| Author |
|
Scanner
MusicFan
Joined: 14 August 2019
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 215
|
| Posted: 23 September 2019 at 6:12pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Once Billboard converted its Hot 100 methodology from
tracking records to songs, it became more common for
country songs to chart and even reach the Hot 100's
Top 40 with airplay only at country radio. For
example, just look at how many times Tim McGraw has
reached the Top 40 of the Hot 100 since 1999 with only
one of his country hits, "Live Like You Were Dying,"
getting any Pop airplay.
Prior to 1998, there were many country songs that
reached or bubbled under the Hot 100. How many of
these songs truly crossed over or did they chart just
based on their sales? Usually, airplay at AC was a
good indicator a song was crossing over. But, some of
the biggest country hits of the 1970's such as "Satin
Sheets" (No. 26) and "Heaven's Just A Sin Away" (No.
47) never charted AC.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Paul Haney
MusicFan
Joined: 01 April 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1743
|
| Posted: 24 September 2019 at 4:08am | IP Logged
|
|
|
For this question, I like to consult the Radio & Records
Top Pop Hits book.
During the 1970s, crossover was fairly common. Artists
like Glen Campbell, John Denver, Kenny Rogers and Ronnie
Milsap did it a lot. But a lot of their music could also
be considered AC. The more "traditional" acts like Merle
Haggard and Loretta Lynn never really did it.
After the Urban Cowboy craze in the early 1980s, true
Country crossovers were very few and far between.
There's only a few that I can think of post 1984.
"I'll Still Be Loving You" by Restless Heart managed to
get to #34 on R&R in 1987.
"Achy Breaky Heart" by Billy Ray Cyrus got to #27 in
1992.
Shania Twain had a few crossover hits in 1998-99.
"I Hope You Dance" by Lee Ann Womack got to #24 in 2001.
"You'll Think Of Me" by Keith Urban got to #32 in 2005.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
aaronk
Admin Group
Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6513
|
| Posted: 24 September 2019 at 8:48am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I asked a similar question in another thread (1999 and later), in case
anyone is interested in reading the replies there:
http://www.top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9117
Edited by aaronk on 24 September 2019 at 8:51am
__________________
Aaron Kannowski
Uptown Sound
91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Scanner
MusicFan
Joined: 14 August 2019
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 215
|
| Posted: 24 September 2019 at 10:27am | IP Logged
|
|
|
It's ironic that you replied, Paul - it's one of the
Hot 100 books that inspired my question! The songs
you cited were obvious crossovers that charted AC and,
since the 90's, at Pop/Top 40 radio as well. What
about country songs that made or bubbled under the Hot
100 without any clear crossover activity? For example,
Ronnie Milsap had several crossover hits, but also
charted with songs like "Please Don't Tell Me How The
Story Ends" and "Cowboys And Clowns" on the Hot 100 or
Bubbling Under, but nowhere else other than country.
Same with Dolly Parton whose "Light Of A Clear Blue
Morning" hit the Hot 100, but no other chart except
Country. Were songs like these crossing over or just
selling well enough to register on the Hot
100/Bubbling Under charts?
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Paul Haney
MusicFan
Joined: 01 April 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1743
|
| Posted: 24 September 2019 at 11:15am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I guess I misunderstood your question.
Yeah, I'd say most of those were strictly sales-driven.
Although there were some reporting Top 40 stations that
were more apt to give a big Country hit a shot at some
airplay.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
AutumnAarilyn
MusicFan
Joined: 22 August 2019
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 181
|
| Posted: 24 September 2019 at 4:09pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Back in the early 80's, I was quite young but do
remember WALL, our local Top 40/AC leaning station
played tons of country crossover like Kenny Rogers. When
they recently revived the station, they left that
chapter out along with some big hits that should be left
behind by artists like Rick Dees, Debbie Boone, and
Shaun Cassidy. This market is about 70 miles west of New
York City.
Edited by AutumnAarilyn on 24 September 2019 at 4:11pm
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
PopArchivist
MusicFan
Joined: 30 June 2018
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1524
|
| Posted: 24 September 2019 at 9:50pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
AutumnAarilyn wrote:
Back in the early 80's, I was quite young but do
remember WALL, our local Top 40/AC leaning station
played tons of country crossover like Kenny Rogers. When
they recently revived the station, they left that
chapter out along with some big hits that should be left
behind by artists like Rick Dees, Debbie Boone, and
Shaun Cassidy. This market is about 70 miles west of New
York City. |
|
|
Autumn,
Did you grow up in NYC? I always heard Kenny alongside a lot of popular pop during the 80's.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Paul C
MusicFan
Joined: 23 October 2006
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 789
|
| Posted: 27 September 2019 at 1:09pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Another factor to keep in mind is that during the time that the Hot 100
was based on airplay and sales data supplied to Billboard by radio
stations and retailers (that is, prior to late 1991, when Billboard started
to use BDS and Soundscan data), for a record to appear on the Hot
100, at least ten stations on the Hot 100 ‘reporting panel’, all of whom
at the time were ‘Top 40/CHR’ stations, had to report that they were
playing the record. That is why a country or R&B record could sell
hundreds of thousands of copies and not chart on the Hot 100.
For the retail component of the data used to tabulate the Hot 100, sales
data from retailers that specialized in country, R&B, or any other genre
was not used. Prior to late 1991, country songs that appeared on the
Hot 100 were legitimate crossover hits.
All that changed in late 1991, when the minimum ‘pop’ airplay
requirement was dropped and country records started to appear on the
Hot 100 solely from sales. Airplay data from country stations was not
incorporated into the Hot 100 until late 1998, when even more country
songs started appearing on the Hot 100.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
AutumnAarilyn
MusicFan
Joined: 22 August 2019
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 181
|
| Posted: 27 September 2019 at 7:02pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Hey PopArchivist:
I grew up in the outer ring suburbs of NYC but was fully
aware of what got played chiefly on Black radio in NYC.
Listening to the radio was a daily ritual in the 80s and
early 90s. Billboard accurately represented what was
being played as back then they had a feel for what songs
crossed over to what chart.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
AndrewChouffi
MusicFan
Joined: 24 September 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1092
|
| Posted: 28 September 2019 at 5:56am | IP Logged
|
|
|
To Paul C:
Very interesting paragraph here:
"Another factor to keep in mind is that during the time that the Hot 100
was based on airplay and sales data supplied to Billboard by radio
stations and retailers (that is, prior to late 1991, when Billboard started
to use BDS and Soundscan data), for a record to appear on the Hot
100, at least ten stations on the Hot 100 ‘reporting panel’, all of whom
at the time were ‘Top 40/CHR’ stations, had to report that they were
playing the record. That is why a country or R&B record could sell
hundreds of thousands of copies and not chart on the Hot 100."
I never knew that!!
I've been a subscriber to Billboard since about 1976 and I never recall reading that - But looking back it seems like it could have very well been true!
Do you, or anyone else out there for that matter have any
"documentation" of that minimum ten stations to hit the Hot 100, or was it kept underground?
That really explains why some big sellers never charted on the Hot 100 at all - which I never could figure out as I was growing up.
Comments are welcome from everybody...
Thanks!
Andy
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
KentT
MusicFan
Joined: 25 May 2008
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 650
|
| Posted: 28 September 2019 at 6:15am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Also consider this situation. In the USA Southeast, quite
a few Top 40 stations did program a Country record or two
from pop friendly artists. To cater to local tastes. And
also some Country stations would program Country friendly
pop hits likewise.
__________________
I turn up the good and turn down the bad!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
jebsib
MusicFan
Joined: 06 April 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 173
|
| Posted: 28 September 2019 at 7:02am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Also, Country was the first genre to really cut back on physical mass merchant
retail singles, an essential Hot 100 component. No availability, no chart entry.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
torcan
MusicFan
Joined: 23 June 2006
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 269
|
| Posted: 28 September 2019 at 9:12am | IP Logged
|
|
|
AndrewChouffi wrote:
Do you, or anyone else out there for that matter have
any
"documentation" of that minimum ten stations to hit
the Hot 100, or was it kept underground?
That really explains why some big sellers never
charted on the Hot 100 at all - which I never could
figure out as I was growing up.
|
|
|
What Paul said is correct. Also, in order to chart, a
record had to have a minimum no. of "points".
Billboard converted all the sales and airplay data
into points, and if a record didn't meet the minimum
criteria, it couldn't chart even if it had the 10
stations.
This explains why, through much of the '80s, records
never came in at the very bottom of the chart. They
set the minimum points criteria much higher than
records sitting at 100, 99, etc. would typically have.
Much of this was documented (I think in a late '80s
issue, when Michael Ellis ran the charts). They had
an insert explaining exactly how it was compiled.
Too bad they couldn't have had another when they
switched in Nov 1991, because things were much
different after that date.
Edited by torcan on 28 September 2019 at 9:13am
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Paul C
MusicFan
Joined: 23 October 2006
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 789
|
| Posted: 28 September 2019 at 10:48am | IP Logged
|
|
|
torcan wrote:
Much of this was documented (I think in a late '80s
issue, when Michael Ellis ran the charts). They had
an insert explaining exactly how it was compiled.
|
|
|
It is indeed this insert that is the source of the info I posted. It was a 12-page insert titled, "How We Track The Hits", and it outlined in considerable detail the methodologies used in compiling the various charts. I still have the insert but not the issue in which it came. Since the insert is not dated, I don't know the date of the issue of Billboard in which it was included. One of the charts included was the Modern Rock chart, which first appeared in the September 10, 1988, issue. When the insert was produced, the country chart was already an airplay-only chart but was not yet using BDS data, which it began doing on January 20, 1990. So this insert dates from sometime between September 10, 1988, and January 20, 1990.
The insert states that in order for a record to chart on the Hot 100, at least ten of the 240 'reporting stations' had to report playing it, and it had to have at least 125 'airplay points'.
The R&B chart (then still called the 'black' chart) had a similar rule. In order to chart, of the 102 reporting stations, at least ten had to report playing it and there was likewise a minimum 'airplay points' requirement.
Because the country chart was already an airplay-only chart, it had no such rule.
Edited by Paul C on 28 September 2019 at 10:50am
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
AndrewChouffi
MusicFan
Joined: 24 September 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1092
|
| Posted: 28 September 2019 at 12:16pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Thanks for all the info!
If anyone out there knows which issue it appeared in please let me know.
I have a lot of old Billboard stored, but they are not in very good order, so an issue date would save me quite a bit of rummaging...
Edit to add: I just did a Google search - americanradiohistory seems to have it archived! The second page has an intro by Director Of Research Marty Feely.
Is this what everyone is referring to?
Thank you.
Andy
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Paul C
MusicFan
Joined: 23 October 2006
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 789
|
| Posted: 28 September 2019 at 12:29pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Yes, that’s it!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
aaronk
Admin Group
Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6513
|
| Posted: 28 September 2019 at 1:14pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Very interesting info, gentlemen!
Paul (Haney), had Joel ever considered adding in a [SALES] indicator
in his pop books, similar to the [AIR] symbol? These would obviously
be songs that made the Hot 100 sales chart but did not make the
overall Hot 100 chart. Is there such a resource (even if only fan made)
that lists those hits?
__________________
Aaron Kannowski
Uptown Sound
91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Paul Haney
MusicFan
Joined: 01 April 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1743
|
| Posted: 29 September 2019 at 4:03am | IP Logged
|
|
|
aaronk wrote:
Very interesting info, gentlemen!
Paul (Haney), had Joel ever considered adding in a
[SALES] indicator
in his pop books, similar to the [AIR] symbol? These
would obviously
be songs that made the Hot 100 sales chart but did not
make the
overall Hot 100 chart. Is there such a resource (even if
only fan made)
that lists those hits? |
|
|
Aaron, we did show "sales only" hits for a few editions
of the Top Pop Singles book (the 1955-2002 edition was
the last to show them and the 2003 Music Yearbook also
had them). We did list all the #1 Sales-only hits in the
1955-2012 edition. However, Joel decided to take them
out completely once the sales chart started consisting of
obscure rap titles, some of which were literally being
sold out of the trunks of the artists cars! Billboard
finally quit compiling that chart a few years ago.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
jebsib
MusicFan
Joined: 06 April 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 173
|
| Posted: 29 September 2019 at 10:44am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I believe that insert was in the April 9, 1988 issue.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
AndrewChouffi
MusicFan
Joined: 24 September 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1092
|
| Posted: 29 September 2019 at 3:17pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Thanks for the info Jebsib and Paul C!
Andy
Edited by AndrewChouffi on 29 September 2019 at 3:18pm
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Active Topics 
Memberlist 
Search 
Help
Register 
Login
Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Country on the Hot 100 (1998 and Prior)
