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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 13 July 2006 at 9:42pm | IP Logged
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A while back on the "'DJ Edits' still at large" thread, I inquired for information regarding short radio edits that might exist for "Dreamin'" by Vanessa Williams. Johann reported that his commercial 12" single contains two edits: "Radio Edit With Intro" and "Radio Edit Without Intro". Has anyone been able to confirm these radio edits on a promo single release? If so, what are the actual and printed run times? (Jim, I have a sneaking hunch you just might be able to help us with this one! ;-)
Edited by Todd Ireland on 13 July 2006 at 9:43pm
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jimct
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| Posted: 14 July 2006 at 12:24am | IP Logged
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Todd: My promo is not where it is supposed to be; as Aaron knows, they usually turn up in a day or two. I will post an update as soon as the "happy reunion" occurs. A teaser until I locate it, though. For some reason, EXACTLY 4:00 is burned into my head for the DJ 45 time. Without double-checking (I put the "forklift" away for the night!) as I recall, this was one of the last Top 10 hit singles that was NOT issued as a promo CD single. We did play the DJ edit off a Hitmakers Disc, however.
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elcoleccionista
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| Posted: 14 July 2006 at 6:57am | IP Logged
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Morning Todd & Jim!
Here is the exact info I couldn't provide back then since I was at work (times are as listed).
Vanessa Williams - Dreamin' (871 079-1)
Side A
Album Version (5:25)
Edit With Vocal Intro (4:15)
Side B
Edit (4:13)
Instrumental (5:25)
The only difference between the two edits is the one on Side B is missing the acapella intro "Now I'm living in the middle of a dream, a dream with a little bit of fantasy".
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 14 July 2006 at 1:00pm | IP Logged
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Thanks for the info, Johann! Hopefully Jim will be successful in tracking down his promo 45 copy so that we can determine what was on that as well.
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cmmmbase
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| Posted: 17 July 2006 at 6:55pm | IP Logged
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The promo 45 that I have has:
one side - album version (5:25)
other side - edit (4:13)
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jimct
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| Posted: 17 July 2006 at 6:59pm | IP Logged
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Thanks, Chuck! I've been tearing my place apart for days, trying to locate my mis-filed promo 45....still no luck. I really appreciate your help on this one.
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 02 August 2006 at 10:59pm | IP Logged
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It turns out Jim's DJ 45 copy of "Dreamin'" has turned up! He reports that the short edit side actually runs 4:21. Therefore, the database should indicate that DJ copies of this 45 run (5:25) and (4:21), not (4:13) as stated on the record label.
Thanks, Jim, for the update!
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 02 January 2008 at 5:29pm | IP Logged
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Pat:
I thought I'd bump this thread back to the forefront because it doesn't look like the database was ever updated with Jim and Chuck/cmmmbase's DJ 45 info.
By the way, does anyone have commercial single run time info for "Dreamin'"? Is it identical to the album version?
Edited by Todd Ireland on 02 January 2008 at 5:31pm
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edtop40
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| Posted: 28 September 2008 at 9:35am | IP Logged
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my commercial cassingle issued as wing 871078 states on the cassingles face a run time of 5:25 and does indeed run that length and is identical to all the 5:25 versions in the db......my commercial vinyl 45 also states a run time of 5:25 and also runs that length.....my promo vinyl 45 issued as wing 871078-7 DJ states that it has the "edit" version on one side with a listed run time of 4:13 (actually runs 4:21) and the "album version" on the other side with a listed run time of 5:25...No indication as to WHICH side is the A-side and which the B-side....my promo 45 has the following etched in the A-side run-out groove "871078-7-88np-7630edit-sp f/w-herbie jr :>)"....both of my vinyl 45's, promo and commercial, were issued with a similar picture sleeve......no notations on one that a promo is contained within....
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 28 September 2008 at 12:05pm | IP Logged
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Outstanding summary, Ed! The commercial single info will be a nice addition to the database.
Now, we've determined there are two DJ edits for "Dreamin'"... the "Edit with Vocal Intro" running 4:15 and the "Edit" running 4:13. According to the database, one of the DJ edits appears on the Into the Night CD (Razor & Tie 81059), but contains a longer 4:20 run time. Does anyone know which of the DJ edits this is?
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MCT1
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| Posted: 30 September 2008 at 9:55pm | IP Logged
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edtop40 wrote:
| both of my vinyl 45's, promo and commercial, were issued with a similar picture sleeve......no notations on one that a promo is contained within.... |
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That was standard practice for most record labels in the '80s. Promo 45s generally came in stock picture sleeves, even if the stock sleeves contained information on them that was not accurate for the promo.
There were two major exceptions to this: The CBS family of labels (e.g., Columbia/Epic), and Motown. I don't know a lot about Motown's practices in this regard, but CBS made promo versions of picture sleeves from about 1982 to about 1986 (maybe early 1987). The CBS promo sleeves typically have the same artwork as the stock sleeves, but state "Demonstration - Not For Sale" on the front, and delete any text not applicable to the promo 45 (such as mention of a stock B-side). I don't know if CBS made a promo version of every stock sleeve issued during the timeframe in question, but they certainly did for many of them.
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torcan
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| Posted: 04 October 2008 at 6:14pm | IP Logged
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MCT1 wrote:
That was standard practice for most record labels in the '80s. Promo 45s generally came in stock picture sleeves, even if the stock sleeves contained information on them that was not accurate for the promo.
There were two major exceptions to this: The CBS family of labels (e.g., Columbia/Epic), and Motown. I don't know a lot about Motown's practices in this regard, but CBS made promo versions of picture sleeves from about 1982 to about 1986 (maybe early 1987). The CBS promo sleeves typically have the same artwork as the stock sleeves, but state "Demonstration - Not For Sale" on the front, and delete any text not applicable to the promo 45 (such as mention of a stock B-side). I don't know if CBS made a promo version of every stock sleeve issued during the timeframe in question, but they certainly did for many of them. |
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Most CBS commercial and promo sleeves were the same, but there were a few exceptions: Billy Joel's "The Night is Still Young" had a completely different commercial sleeve from what appeared on the promo sleeve. Also, Eddie Money's "Take me Home Tonight" had a picture sleeve on the promo single, but there was never a commercial sleeve for the song.
Some Motown sleeves were also hard to find. Stevie Wonder's "I Just Called to Say I Love You" had a picture sleeve which states "promotional only" on it, but it was reportedly released with some commercial copies when the single first came out. Surprising they didn't do a commercial issue of it when it was such a big hit.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 18 August 2021 at 10:54am | IP Logged
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Revisiting this one to look into the "Edit With Vocal Intro." I have the 12" single with this version, and while the version name would've led me to believe it's the "Edit" but containing the acapella intro from the full-length version, that's not the case. While it does contain that acapella intro, the remainder of the song is a slightly different edit vs. the 4:21 "Edit." The actual run time of the "Edit With Vocal Intro" matches the 4:15 printed time.
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Aaron Kannowski
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aaronk
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| Posted: 18 August 2021 at 11:01am | IP Logged
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elcoleccionista wrote:
The only difference between the two edits is the one on Side B is missing the acapella intro "Now I'm living in the middle of a dream, a dream with a little bit of fantasy".
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To clarify, this is actually not correct. They are similar edits but not exactly the same. The first edit occurs during the intro of both versions and cuts out the sax part, but the edit point is one beat different between the two. The endings are also edited differently. The "Edit With Vocal Intro" fades out earlier than the full length version, while the "Edit" version uses a couple additional edits and retains the original ending/fade of the full length version.
Edited by aaronk on 22 August 2021 at 8:41am
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Kiefer2
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| Posted: 21 August 2021 at 11:42pm | IP Logged
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So I've spent the last 2 hours trying to make the edit
(and it's 3AM here!) using the album version with the
video as my guide and I am thinking it can't be done. I
was able to get everything (including the weird little
"hiccup" at 3:36 which is ectually an edited last note
of a longer vocal run) but I can't get the little
instrumental between 3:44 and 3:48 to match up. Has
anyone tried to make the edit?
I'd be glad to be wrong about this!
Edited by Kiefer2 on 21 August 2021 at 11:49pm
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aaronk
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| Posted: 22 August 2021 at 8:40am | IP Logged
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To create the "Edit" that appears on the 12" single and the promo 45:
1) Remove acapella intro.
2) Remove the opening sax solo (0:29 to 0:40 of the full-length version) by placing your edit point on the exact beat where the sax begins. This is on the third beat of the measure (the "three" count) in both spots.
3) Remove 3:49 to 4:00 of the full-length version. This edit is also on the third beat of the measure just before she sings "I'll be dreaaaaaaaaaaaaa...." each time.
4) Remove 4:15 to 4:27 of the full-length version. This edit is on the fourth beat of the measure on a snare drum hit.
5) Remove 4:39 to 5:02 of the full-length version. This edit is on the first beat of the measure. At your beginning edit point, it's just music, but on the ending edit point, it's just before the lyric "hoping baby you will be there" and will occur in the middle of a sax note (not in the middle of a dream).
Edited by aaronk on 22 August 2021 at 8:43am
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Aaron Kannowski
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aaronk
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| Posted: 22 August 2021 at 8:51am | IP Logged
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Kiefer2 wrote:
| I was able to get everything (including the weird little "hiccup" at 3:36 |
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PLEASE NOTE: Do not trust music videos to match the vinyl. This is a case where the record label has re-edited the LP version and laid it over top of the original music video's audio track in order to improve the sound quality of the original video. They got it wrong!
The edit on the original vinyl occurs at 3:31 of the "Edit" version, not 3:36.
Kiefer2 wrote:
| but I can't get the little instrumental between 3:44 and 3:48 to match up. |
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See #4 in my editing instructions. The edit point occurs in the middle of the instrumental passage at exactly 3:46 of the "Edit."
Edited by aaronk on 22 August 2021 at 8:56am
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Aaron Kannowski
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Kiefer2
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| Posted: 22 August 2021 at 10:01am | IP Logged
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Well! Good thing I had 2 hours to spare on a Saturday
night on a COMPLETELY wrong edit! I may call a lawyer.
Thanks, Aaron-as always.
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EternalStatic
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Edited by EternalStatic on 24 October 2021 at 7:15am
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Topic: DJ edits for Vanessa Willams’ "Dreamin’"?
