| Author |
|
Todd Ireland
MusicFan
Joined: 16 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4219
|
| Posted: 16 February 2005 at 11:33am | IP Logged
|
|
|
The subject heading wouldn't let me fit in the entire title, just in case you're wondering!
Here's an oddity... I notice in the 10th edition that Pat notes the following for REO Speedwagon's "Can't Fight This Feeling":
"(actual 45 time is (4:47) not (4:54) as stated on the record label)"
My copy shows a printed run time of 4:39 on the label. When I timed it, it actually does run 4:39, which is faster than the usual 4:47-4:54 run times commonly found for this song on CD. Do I have a different pressing with a different speed? The catalog number on my 45 is Epic 34-04713 and the matrix number etched in the runout groove is ZSS-169867-1B.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Todd Ireland
MusicFan
Joined: 16 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4219
|
| Posted: 16 February 2005 at 9:46pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I did mention in a message on another thread that my turntable may run a little bit fast. Just to dispel any suspicions that this is entirely what's causing my vinyl 45 of "Can't Fight This Feeling" to sound sped up, I have calculated that my turntable is no more than 1-and-1/4 seconds fast per minute of play. Even with this miscalibration issue, the speed of my REO 45 would be affected by no more than four seconds.
So, for argument's sake, let's say my 45 copy really runs 4:43 on a "normal" turntable. That's still sped up compared to the 4:47 run time that Pat reports for his 45. And yet, lo and behold, when you refer to the 10th edition and comb through the many CDs "Can't Fight This Feeling" appears on, you find that the song runs 4:43 on Feel Like Makin' Love - Romantic Power Ballads (Rhino 72579) with the following comment: (faster than the 45 and LP)! Hmmm... Based on my sped up vinyl copy, could it be that this particular CD actually contains the "other" 45 version???
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Moderator
Admin Group
Joined: 10 July 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 446
|
| Posted: 17 February 2005 at 6:41am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Todd, there very well could be two different 45 pressings of this 45. Mine is a dj copy with a matrix number of 169876-1A on one side and 169876-1B on the other and both state a running time of 4:54. Is your copy a dj or commercial copy? Whitburn lists a stated running time of 4:54 also.
__________________
Top 40 Music On Compact Disc Moderator
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Todd Ireland
MusicFan
Joined: 16 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4219
|
| Posted: 17 February 2005 at 7:06am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Pat:
There's no white label on my copy or anything indicating that it's a promotional release. The label is navy to dark blue with gray-silver type, and the colorful Epic logo is stamped in large letters on top. The B-side of this single is "Break His Spell" with a printed run time of 2:55 and a matrix number of ZSS-169877-1B.
Upon second look, I must correct the matrix number that I reported is on the A-side runout groove. That number is actually 169876-1B.
I think it's definitely a commercial copy.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Moderator
Admin Group
Joined: 10 July 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 446
|
| Posted: 26 February 2005 at 6:01pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Todd, thanks for sending me your 45 of "Can't Fight This Feeling" which the record label states has a running time of (4:39). Here is what I have been able to determine -- your record really runs (4:46) as does my copy of this 45 which has a stated running time of (4:54) so there are simply two different labels for this 45, one stating (4:39) and one stating (4:54) while both actually run (4:46). This 45 is just a slightly early fade of the full LP length that appears on the album "Wheels Are Turnin'".
__________________
Top 40 Music On Compact Disc Moderator
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Todd Ireland
MusicFan
Joined: 16 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4219
|
| Posted: 27 February 2005 at 8:18pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Wow, I'm pleasantly surprised to see the 45 made it from Pittsburgh to your Colorado address just in two days, Pat! Thanks for shedding some light on the "Can't Fight This Feeling" mystery.
It looks like my turntable speed may be more off than I thought. :-/
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
davidclark
MusicFan
Joined: 17 November 2004
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1100
|
| Posted: 28 February 2005 at 3:01pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
hi there,
I have their "The Hits" CD, where "Can't Fight This Feeling" runs 4:46. Is this the single? If the LP version runs longer, how, as the single ends cold!
__________________
dc1
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Moderator
Admin Group
Joined: 10 July 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 446
|
| Posted: 03 March 2005 at 7:51pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
The 45 is simply an early fade of the LP (about :07 worth). Neither the 45, LP or the "Hits" cd you reference end cold, they all fade out.
__________________
Top 40 Music On Compact Disc Moderator
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
crapfromthepast
MusicFan
Joined: 14 September 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2240
|
| Posted: 16 April 2012 at 10:05pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Okay, this has been a particularly unenjoyable session for me with this song. (Didn't like it then, don't like it now.)
I have the commercial 45 for this, which I bought when the record was in the top 10. Matrix number ZSS-169876-1A. Printed time 4:39. Actual time 4:47. Tempo 78.1 BPM (it's recorded with a click track, and no appreciable tape drift). Important times: the last note is hit at 4:40, and it reaches silence at 4:47. So, it's got a 7-second fade on the last note.
I found a CD that matches the 45 tempo and fade points exactly - Heartland Music's 2-CD Love Songs (Warner Special Products OPCD-4514, released 1988).
There's another CD that seems to use the same analog transfer as Love Songs, but it has a little asymmetric clipping in the waveform - the 2-CD Starland Music Presents Lost In Love (Warner Special Products OPCD-4548, released 1994). There's a CD that's a teeny bit slower (78.0 BPM) and also matches the fade points - CBS's Music For The Miracle (1986). And one that runs slower still (77.8 BPM) and also matches the fade points - Realm's Gold And Platinum Vol. 2 (1986). And one that runs a teeny bit faster (78.3 BPM) and also matches the fade points - Warner Special Products' 2-CD Night Beat (1988).
Then the single-artist CD The Hits came out in 1988, with a slightly faster tempo (79.2 BPM) than the 45 (78.1 BPM), and slightly different times: the last note is hit at 4:37, and silence is reached at 4:50. So this is a 13-second fade, compared to a 7-second fade on the 45. (I assume that the album version has the 13-second fade?)
There are a few discs that use the same analog transfer as The Hits and all run 79.2 BPM:
Cema's Entertainment Weekly Presents Rock Archives Vol. 2 (1990; fade shortened to 9 sec), Priority's Eighties Greatest Rock Hits Vol. 5 From The Heart (1992, full 13-sec fade but mastered too loud and clips a lot), the 50-CD promo set The A List Disc 30 (1994, fade shortened to about 12 sec; no noise reduction, which is good), Razor & Tie's 2-CD Forever '80s (1994, fade truncated at 12 sec), Time-Life's 2-CD Body Talk Vol. 9 Magic Moments (1996; differently-EQ'd digital clone of The Hits, full 13-second fade), Time-Life's Body Talk The Language Of Love (1998; identical to Vol. 9 above), and Time-Life's 2-CD Classic Soft Rock More Than A Feeling (2006; another digital clone of Vol. 9 but off by half a sample; full 13-sec fade).
Finally, Bill Inglot did a fresh analog transfer for Billboard Top Hits 1985 in 1994. It runs about the same speed (78.3 BPM) as the 45 (78.1 BPM), with the last note starting at 4:40 and silence starting at 4:54. It's about a 14-second fade for this analog transfer, or 7 seconds longer than the 45.
There are some the use the same analog transfer as the Billboard disc, all running 78.3 BPM:
Time-Life's Sounds Of The Eighties Vol. 1 The Rockin' Eighties (1994, full 14-sec fade), Cema's 2-CD Cool Rock (1995, full 14-sec fade), JCI's Only Rock 'N Roll #1 Radio Hits 1985-1989 (1996, fade truncated at 11 sec).
In my opinion, I prefer the Bill Inglot analog transfer on the Billboard Top Hits 1985 disc, which has plenty of high end and some satisfying tape hiss at the end. (Really, none of the discs listed above sound terrible for this song.) The fade is 7 seconds longer than the 45, but I'm OK with that.
Can someone confirm the length of the fade on the LP?
Edited by crapfromthepast on 17 April 2012 at 7:53am
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
aaronk
Admin Group
Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6513
|
| Posted: 16 April 2012 at 10:25pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
But Ron, isn't that 7 extra seconds of agonizing pain for you??
__________________
Aaron Kannowski
Uptown Sound
91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
crapfromthepast
MusicFan
Joined: 14 September 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2240
|
| Posted: 17 April 2012 at 7:50am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Ha! In practice, the song would never get that far, because I would have already changed the station after five seconds.
I guess one could say that the fade is the best part of the song, knowing it's over!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
aaronk
Admin Group
Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6513
|
| Posted: 17 April 2012 at 1:25pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
LOL! Too funny.
__________________
Aaron Kannowski
Uptown Sound
91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Hykker
MusicFan
Joined: 30 October 2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1386
|
| Posted: 17 April 2012 at 4:41pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Moderator wrote:
| The 45 is simply an early fade of the LP (about :07 worth). Neither the 45, LP or the "Hits" cd you reference end cold, they all fade out. |
|
|
Many of the stations I've worked at referred to songs that end with a long sustained note as a "cool" ending...not really a fade, but not a cold ending either.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
NightAire
MusicFan
Joined: 20 February 2010
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 998
|
| Posted: 18 April 2012 at 11:53am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I've heard it called a "cool" ending, or, believe it or not, a "cold / fade." :)
At stations I worked for, we had:
C = cold
F = fade
CF = cold / fade
I've also heard "sustain" used, now that I think about it.
__________________
Gene Savage
http://www.BlackLightRadio.com
http://www.facebook.com/TulsaSavage
Owasso, Oklahoma USA
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
RichM921
MusicFan
Joined: 30 October 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 147
|
| Posted: 18 April 2012 at 1:52pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
At one of my old stations, they would refer to this type of ending as a
"decay."
Back on the subject of this song, I remember a few years ago I heard
an AC station play "Can't Fight This Feeling" with most of the guitar
solo edited in the middle. I'm assuming this was an in-house edit since
I've never heard of any official release like this.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
PopArchivist
MusicFan
Joined: 30 June 2018
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1524
|
| Posted: 15 November 2021 at 12:08am | IP Logged
|
|
|
RichM921 wrote:
At one of my old stations, they would refer to this type of ending as a
"decay."
Back on the subject of this song, I remember a few years ago I heard
an AC station play "Can't Fight This Feeling" with most of the guitar
solo edited in the middle. I'm assuming this was an in-house edit since
I've never heard of any official release like this. |
|
|
I recreated the in-house A/C edit. It isn't hard. It's entirely feasible an AC station would do that. Does anyone else remember it getting any airplay?
Edited by PopArchivist on 15 November 2021 at 12:55am
__________________
"I'm a pop archivist, not a chart philosopher, I seek to listen, observe and document the chart position of music."
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
crapfromthepast
MusicFan
Joined: 14 September 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2240
|
| Posted: 15 November 2021 at 11:06am | IP Logged
|
|
|
When this was a hit, I never once heard an edit of the song on the New York City stations that I listened to. Not to say that some stations didn't edit it, but if they did, such an edit wasn't widespread.
And 9-1/2 years after my previous post, I retrieved a nice dub of the vinyl LP version from YouTube. I can confirm that it runs at about 78.6 BPM, or about 0.4% faster than the Rhino disc. (That's real, but not really significant. Safe to ignore the speed difference.) The last note is hit at 4:39, and it reaches silence at 4:53. So, it's got a 14-second fade on the last note. The fade on the Rhino disc exactly matches the LP fade.
I've noticed that the REO Speedwagon collection The Hits runs fast on a few (all?) tracks, and has its left and right channels swapped on a few (all?) tracks. Avoid this collection, if possible.
Summing up:
LP - 14-second fade
45 - 7-second fade, roughly same speed as LP (variation within typical source-to-source speed variations for that time frame)
The Hits - too fast
__________________
There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one Crap From The Past.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
mjb50
MusicFan
Joined: 28 April 2021
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 310
|
| Posted: 15 November 2021 at 7:25pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
To get the mastering on The Hits to the speed it was almost certainly performed at (A4=440 Hz), you need to slow it down about 1.36%, e.g. interpret the sample rate as 43506 instead of 44100. This is almost exactly the 1.41% slowdown required to get 79.2 down to 78.1 BPM, so I think it's safe to assume the 45 is pretty close to the "correct" speed.
A few others on The Hits:
• Keep On Loving You needs to be slowed 0.91% (43702).
• Don't Let Him Go needs to be slowed 1.14% (43605).
• Take It On The Run needs to be slowed 0.86% (43722).
Keep On Loving You on the Like, Omigod! box is the same speed as on The Hits.
(Of course, any speedup or slowdown on the original vinyl records may have been intentional. Even if not, you may regard the authentic listening experience as whatever those vinyl speeds are. I personally feel it depends on the song, but I can't think of any time I'd really want to hear REO Speedwagon sped up at all.)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Hykker
MusicFan
Joined: 30 October 2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1386
|
| Posted: 16 November 2021 at 6:31am | IP Logged
|
|
|
PopArchivist wrote:
I recreated the in-house A/C edit. It isn't hard. It's entirely feasible an AC station would do
that. Does anyone else remember it getting any airplay? |
|
|
I'm pretty sure Magic 106.7 in Boston played an edit of this, they were known for doing house edits.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Active Topics 
Memberlist 
Search 
Help
Register 
Login
Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: "Can’t Fight This Feeling" - REO Speedwag
