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jimct
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| Posted: 06 June 2006 at 11:43pm | IP Logged
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Pat's book states the promo 45 lists times of (4:48) and (3:57), but both sides actually run (5:00). My promo 45 is not like this. My listed (4:48) side, shown as "Side A", does actually run (5:00)(Deadwax PB-14387-A), but my listed (3:57) side, shown as "Side 1" and specifying (Edited Version), actually runs (4:02). Deadwax PB-14387-C.
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Pat Downey
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| Posted: 07 June 2006 at 6:14am | IP Logged
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Wow here is yet another bizarre story from the world of dj promos. There really are two different pressings of this dj 45 as I have copies that state (3:57) but run (5:00) and another that states (3:57) and runs (4:02)! The matrix number on the one that runs (5:00) is PB-14387-C but there is an "A" superimposed over the "C". I have an extra copy of this mispressed dj 45 if you would like a copy Jim.
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jimct
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Pat, I'd love your spare "dual 5:00" version promo 45. Thanks! Finally starting to go through your want list - I'm discovering that my "spares" aren't NEARLY as organized and categorized as my primary "library" copies, but I'm tryin' to track them down for you, Mr. Downey!
Edited by jimct on 07 June 2006 at 6:55am
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80smusicfreak
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Jim & Pat:
Just for the record, in addition to correcting that
mispressed dj 45, RCA went even one step further w/
"Dreamtime". Believe it or not, even though it was only
the Summer of '86, the label also made a promo (dj) CD
single for that one! It's definitely one of the first
promo CD singles ever issued here in the U.S. (perhaps
THE first??? - if anyone can cite an earlier example, I'd
be curious), and I found one during my record-store
travels a few years ago. (I'm a long-time H&O fan, and
although "Dreamtime" was never one of my favorites, I
bought it simply because I knew how old & rare it was for
a promo CD single, and not so much because it contained
the single version[s].) Unfortunately, it's buried away
somewhere in my closet at the moment, but I'm pretty sure
it includes both the (5:00) and (4:02) versions you guys
describe above. Label & no. is RCA 14386-2-RDJ. (And if
you're wondering where I got that from since I don't have
the CD handy, it's actually documented in Gregory
Cooper's now out-of-print 1998 catalog, "Collectible
Compact Disc Price Guide 2", although I notice the
"14386" catalog no. actually matches the vinyl promo 12"
single, not the 45.)
At any rate, the 10th edition of Pat's book indicates
that only the (4:44) "LP length" version of "Dreamtime"
has ever been issued on a commercial CD in the U.S., so
that promo definitely includes a single version or two
unavailable elsewhere on CD...
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elcoleccionista
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| Posted: 07 June 2006 at 5:06pm | IP Logged
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I remember seeing that promo CD on Ebay last year and was quite surprised of its existence.
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jimct
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| Posted: 07 June 2006 at 6:07pm | IP Logged
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Thanks for the memory jogger, 80smusicfreak! I forgot I even HAD a 1986 promo CD singles section. I have THREE 1986 Top 40 BB hits on promo CD single. "Dreamtime" (CR-14386), was the SECOND of them to arrive, in August '86. It has just one version, with a listed run time (4:48), and an actual run time of (5:00). Our station had no use for the promo; we already knew a (4:02) version was included on the promo 45. We were unpleasantly surprised RCA didn't include that short version on the promo CD single. Perhaps Pat's "overwritten C to A" in the deadwax of his (5:00) on both sides promo 45 was an RCA attempt to make that (4:02) short promo 45 version disappear, and to "re-vitalize" their "newfangled service to radio", the promo CD single? Stranger things have happened. FYI: The EARLIEST Top 40 hit on a promo CD single that we ever received: 38 Special-"Like No Other Night" (CD 17378), in May '86. The 3rd and last 1986 Top 40 hit on a promo CD single? OMD-"(Forever) Live And Die" (CD 17422), in September. A&M put out promo CD singles #1 & #3; RCA #2, and all 3 contained just ONE version. We even actually received ONE PROMO cassette into the station! Any guesses? Actually, a few months LATER, in March of 1987, (the now, apparently cutting-edge) A&M records again, sent us a 45 AND cassette sealed "Radio-Take Your Pick" 2-pack for Bryan Adams "Heat Of The Night." What was A&M thinking? Cassettes for radio?? Oh, yeah, casettes make "carting up" music a snap!@#%&! I still have that sealed copy. Wonder what it would fetch on eBay???
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elcoleccionista
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| Posted: 07 June 2006 at 6:11pm | IP Logged
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I'm happier each day that I have become a member of this forum. That's one juicy post Jim, thanks!
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Grant
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| Posted: 07 June 2006 at 7:27pm | IP Logged
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I have nothing to add here except that I think it's a fine song! I love it!
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cmmmbase
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| Posted: 07 June 2006 at 8:32pm | IP Logged
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I Wonder how many promo CD singles there were that first year (1986)? I have the Police's remake of their own "Don't Stand So Close To Me" on a Promo CD single. Since it only made #46 (#35 sales), it obviously is outside the scope of this forum...
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elcoleccionista
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| Posted: 08 June 2006 at 7:08am | IP Logged
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Chuck, I have always loved that '86 version.
If interested, there is a 5.1 DTS mix of it on the "Every Breath You Take: The DVD" compilation (it was not included on the DTS CD versions of this release).
What is the promo's track listing?
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cmmmbase
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| Posted: 08 June 2006 at 11:46am | IP Logged
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the tracklisting for the promo CD of "Don't Stand So Close To Me '86" (A&M 17435) is simply the album version - listed at 4:48.
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elcoleccionista
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| Posted: 08 June 2006 at 12:02pm | IP Logged
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Thanks, still a gem!
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80smusicfreak
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| Posted: 09 June 2006 at 11:15am | IP Logged
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jimct wrote:
Thanks for the memory jogger,
80smusicfreak! I forgot I even HAD a 1986 promo CD
singles section. I have THREE 1986 Top 40 BB hits on
promo CD single. "Dreamtime" (CR-14386), was the SECOND
of them to arrive, in August '86. It has just one
version, with a listed run time (4:48), and an actual run
time of (5:00). Our station had no use for the promo; we
already knew a (4:02) version was included on the promo
45. We were unpleasantly surprised RCA didn't include
that short version on the promo CD single. Perhaps Pat's
"overwritten C to A" in the deadwax of his (5:00) on both
sides promo 45 was an RCA attempt to make that (4:02)
short promo 45 version disappear, and to "re-vitalize"
their "newfangled service to radio", the promo CD single?
Stranger things have happened. |
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It definitely sounds like RCA was trying to bury that
short (4:02) edit of "Dreamtime", but I doubt it had
anything to do w/ the fact that they'd also decided to
issue a promo CD single for it. You say your copy has the
same catalog no., but w/ a "CR-" prefix instead of a
"-2-RDJ" suffix, which may make it different from mine.
That's because I could swear that mine matched the no. in
Cooper's book - suffix and all - when I checked right
after I found it. I just can't remember if mine has only
the full (5:00) version (like yours) or both, as the book
doesn't go so far as to give track listings and timings.
Guess I may need to do some serious digging around my
closet, lol...
Quote:
FYI: The EARLIEST Top 40 hit on a promo CD single
that we ever received: 38 Special-"Like No Other Night"
(CD 17378), in May '86. The 3rd and last 1986 Top 40 hit
on a promo CD single? OMD-"(Forever) Live And Die" (CD
17422), in September. A&M put out promo CD singles #1 &
#3; RCA #2, and all 3 contained just ONE version.
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Very cool - thanks for the info! Another quick check of
Cooper's book shows all three other titles are listed
there as well (counting the contribution from cmmmbase).
Value for Mint copies of each back in 1998 (according to
Cooper), was $15.00, $7.00, and $25.00 for those titles
by 38 Special, O.M.D., and The Police, respectively, w/
Hall's fetching a mere $6.00. Cooper does state that 1986
was the first year that promo CD singles were issued here
in the U.S., but doesn't specify what the very first
title was. However, that being said, I know that 38
Special isn't any more collectible than DH, so the $15
value on that one (vs. only $6 for Hall) suggests to me
you may have something. :-) I'm sure our list for 1986 is
far from complete, too - I'd wager there were at least a
dozen or two (regardless of eventual chart popularity),
w/o trying to scan all 500+ pages of Cooper's book, and
no doubt they hadn't all yet been documented by him
nearly 10 years ago, anyway...
Quote:
We even actually received ONE PROMO cassette into
the station! Any guesses? Actually, a few months LATER,
in March of 1987, (the now, apparently cutting-edge) A&M
records again, sent us a 45 AND cassette sealed
"Radio-Take Your Pick" 2-pack for Bryan Adams "Heat Of
The Night." What was A&M thinking? Cassettes for radio??
Oh, yeah, casettes make "carting up" music a snap!@#%&! I
still have that sealed copy. Wonder what it would fetch
on eBay??? |
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Believe it or not, your "March of 1987" clue was all I
needed to guess that first promo cassette! May I again
contribute to the history refresher here??? :-) I've
admittedly never been in radio, but it sounds like
somebody didn't read their station's copy of "Billboard"
that week, lol. So to quote, "what was A&M thinking" when
they sent you guys that promo for "Heat of the Night"???
Simple. By early '87, cassettes were by far the dominant
music format, w/ over 70% of the album market in the U.S.
(having passed the vinyl LP in market share back in '83,
and CDs still a minor blip). At that time, the vinyl
single was also sinking quickly, so the major labels knew
that if it was to be saved, it was FINALLY time to move
the single into the cassette era, but this time it had to
be a unified effort, and w/ a big push. And yes, it was
"Heat of the Night" that launched the golden age of the
cassette single at retail - I still have that old issue
of "Billboard" telling all about it, as I've been reading
the magazine religiously since '83... :-)
Obviously, A&M sent that cassette single (along w/ the
45) to radio stations as both an introduction and a
reminder, and not so much w/ the thought that you guys
would actually try to PLAY it, lol. If your "promo"
cassette for "Heat of the Night" came in an unusual red
plastic case w/ a rather plain black & white artist/title
label pasted to the outside of it, it's identical to the
commercial version that hit store shelves, as I have that
one, too. :-) I'd estimate its value at about $5.00...
Just as you appear to possess an extraordinary collection
of promo 45s, I happen to own what I dare say is probably
the most extensive collection of pre-1987 cassette
singles and maxi-singles (both promo and commercial) -
and knowledge of the cassette format in general. Now if
you look in Joel Whitburn's "Top Pop Singles" book,
you'll see he claims in Bryan Adams' entry under "Heat of
the Night" that the song was "the first '45' also issued
as a cassette single". Frankly, that always makes me
laugh, because it's fa-a-ar from true. (Is Paul Haney
reading???) In fact, the cassette single was first
introduced in the U.S. in the late '60s, albeit for only
a few select titles, and those are certainly mega-rare
today. They began springing up again in the early '80s,
when labels realized the cassette was about to overtake
the vinyl LP in album sales, and thought that singles in
tape form should again be tested as a viable alternative.
However, those releases were only sporadic, and it wasn't
until 1986 that the industry here decided to gather
around the table and give them a very serious (and
unified) push, but yes, it was the Adams tune that was
selected to start the landslide in early '87...
And indeed it worked - when the final numbers for singles
sales for all of 1987 arrived in early '88, the cassette
single actually BEAT the vinyl 45 that first year out
(despite not being introduced till March of that year, as
you correctly state when your Adams promo arrived), and
never looked back. So yes, in a way, A&M truly WAS
cutting-edge! But sadly, the majors saw those numbers and
were so shocked at how quickly cassette singles had
overtaken vinyl 45s, that they began that whole "singles
sales must be cannibalizing album sales" BS. Thus,
starting w/ Martika's "Toy Soldiers" in the Summer of
'89, the majors began deleting select cassette singles
from stores before the songs had even fallen off the pop
chart, w/ the hopes that folks would shell out the extra
$$$ for the entire album instead. That, in turn,
eventually led to some huge airplay hits not even being
released as commercial singles starting in early '91 (see
Whitburn's "Pop Annual"). Of course, both of those
practices ultimately stunted the single's comeback in the
marketplace - and alas, some 15 years later, the physical
single has become practically non-existent in the U.S.,
in any format (*sigh*)...
This concludes today's lesson...
:-)
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elcoleccionista
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| Posted: 09 June 2006 at 11:43am | IP Logged
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An extra long post from an 80's music freak...
I LOVED IT FROM START TO END!
This gets more entertaining by the hour, thank you Pat and all members for this great forum : )
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jimct
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| Posted: 09 June 2006 at 11:54am | IP Logged
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80smusicfreak, your informative cassette thesis has now earned you the official title of "Dr. Cassette!" I didn't even know there WERE cassette collectors or cassette experts! When that's all I could buy for singles, I stopped buying! You're right, upon careful inspection. It was that "red cassette, stock 45, just FYI" on "Heat Of The Night." But forgive me for "not reading Billboard" that week - radio has always used "Radio & Records" as the "trade magazine of choice." And we get pretty busy at times. As for possibly "burying the Daryl Hall (4:02) version to pump up the promo CD single" (and I'll be anxious to see details on yours when it turns up, FYI,) I think our RCA rep at the time (John Boulos? - it gets blurry after a while) actually told ME that - it wasn't speculation - I have no use for rumor. I wouldn't have known something like that unless an RCA employee gave me that "insight" when I asked him why no short version appeared on the promo CD single (we would've played it off of that.) I promise you , FEW business operations are as INCREDIBLY political as record companies; someone, no doubt, stuck their neck out for that promo CD single, and wanted to keep it from getting "chopped off." Thank goodness my "timelines" passed muster, 80smusicfreak. I know, if you're wrong on this Board, they (rightfully) toss you into the meat grinder! Wonderful info - and thanks for it.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 09 June 2006 at 10:34pm | IP Logged
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I'd also like to add that the (4:02) version is not simply an edit of the LP or 45 version. There's a mix difference on the short promo version near the end of the song.
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Paul Haney
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80smusicfreak wrote:
| Now if you look in Joel Whitburn's "Top Pop Singles" book, you'll see he claims in Bryan Adams' entry under "Heat of the Night" that the song was "the first '45' also issued as a cassette single". Frankly, that always makes me laugh, because it's fa-a-ar from true. (Is Paul Haney reading???) |
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Yes, I'm reading! Perhaps that note should be re-worded to "the first regularly issued cassette single"
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 10 June 2006 at 11:37am | IP Logged
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Those are some fascinating posts, 80smusicfreak! So... don't keep us waiting. What WERE the few cassette singles that were released in the late '60s?
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elcoleccionista
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| Posted: 10 June 2006 at 2:01pm | IP Logged
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80smusicfreak wrote:
| ...Cooper does state that 1986 was the first year that promo CD singles were issued here in the U.S... |
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I always hated how very late the cd single format was introduced in the USA in both its promo and commercial forms.
Mainly because it resulted in having no choice other than a 7" single for many of my dearest 80's remix edits : D
I'm mostly resentful : p with Warner for not having released any of Madonna's singles from the "True Blue" album on CD, commercial or promo.
That would only happen in 1989 with the "Like A Prayer" single (CD3 commercial, CD5 promo).
Her recently inaugurated commercial CD single catalog would be interrupted for almost a year, since none of the following singles saw a commercial CD single release, until the last single off that album, "Keep It Together" did.
1) Now, which was the very first promo cd single by any artist Warner put out? If memory serves well I remember a promo CD for Fleetwood Mac's "Big Love", so could 1987 be Warner's inaugural year? Proud promo CD recipients from the heyday, step forward please! : D
2) Also, there is a strange detail on the back insert of two early Warner promo CD's I have. They both state 1988, but neither single was released that year: Electronic's "Getting Away With It" and Madonna's "Keep It Together" were both released in 1990, and while it can be argued that the latter was recorded in 1989 (the disc states this year), it still does not coincide wit the 1988 on the back inserts. Just a minor glitch, but thought I'd mention it.
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jimct
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| Posted: 10 June 2006 at 3:11pm | IP Logged
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I do show "Big Love" (PRO-CD-2710) being the earliest Hot 100 entry by WB on a promo CD single. But within the same family of labels, on Geffen, I have a (PRO-CD-2680) promo CD single for Peter Gabriel/Kate Bush's "Don't Give Up." I suppose it's possible that 30 stiff promo CD single releases could've been issued by WB & Co. (the #s between 2680 & 2710) during this time, but I cannot confirm anything in that regard.
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Daryl Hall-"Dreamtime"
