERIAL GIRL
- PRETENDER
- DRESS YOU UP
- SHOO-BEE-DOO
- LOVE DON'T LIVE HERE ANYMORE
- OVER AND OVER
Like A Virgin
- CRAZY FOR YOU
- GAMBLER
Vision Quest OST (both Vision Quest tracks also appear in full on the 5" Japan EP La Isla Bonita Super Mix)
- OPEN YOUR HEART
- LA ISLA BONITA
- JIMMY JIMMY
- WHITE HEAT
True Blue
- WHO'S THAT GIRL
- THE LOOK OF LOVE
Who's That Girl OST
- EXPRESS YOURSELF
- SPANISH EYES
- ACT OF CONTRITION
Like A Prayer
- HANKY PANKY
- MORE
I'm Breathless
- JUSTIFY MY LOVE
- EXPRESS YOURSELF (1990)
The Immaculate Collection
- EROTICA
- FEVER
- BYE BYE BABY
- RAIN
- SECRET GARDEN
Erotica
- SECRET
- TAKE A BOW
Bedtime Stories
- THIS USED TO BE MY PLAYGROUND (SINGLE VERSION)
- I'LL REMEMBER
- ONE MORE CHANCE
Something To Remember
- DEEPER AND DEEPER (EDIT)
- HUMAN NATURE (RADIO VERSION)
GHV2
It takes only 12 common albums to render more than 50% of this set unnecessary.
6 DUPLICATE TRACKS (SAME TRACK/VERSION APPEARS MORE THAN ONCE ON SET)
- PHYSICAL ATTRACTION (EDIT)
- THINK OF ME
- I KNOW IT
- LA ISLA BONITA
- WHITE HEAT
- THE LOOK OF LOVE
All but one from the above list of "album" tracks.
29 TRACKS (EASILY, FOR THE MOST PART) FOUND ELSEWHERE
- PHYSICAL ATTRACTION (EDIT)
You Can Dance: Single Edits Of Album Remixes US Promo
- HOLIDAY (EDIT)
UK Promo 1991
- AIN'T NO BIG DEAL [non-LP track]
Dress You Up/Ain't No Big Deal 5" Japan EP, Papa Don't Preach German 5" CD Single 1995
- INTO THE GROOVE
international copies of Like A Virgin, US BackTrax 5" single, Japan Club Mix EP, German 5" single 1995
- LIVE TO TELL (EDIT)
Live To Tell German 5" CD Single 1995
- LIVE TO TELL (INSTRUMENTAL)
Live To Tell German 5" CD Single 1995
- CAUSING A COMMOTION (SILVER SCREEN SINGLE MIX)
The Holiday Collection German 5" EP
- SPOTLIGHT (SINGLE EDIT)
You Can Dance: Single Edits Of Album Remixes US Promo
- WHERE'S THE PARTY (SINGLE EDIT)
You Can Dance: Single Edits Of Album Remixes US Promo
- CHERISH (7" VERSION)
Cherish US 5" promo, Cherish original issue Japan 3" single, Cherish German 5" CD Single 1995
- SUPERNATURAL [non-LP track]
Cherish original issue Japan 3" Single 1989, Cherish German/UK 3" Single 1989, German 5" CD Single 1995
- OH FATHER (EDIT)
Oh Father US 5" promo, Oh Father original issue Japan 3" single, UK 5" promo 1995
- KEEP IT TOGETHER (SINGLE MIX)
Keep It Together US 5" maxi-single, Keep It Together original issue Japan 3" single, Vogue/Keep It Together US BackTrax 5" single
- KEEP IT TOGETHER (INSTRUMENTAL)
Keep It Together US 5" maxi-single, Keep It Together original issue Japan 3" single, Keep It Together -Mini Album- Japan 5" EP
- VOGUE (SINGLE MIX)
Vogue US 5" maxi-single, Vogue original issue Japan 3" single, Vogue/Keep It Together US BackTrax 5" single
- VOGUE (BETTE DAVIS DUB)
Vogue US 5" maxi-single, Vogue original issue Japan 3" single, Vogue EP Japan 5" EP
- RESCUE ME (SINGLE MIX)
Rescue Me US/Canada 5" maxi-single, Rescue Me original issue Japan 3" single, Rescue Me Alternate Mix Japan 5" EP, Justify My Love/Rescue Me US BackTrax 5" single
- RESCUE ME (ALTERNATE SINGLE MIX)
US promo single 2, Rescue Me original issue Japan 3" single
- THIS USED TO BE MY PLAYGROUND (LONG VERSION)
TUTBMP US promo single, TUTBMP UK/German 5" maxi single, TUTBMP original issue Japan 3" single
- EROTICA (INSTRUMENTAL)
Erotica US 5" single, Erotica original issue Japan 3" single, Erotica UK/German 5" maxi single
- DEEPER AND DEEPER (INSTRUMENTAL)
Deeper And Deeper US 5" single, Deeper And Deeper original issue Japan 3" single, Bad Girl German 5" maxi single
- BAD GIRL (EDIT)
Bad Girl US 5" single, Bad Girl US/Canada 5" maxi-single, original issue Japan 3" single, UK 5" maxi single, German 5" maxi single
- RAIN (RADIO REMIX)
Rain US 5" single, Rain US/Canada 5" maxi single, Rain German 5" single, Bye Bye Baby original issue Japan 3" single
- SECRET (INSTRUMENTAL)
Secret US 5" single, Secret original issue Japan 3" single, Secret UK/German cd maxi-single 1
- TAKE A BOW (INDASOUL MIX)
TAB US 5" single, TAB US/Canada 5" maxi-single, TAB original issue Japan 3" single, TAB Remixes Japan 5" EP, TAB Remixes German 5" maxi-single
- YOU'LL SEE (EDIT)
You'll See US 5" promo singles 1 and 2, You'll See UK/German/Japan 5" maxi single
- YOU'LL SEE (INSTRUMENTAL)
You'll See US 5" single, You'll See US/Canada 5" maxi-single, You'll See UK/German/Japan 5" maxi single
- YOU'LL SEE (SPANGLISH VERSION)
You'll See US 5" promo single 2, One More Chance UK/Japan maxi-single
- VERAS (YOU'LL SEE - SPANISH VERSION)
You'll See US/Canada 5" maxi-single, One More Chance UK/Japan maxi-single
It may not be easy to obtain the You Can Dance Single Edits promo (which provides 4 additional remix/edits unavailable elsewhere) or the 1991 Holiday promo (which is an easily recreated, poorly executed edit of the LP version), but everything else is quite common and it's likely you'll shell out considerably less for all of the necessary releases combined than for the Japan 3" singles box. You also quadruple the number of tracks you'll be adding to your collection by opting for these 5" releases.
8 "EXCLUSIVE" TRACKS
- ANGEL (FADE) - Early fade of LP version
- PAPA DON'T PREACH (EDIT) - Early fade of LP version
- TRUE BLUE (EDIT) - Early fade of LP version
- LA ISLA BONITA (INSTRUMENTAL - EDIT) - Early fade of Instrumental [12"]
- LIKE A PRAYER (LP VERSION w/FADE) - Early fade of LP version
- BURNING UP (EDIT) - Straightfoward edit of 12" Version
- ANGEL (DANCE MIX EDIT) - Straightfoward edit of Extended Dance Mix
- BORDERLINE (EDIT) - The only real reason to buy this set.
That's right. Out of a whopping 82 tracks you're really only getting 5 easy to recreate early fades, 2 easy to recreate simple edits and 1 true important exclusive.
With new compilations popping up weekly and a 25th anniversary Madonna something in the works it's safe to assume that it's only a matter of time before Borderline (Edit) ends up on another CD.
The following are US single versions not found on this set from the covered 1982-1996 period:
- EVERYBODY (Edit) not on CD, edit of 12" version
- LUCKY STAR (Edit) not on CD, edit of LP version
- CRAZY FOR YOU (Single Fade) on Something To Remember
- PAPA DON'T PREACH (LP Version) on True Blue
- TRUE BLUE (LP Version) on True Blue
- LIKE A PRAYER (7" Version) on the US 3" single
- EXPRESS YOURSELF (7" Remix) on the US promo single
- BEDTIME STORY (Edit) on the US maxi single, all imports
- LOVE DON'T LIVE HERE ANYMORE (Soulpower Radio Remix) on US/German singles
Edited by Underground Dub on 24 September 2006 at 2:28pm
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 24 September 2006 at 12:56pm | IP Logged
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Nice summary, Underground, and you're right -- Borderline is the only thing you couldn't recreate yourself from other sources.
Personally, though, I hate doing my own edits if the "real deal" is out there somewhere, especially since I think fades are extremely hard to duplicate exactly. So I'm still glad I plunked down $400 for this set on Ebay last year.
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elcoleccionista
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| Posted: 26 September 2006 at 12:31pm | IP Logged
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I would also like to mention that LIKE A PRAYER (7" Version) on the US 3" single, can also be found on the originally issued Japanese 3" CD single, to which the one included on the Box was not faithful to, including a simple album version fade. Erm, nice work.
One of the several flaws of this so-so box that I mentioned months ago on other posts, including the washed away colors on the covers, and looks like I'm not alone in thinking so.
I do have to say that as far as sound quality, several tracks here surpass by far the dull sounding German 1995 reissued 5" CD singles, e.g. "Live To Tell". If you compare the edit and instrumental on both, the simplest ear will tell a big difference. Only for sound quality I will I give that box a compliment.
BTW, you can also get the LIVE TO TELL (INSTRUMENTAL)
on the Japanese "True Blue-Super Club Mix EP" CD. It is its last track.
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 24 May 2007 at 1:05pm | IP Logged
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A question for those who worked in top 40 in 1987:
Which version of "La Isla Bonita" did you play? The LP/commercial 45 or the Remix/edit on the B-side of the promo 45? Do you remember which version turned up on American Top 40? The differences between the mixes aren't drastic enough to stand out in my memory after 20 years.
I was in college radio at the time, and we didn't get vinyl 7" service from WB/Sire.
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elcoleccionista
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| Posted: 24 May 2007 at 10:37pm | IP Logged
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I didn't work but I listened to it weekly, and clearly remember hearing the 7" remix on American Top 40. It must have been around the time it hit number 4 that Casey Kasem introduced the song and only then it started playing, he didn't speak "over" it. That was rare as far as I can recall, at least for a countdown song that was not number 1. So I was a happy boy then having taped that on casssette !
Edited by elcoleccionista on 24 May 2007 at 10:38pm
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 24 May 2007 at 11:57pm | IP Logged
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Did I neglect to mention that the 7" remix of La Isla Bonita (which I think is offically called simply "Remix") is available on CD? It's on an OOP (1987) UK comp called "Hits Album 6." I think I got mine on Ebay UK. The reason this 1987 comp used the remix is because that WAS the commercial single version in the UK.
It's not very rare or valuable, so I wouldn't pay more than 10 or 15 pounds for it. There's four copies on Ebay UK right now:
Hits Album 6
Edited by Brian W. on 24 May 2007 at 11:58pm
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 30 December 2007 at 11:37am | IP Logged
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Brian W. wrote:
| You Must Love Me – The two-track issue in all three formats was a 3:05 remix of the "Evita" soundtrack version with a violin intro, whereas the LP version started a capella. The single version has never been issued on an album, to my knowledge. The CD single is super-easy to find – there's a million copies on Half.com. (Warner Bros. UPC 054391-74952-9.) |
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Brian:
If my research is accurate, the two-track U.S. commercial CD single release of "You Must Love Me" contains:
1) You Must Love Me [you state this is the 3:05 single version]
2) Rainbow High
I bring this up because the European import CD single contains three tracks listed as follows:
1) You Must Love Me (Album Version)
2) Rainbow High (Album Version)
3) You Must Love Me - I'd Be Surprisingly Good For You (Orchestral Version)
Do you know if track 3 is identical to the U.S. single version? (I currently don't have the song on any CD single release.) Also, does anyone know if the one-track U.S. promo CD single on Warner Bros. PRO-CD-8472 features the single version?
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 30 December 2007 at 12:07pm | IP Logged
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My version from RPM Top Hits U.S.A. has a violin/piano intro and runs 3:01. If the single runs 3:05, RPM may have truncated the fade a bit.
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 30 December 2007 at 1:15pm | IP Logged
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Todd Ireland wrote:
Brian:
If my research is accurate, the two-track U.S. commercial CD single release of "You Must Love Me" contains:
1) You Must Love Me [you state this is the 3:05 single version]
2) Rainbow High
I bring this up because the European import CD single contains three tracks listed as follows:
1) You Must Love Me (Album Version)
2) Rainbow High (Album Version)
3) You Must Love Me - I'd Be Surprisingly Good For You (Orchestral Version)
Do you know if track 3 is identical to the U.S. single version? (I currently don't have the song on any CD single release.) Also, does anyone know if the one-track U.S. promo CD single on Warner Bros. PRO-CD-8472 features the single version? |
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I don't own it, but the Discogs.com listing shows this:
1. You Must Love Me (Album Version) (3:05)
2. Rainbow High (Album Version) (2:27)
3. You Must Love Me / I'd Be Surprisingly Good (Orchestral Version) (4:28)
So the answer would be no on track three. It's possible track one is mislabeled.
I would assume the promo single uses the single version with violin intro, but I don't own it, so I can't be sure.
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jimct
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| Posted: 01 January 2008 at 9:21am | IP Logged
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Guys, my one track, PRO-CD-3472, promo CD single does include the single version, with the violin intro. Also, it has no listed time, but an actual time of (3:03).
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 01 January 2008 at 11:25pm | IP Logged
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Thanks, Brian and Jim! I greatly appreciate the info.
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Underground Dub
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| Posted: 08 February 2008 at 11:27pm | IP Logged
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Gah!
Not top 40, but I did want to mention that "Bedtime Story" on the 7" and CD/Cassette singles differ.
The CD/Cassette releases feature the full LP Version, but use the same "special" intro as the Edit version.
The 7", however, fades up the LP Version directly from the full Bedtime Stories album master. Part of the preceding, segued track "Sanctuary" is audible on for the first few seconds!
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 09 February 2008 at 12:30am | IP Logged
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Really? Hmm... Thanks for the info. That's good to know. (However, it was top 40 on Billboard's Singles Sales chart, as was her Human Nature.)
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Underground Dub
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| Posted: 16 March 2008 at 8:04pm | IP Logged
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Okay, so some things need clarification.
We must get to the bottom of this before the Warner Bros. era is capped off. *slams fist*
First, "Holiday". Just wanted to recap... Unlike the version found on the Japan CD Singles box, the US 45 mix not just a simple edit of the stereo LP version, but a different mix that is essentially an edit of the stereo LP version with a 9 second mono intro?
Second, what is the final word on the proper single versions for the following (not all top 40, but Madonna warrants this clarification across the board, lol): "Burning Up," "Don't Cry For Me Argentina," "Beautiful Stranger," "What It Feels Like For A Girl," "Hollywood," "Nothing Fails," "Love Profusion," "Hung Up," "Sorry," "Get Together" and "Jump".
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Topic: Madonna - The 45 Versions on CD
