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jimct
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| Posted: 18 July 2006 at 6:34pm | IP Logged
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Pat: Last week, I pulled out my first 2 "1986 promo 45" boxes, filed by Joel Whitburn's "Pop Annual", and have been double-checking details for the Board. I am on the "S"'s. I must say, "Love Is The Seventh Wave" by Sting has got to be at least the TENTH listing where you show the year as 1986, but the Pop Annual actually shows the song as being from either 1985 or 1987. I know about end-of-year "straddling", and that some Dec/Jan songs have a different "peak" week, that can sometimes swing it to a different calendar year. I've done many end-of-year "Top songs of the year" countdowns for the radio station. Based on my experiences, taking the above scenario into consideration, the number of non-agreed year instances that I'm finding, to me, seems very high, and is making it a bit harder to be efficient here. Perhaps you always use "Cashbox" year info? If so, why? An explanation would be appreciated, Pat. You usually apply sound reasoning, and I'm sure there's a good reason for this policy as well.
Edited by jimct on 18 July 2006 at 6:35pm
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Pat Downey
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| Posted: 19 July 2006 at 5:45am | IP Logged
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Let's take a look at the song in question Jim, "Love Is The Seventh Wave". The Billboard charts listed this song at #17 for the week ending Dec. 28, 1985. For the week ending January 4, 1986 the Billboard chart was frozen so the position was again #17. For the week ending January 11, 1986 the song was again #17 and from there forward in time it dropped on the Billboard charts. With my handy dandy calculator in hand, I get 10 days at #17 in 1985 and 11 days at #17 in 1986 so I assume that this song had 1 additional day of peak popularity in 1986 hence my designation of 1986 in the database. You can argue all day as to whether this is the correct calculation but that's the most logical method of determining the year of peak popularity in my estimation.
Then the situation becomes more complicated when you take into account other trade publications of the day and where they chart the peak position in December and January. As I have stated over and over again, this database is not a Billboard based database but an average of trade publications of the day.
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jimct
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| Posted: 19 July 2006 at 8:09pm | IP Logged
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Pat: I think we on the Board can all tell you are completely "worn out" answering certain questions/topics - you are "metal on metal", trying to explain/re-explain your position. You sometimes seem to quickly read a couple of words of a post, and conclude, "Here __________ goes again!" But, most of us on the Board can read, Pat. I already knew EVERY word of your explanation. You didn't really answer my question. You ALWAYS tell us your database is a "combination of trade publications of the day." You LOVE to make that statement - but to me, it sounds like legal-ese, and is extremely vague. WHAT exactly does that tell us? WHAT publications? Was Record World still in business in 1986? Do/did you use that info? Was/Is R&R information used? There were/are MANY trade publications. You know which ones you use - I don't. Pat, instead of answering my question, you chose to RE-tell me the ONE thing I ALREADY knew - that your database isn't Billboard-based, sounding all exasperated! I don't think we're trying to antagonize you, Pat. I know we all respect and admire you and your hard work here. But how about giving US a little credit - we help your database a LOT - I'm actually stunned and shocked that you don't ever "thank" the Board regulars on-line - we and the others ABSOLUTELY deserve it. I couldn't believe you called some of us "anal" in a recent post, regarding level of detail. Why? Because some of us might be even more detail-oriented than YOU, that makes us "anal"? You may even be correct to a point, but isn't "the customer always right?" I had NEVER before seen a question on the Board about how you determine the "year" used. I have a general idea, though. But, couldn't you list, just ONCE somewhere, WHAT actual publications you use for WHAT years? Maybe, legally, it helps you to keep it "mysterious", but that doesn't serve US, the users, all that well, and it sometimes affects what songs do/don't appear. You, as the owner, and us, as the user, don't always look at things the same way. I respect that you have a business to run, and that it is very stressful at times. But Pat, instead of hopping back on your soapbox, though, maybe you can read a little deeper sometimes - maybe we ain't askin' the same damn question for the 1000th time!
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Pat Downey
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| Posted: 20 July 2006 at 5:57am | IP Logged
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Do you disagree with my desingation of 1986 as the year of peak popularity for "Love Is The Seventh Wave" after my explanation above?
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jimct
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| Posted: 20 July 2006 at 8:39pm | IP Logged
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Pat, I don't have enough information from you to be able to accurately agree or disagree with you. Based on your furnished information, the only 2 conclusions that I can accurately draw are:
1) You should notify Paul Haney that Joel Whitburn should change the "Love Is The Seventh Wave" peak year to 1986, based on your calculations, and
2) Billboard is the ONLY trade magazine that I know for sure that you used to make this calculation, based on your post. NO other trade mag specifics have been directly provided by you. And I KNOW that can't be true, as you've repeatedly told us. Since I don't know what other "trade magazines of the day" were used for this, it is impossible for me to confirm/refute your ultimate 1986 decision - not enough provided background information.
THAT is why I followed up. STILL, you continue to shed no new light on specifics. I don't sense my inquiry is being met warmly. Feel like I'm asking McDonald's what they put in their Big Mac's "special sauce!"
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torcan
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| Posted: 21 July 2006 at 2:12pm | IP Logged
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Just to throw in my 2 cents: each year I always did a chart of my own personal Top 100 favorites. If a song hadn't started falling, or hadn't "lost its bullet" on the Billboard chart, I waited until the following year to rank it - that way we knew exactly what its peak position was and how long it stayed there.
As for "Love is the Seventh Wave", it reached its peak in 1985, but didn't finish peaking until '86, making it an '86 song.
Just my opinion.
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AndrewChouffi
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| Posted: 21 July 2006 at 3:14pm | IP Logged
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Isn't it funny how we all have our personal preferences, and they're all valid?!
For example: If a song started charting & getting airplay in November 1975, but peaked at #1 in February 1976 I label it a "1975 hit".
Why? Because to me, when a song first starts to get airplay is when the song is impacting me the most. By the time it reaches its chart peak it can be "wallpaper" to me.
No right and wrongs here.
Andy
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: The listed "year" in the database?
