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RoknRobnLoxley
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| Posted: 14 September 2018 at 6:26am | IP Logged
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Paul Haney wrote:
Chartman wrote:
Any word on "Record World Singles 1973-
1982 Part 2"? or "Cashbox Top 100 Charts" the fifties,
eighties, and nineties? |
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The Record World charts Volume 2 is pretty much ready to
go. Just have to talk Joel into printing it.
The other Cash Box decades are on hold as of now. We're
still missing a handful of print quality 1950s charts.
The 1980s book would probably sell okay, but the 1990s
probably not so much, seeing as how the chart ended in
1996 and the last couple of years they didn't print every
single week. |
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I've got a tricky solution for you, Paul. Publish the Cash Box 80s & 90s Top 100 chart books like this: one volume for 1980-1987, and one volume for 1988-1996. Each with an almost equal breakdown of years, and might be a greater incentive for the 80s fans to get both books. Might also be cheaper to publish 2 medium thick books this way rather than 1 fatter 80s and 1 thinner 90s? Take my money, please!
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 15 September 2018 at 1:27pm | IP Logged
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Paul Haney wrote:
EdisonLite wrote:
Paul, what are your #1 and #2 best
selling decades in terms of Hot 100 Chart books? |
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#1 - 1960s
#2 - 1970s
#3 - 1980s
#4 - 1950s
#5 - 1990s
#6 - 2000s
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Interesting how, with the exception of the displacement of the 1950s, that's almost in chronological order. Knowing your Billboard 1970s Hot 100 Charts books did so well (2nd place), have you thought about following up your Billboard Pop Albums Charts 1960s book with one for the 70s? I think there'd be enough sales for that, especially with '70s doing as well as it does.
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 15 September 2018 at 1:30pm | IP Logged
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Also, Paul, the last AC book is:
Billboard Top Adult Songs 1961-2006
It's been 12 years. What are the chances of doing one that goes to 2018 (or 2019)?
Also, are the only AC books that Record Research has done been the ones that go through 1993 and 2006? (Those are the only two books I have and I just wonder if there were any in between or before the 1961-1993 AC book).
Secondly, any chance for a "1970s Cream of the Pop" book? As you may have guessed I've been going through the Record Research website - deciding what books to order - and I'm seeing quite a few 60s/50s books that I hope will continue on with a '70s edition!
Edited by EdisonLite on 15 September 2018 at 3:04pm
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Paul Haney
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| Posted: 16 September 2018 at 6:14am | IP Logged
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EdisonLite wrote:
Also, Paul, the last AC book is:
Billboard Top Adult Songs 1961-2006
It's been 12 years. What are the chances of doing one
that goes to 2018 (or 2019)?
Also, are the only AC books that Record Research has done
been the ones that go through 1993 and 2006? (Those are
the only two books I have and I just wonder if there were
any in between or before the 1961-1993 AC book).
Secondly, any chance for a "1970s Cream of the Pop" book?
As you may have guessed I've been going through the
Record Research website - deciding what books to order -
and I'm seeing quite a few 60s/50s books that I hope will
continue on with a '70s edition! |
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Yes, those were the two "main" AC books that we did. As
you might have guessed, AC is not a big seller for us and
the "Cream Of The Pop" books did much worse, sales wise.
Ditto for the 1965-69 Album Chart book.
There are 2 main issues facing us these days.
1) There are only two of us employees running the whole
show at the office these days. Not only do I have do the
research, I also have to do all the book editing, along
with helping with the daily orders, going to the post
office to get the mail, answering e-mails, answering
phone calls, etc. I also do the filing of the orders and
I even clean the office and take out the garbage! Brent
is the other employee and he does all of the scanning of
the charts, along with the daily order book work, packing
and shipping the orders, and he does a lot of personal
stuff for Joel at his home. I'm surprised we're able to
get as many books published as we do.
2) We have to print what sells. The costs of publishing
the books is very expensive. We're just not making the
money that we were 20 years ago. Our e-books haven't
taken off like we'd hoped and our customers still want
the printed books. Gone are the days when we could spend
a lot of time and manpower on producing the niche books,
like AC and Rock Tracks. That's one of the reasons we
started publishing the other "Pop" books, like Record
World and Cash Box. The "Pop" books have always been and
will always be our biggest sellers. That's just the way
it is.
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PopArchivist
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| Posted: 16 September 2018 at 9:14am | IP Logged
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Paul,
The Top Pop Singles Book for 1955-2015 should be getting an update soon, right? I know you usually update every 3 years.
Also when did the Billboard Annual's start using the airplay hits in the 1990's that never charted as part of the rank? I remember older volumes just reflecting what hit the Hot 100 in each year. Was the decision to include it something Billboard wanted?
Again you are appreciated. Your work provides most of us board members an invaluable resource to build our collections. A big thank you!
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Paul Haney
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| Posted: 16 September 2018 at 11:54am | IP Logged
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PopArchivist wrote:
Paul,
The Top Pop Singles Book for 1955-2015 should be getting
an update soon, right? I know you usually update every 3
years.
Also when did the Billboard Annual's start using the
airplay hits in the 1990's that never charted as part of
the rank? I remember older volumes just reflecting what
hit the Hot 100 in each year. Was the decision to include
it something Billboard wanted?
Again you are appreciated. Your work provides most of us
board members an invaluable resource to build our
collections. A big thank you!
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Thanks for the kind words.
Yes, we are planning on a new Top Pop Singles 1955-2018
book. Hopefully will be out sometime next year.
Because there were so many HUGE airplay-only hits during
the 1990s, we decided to include them in the Pop Annual.
It was our decision alone, no input from Billboard.
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jebsib
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| Posted: 16 September 2018 at 12:25pm | IP Logged
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Those sales levels suggest that your main customer-base is over a certain age,
and probably decade-long loyal customers at that. More recent decades - not
representing that older generation's 'coming of age' - sell more poorly.
What is intriguing is that just a casual glance at prominent chart message-
boards and Billboard.com indicates that chart enthusiasts - those fans that
literally live & die by statistical chart ranks, facts and achievements - seem to
be in far greater numbers than ever before (even during the Casey Kasem
years when Billboard was on every newsstand). Thank the internet's ability to
cluster like-interests.
The potential appetite for the "Whitburn Model" is out there for this decade
and beyond… it just may not be connecting, or seen as valuable in the free
Wikipedia world.
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Chartman
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| Posted: 16 September 2018 at 3:41pm | IP Logged
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EdisonLite wrote:
Also, Paul, the last AC book is:
Billboard Top Adult Songs 1961-2006
It's been 12 years. What are the chances of doing one that goes to 2018 (or 2019)?
Also, are the only AC books that Record Research has done been the ones that go through 1993 and 2006? (Those are the only two books I have and I just wonder if there were any in between or before the 1961-1993 AC book).
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I have a spreadsheet listing all songs that made the Adult Contemporary and Adult Top 40 charts from their beginning until August 2018. Includes complete chart runs and the actual charts in excel format. It's not in book format but let me know if that's of interest to you.
Edited by Chartman on 16 September 2018 at 3:42pm
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Chartman
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PopArchivist wrote:
| Is the Top Pop Singles 1955-2018 due out next year? Privately starting to amaze at how much heavier and more pages each successive book is.... |
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I bought my first copy of this book in 1972 (called Top Pop Records) and have bought everyone since. My favorite edition was the 1955-2002 edition - even bought a clean new one for my collection. Funny thing about the 1955- 2015 edition. I thumbed through it when I first received it, put it on the shelf, and then never looked at it again. Not sure I would even buy the 2018 edition...but probably will because I don't want Paul out on the street!
Definitely need to change the title because the Hot 100 no longer represents "Pop" singles anymore. I always get upset when Billboard compares artist achievements on the current chart with those from the earlier decades. Really comparing apples to orangutans. (Drake's current charting achievements make him bigger than the 1964 Beatles). They do the same with C&W as their Hot Country Songs is the defacto chart they always refer to. "Meant To Be" #1 for 41 weeks - the greatest C&W song EVER!!! Their R&B charts have a similar story and my cup of tea, Top Rock Songs, is a joke.
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 16 September 2018 at 8:20pm | IP Logged
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Paul, thanks for the info, though too bad the "Cream of the Crop" and "Pop Albums Charts" books won't extend to the 70s.
Glad at least expanding to Cash Box & Record World books is doing well. We've talked about this but is an R&R Pop Singles book next if you expand to another magazine? (And any approximate time frame of when it would be released?)
Lastly, as far as your next Cash Box or Record World book, would you say Cash Box Top 100 Charts The 80s is the next likely candidate for release?
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 16 September 2018 at 8:49pm | IP Logged
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I just purchased the British Hit Singles (and Albums) 19th Edition book (the final one in the series), which goes up to 2006, and is like our main Whitburn Pop Singles book. I previously only had one volume - 9 - through 1992 (which only had Singles).
Does anyone know if there's a UK equivalent of our decades charts (hot 100 charts) books? I'd like to buy the equivalent one for the '70s, but I don't think the UK has the scope of books released that Joel Whitburn has done.
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Paul Haney
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| Posted: 17 September 2018 at 3:59am | IP Logged
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EdisonLite wrote:
Glad at least expanding to Cash Box &
Record World books is doing well. We've talked about this
but is an R&R Pop Singles book next if you expand to
another magazine? (And any approximate time frame of when
it would be released?)
Lastly, as far as your next Cash Box or Record World
book, would you say Cash Box Top 100 Charts The 80s is
the next likely candidate for release? |
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As I mentioned previously, Volume 2 of the Record World
charts is ready to go. Just a matter of timing. We need
to have sufficient funds to cover the printing costs. No
firm plans on the 1980s Cash Box charts at this time.
Stay tuned for the next "Pop" book release. Official
announcement is coming soon!
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RoknRobnLoxley
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| Posted: 17 September 2018 at 7:13am | IP Logged
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EdisonLite wrote:
I just purchased the British Hit Singles (and Albums) 19th Edition book (the final one in the series), which goes up to 2006, and is like our main Whitburn Pop Singles book. I previously only had one volume - 9 - through 1992 (which only had Singles).
Does anyone know if there's a UK equivalent of our decades charts (hot 100 charts) books? I'd like to buy the equivalent one for the '70s, but I don't think the UK has the scope of books released that Joel Whitburn has done. |
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I don't know of any UK 70's decade Top singles charts book, but you have 2 substitute options:
--The Virgin Book of Top 40 charts, available on Amazon UK and US, which covers 1960 thru 2008, but only lists the weekly charts thru position 40. Noting that the official charts didn't start until Feb 1969, and they are using the least accurate chart Record Retailer to represent the 60s instead of the much better accurate charts Melody Maker or NME.
--The Official UK Charts website has the full charts 70s and otherwise. For the 70s, it's a Top 50 chart thru April 1978, then it becomes a Top 75 thru 1979. But again, the official charts didn't start until Feb 1969. They use the NME charts 1952 to March 1960, a wise choice, but they use the Record Retailer charts March 1960 to Feb 1969, the worst possible choice.
Edited by RoknRobnLoxley on 17 September 2018 at 7:20am
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Chartman
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Paul failed to announce these two new books:
https://www.recordresearch.com/pop/cash_box_regional_h
its_1956.php
https://www.recordresearch.com/pop/cash_box_regional_h
its_1957.php
Looks like both of these books took ALOT of time to
research to come up with an additional 1,270 songs
from 1956 and 1,700 songs from 1957. Plans are to do
1958, 1959 and 1960 books also.
Guessing this was Joel's pet project and Paul's
eyesight probably suffered. Not sure how commercially
successful these will be (thinking low) but sadly I
will purchase neither. Maybe a compilation volume
1956-1960 though.
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Paul Haney
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| Posted: 25 September 2018 at 5:53am | IP Logged
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Yeah, didn't think the Cash Box 1956 and 1957 book would
be of too much interest here. I'm still working on
getting all the 1957 information entered. Even though
it's before my time too, I'm really learning A LOT about
some obscure titles and artists for sure!
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RoknRobnLoxley
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| Posted: 26 September 2018 at 5:04pm | IP Logged
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RoknRobnLoxley wrote:
EdisonLite wrote:
I just purchased the British Hit Singles (and Albums) 19th Edition book (the final one in the series), which goes up to 2006, and is like our main Whitburn Pop Singles book. I previously only had one volume - 9 - through 1992 (which only had Singles).
Does anyone know if there's a UK equivalent of our decades charts (hot 100 charts) books? I'd like to buy the equivalent one for the '70s, but I don't think the UK has the scope of books released that Joel Whitburn has done. |
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I don't know of any UK 70's decade Top singles charts book, but you have 2 substitute options:
--The Virgin Book of Top 40 charts, available on Amazon UK and US, which covers 1960 thru 2008, but only lists the weekly charts thru position 40. Noting that the official charts didn't start until Feb 1969, and they are using the least accurate chart Record Retailer to represent the 60s instead of the much better accurate charts Melody Maker or NME.
--The Official UK Charts website has the full charts 70s and otherwise. For the 70s, it's a Top 50 chart thru April 1978, then it becomes a Top 75 thru 1979. But again, the official charts didn't start until Feb 1969. They use the NME charts 1952 to March 1960, a wise choice, but they use the Record Retailer charts March 1960 to Feb 1969, the worst possible choice. |
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I forgot to mention, NME also published their own books of charts. Not by decades, but their singles charts book ran from 1952 to 1992, "40 Years of NME Charts". And their album charts book "30 Years of NME Album Charts". Both books were revised once. Used copies available on Amazon UK and maybe US. So you've got all your NME single and LP charts for the 70s contained here in these 2 volumes. The 70s singles chart only had 30 positions, the 70s albums chart began with 20, ended with 30 positions. So not as many positions as the 'official' charts for the 70s, but good to compare and contrast.
Edited by RoknRobnLoxley on 26 September 2018 at 5:07pm
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EdisonLite
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That sounds interesting. What does NME stand for? I assume this is the UK weekly charts. Do the peaks match up with UK's Guinness "British Hit Singles"?
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Paul Haney
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| Posted: 13 October 2018 at 5:41am | IP Logged
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EdisonLite wrote:
That sounds interesting. What does NME
stand for? I assume this is the UK weekly charts. Do the
peaks match up with UK's Guinness "British Hit Singles"?
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NME = New Musical Express
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RoknRobnLoxley
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EdisonLite wrote:
| That sounds interesting. What does NME stand for? I assume this is the UK weekly charts. Do the peaks match up with UK's Guinness "British Hit Singles"? |
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The NME singles chart peaks only agree with the Guinness books for 1952 to March 1960. The NME album chart peaks do not agree at any time with the Guinness peaks.
For the singles charts, Guinness used NME charts 1952-Mar 1960, Record Retailer charts Mar 1960-Feb 1969, and from then on the new national sales based BMRB chart which eventually got renamed to what is now the Official Charts.
For the album charts, Guinness did not use NME. Instead, they used the Record Mirror charts 1956-1958, Melody Maker charts 1958-Mar 1960, Record Retailer charts Mar 1960-Feb 1969, then the new national sales based BMRB chart which eventually got renamed as the Official Charts. NME album charts were produced from 1962 to 1988, when they ceased compiling their own chart and started carrying the MRIB album chart.
With my usual disclaimer, there were no 'official' UK singles charts before Feb 1969. There were 5 major independent weekly music paper charts (NME, Record Mirror, Melody Maker, Disc, Record Retailer) plus the BBC average chart. Starting in the early 70s, 4 different UK chart books/series were published that documented the UK singles charts. They all used different combinations of the NME, Record Mirror, and Record Retailer charts, NONE of them were in agreement as to what to use for the 50s & 60s. Chart research, as done by Alan Smith and others, has determined that NME is the best/most representative chart for the 50s, and Melody Maker for the 60s. That is to say, they sampled the most record shops for their data, and agreed with the other charts of the day the most often. Record Retailer was the worst chart to use for the 60s as Guinness and the Official Charts have done, as it was the least followed, least accurate, had the highest volatility, sampled the fewest record shops, and disagreed the most often with the other charts of the day. It is interesting to note that the Guinness books did not claim Record Retailer as 'official' for the 60s, but rather they only listed what charts they were using for their books. And on top of that, the Official Charts company did not start proclaiming Record Retailer was 'official' for the 60s until after 2001. They decided to rewrite history to suit their means, proclaiming something that was not true, and thus confusing millions of Brits.
The 2 best examples to illustrate how bad Record Retailer was for the 60s. In 1963, The Beatles 'Please Please Me' peaked at #1 on the NME, Melody Maker, and Disc charts for 2 weeks each, and for 3 weeks on the BBC average chart. Based on the sampling of 270 UK record shops. On the Record Retailer chart, it peaked at #2, based on a sampling of 30 record shops. Which is to be believed, #1 from 270 shops, or #2 from 30 shops? Same thing for The Rolling Stones '19th Nervous Breakdown', #1 for 3 weeks on NME, Melody Maker, Disc, and the BBC average, based on 500 record shops in 1966. On the Record Retailer chart, it peaked at #2 based on 80 record shops. Which is to be believed, #1 from 500 shops, or #2 from 80 shops?
So despite what the Guinness books and the Official Charts website say, don't believe the false rewritten history. Record Retailer was not 'official' for the 60s, there was no national sales based chart until Feb 1969. It might be 'official' for the Official Charts Co, but it was not 'official' for the UK, no way no how.
For an exhaustive report on the UK charts of the 50s & 60s, check out this article by UK chart expert Alan Smith, who researched this information for years, interviewing the people who put the various charts together:
https://www.ukmix.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=103263
Edited by RoknRobnLoxley on 13 October 2018 at 7:08am
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EdisonLite
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Thanks for the info. My biggest interest is for the '70s and '80s, so if I find this book, it will be interesting to see where the songs peaked on the UK charts in that 20 year period vs. the Guiness Book peaks, which are the only peaks I currently know of for UK singles from that period.
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Chart Books - $20 off
