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aaronk
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| Posted: 25 November 2005 at 12:44pm | IP Logged
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I was curious about Ray Charles "What'd I Say" when I found a (4:20) edit on a TM Century disc. I'm guessing they goofed, because I can't find any versions even close to that time in the database. What I did find was:
"LP version of parts 1 & 2"
"45 version of just part 1"
and "45 edit of parts 1 & 2"
My question is were there two 45s issued, one having the 3:08 version and one having the 5:04? Or is one a b-side?
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Pat Downey
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| Posted: 27 November 2005 at 11:35am | IP Logged
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Aaron, the 45 of "What'd I Say" had Part 1 on side 1 running about 3:08. Part 2 is on the flip side and runs about 1:56. The LP version combines Parts 1 & 2 and runs 6:25. What is called Part 1 on the 45 is an edited version of what is called Part 1 on the LP version and Part 1 on the LP really runs 4:30 in contrast to the 3:08 running time on the 45.
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MMathews
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| Posted: 27 November 2005 at 2:05pm | IP Logged
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Hi
To be a completist, I can also add;
there is another difference between the 45 version and the LP. The ad-lib portion with the "studio chatter" between parts 1 and 2 are different, with Ray yelling different stuff. The rest of the vocal take is all the same.
-MM
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aaronk
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| Posted: 28 November 2005 at 1:14pm | IP Logged
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Interesting. Thanks for the info! So, what I gather is that the comment "45 edit of parts 1 & 2" means that they took both sides of the 45 and spliced them together. That makes sense now.
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edtop40
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| Posted: 19 May 2013 at 8:19am | IP Logged
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my commercial 45 for the ray charles song 'what's i say
(part 1) issued as atlantic 2031 lists the run time on the
label as 3:05, but actually runs 3:09....you can fade out
the last 0:04 of the mono lp version to effectively re-
create the true vinyl 45 version....the 3:05 version on cd
dumps the post song banter early...you'll also need to
pitch down that version to match the vinyl 45 speed....
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jimct
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I recently stumbled upon an old thread over on BSN where it was noted
that there were two different length Atlantic 2031 promo 45s sent to
radio stations in mid-1959. For now, I will focus on the info for the "Part I"
side. If someone has "Part II" questions, I'll get you the answers.
The more common of the two promo 45s (FYI, both copies show the artist
as "Ray Charles And His Orchestra") includes the same version found on
the stock 45, that Ed has noted above. This promo 45 copy has a white
label, and states "A-3263" above the "promotion record-not for sale"
notation. It has a listed time of (3:05), an actual time of (3:09), with
handwritten deadwax of "45-A-3263-3".
The BSN thread had made mention of another 1959 promo 45 issue,
however, that I had not previously been aware of. This promo 45 utilized a
yellow label, and stated "X-100" above the promotion record-not for sale"
notation.
I was *somehow* able to locate a beat copy of this rare 2nd promo 45,
simply for reference purposes. The seller was fearful that it might not
even play through without skipping, but it did! :) I don't normally buy
records graded "G+", but the price was fair, so I took a shot. I consider
myself lucky as all heck to have found one of these yellow label promos at
all, in any condition.
"Part I" of this rare 2nd promo 45 has both a listed & actual time of (2:33),
with handwritten deadwax of "45-X-100-1".
Since there is no info on this (2:33) promo 45 in the db, I have shot out a
more-poppy-and-clicky-than-usual dub to Pat, for his evaluation.
I believe Mike Callahan had at least gotten hold of a dub of the (2:33)
promo 45 version, at some point, and reported that, while the (2:33)
promo 45 was indeed a different edit than the (3:09) promo 45, they
could both be successfully recreated from the full CD version.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 26 February 2016 at 11:54pm | IP Logged
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Jim was kind enough to send me a dub of the 2:33 version, and I
discovered a couple interesting things about it. First, this mono mix has
quite a bit more reverb than both the stereo mix and the mono mixes on
CD. Second, this version has been edited from the full 6 1/2 minute
take and has parts that don’t appear on the mono stock 45 or the mono
LP version. So, while Mike Callahan is correct about being able to
create the edit, you would have to use the stereo LP version to do it,
and the mix would be quite different.
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Aaron Kannowski
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aaronk
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| Posted: 27 February 2016 at 10:17am | IP Logged
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Here's one more thing regarding the 2:33 DJ version: the chatter at the end of the song is completely different from both the stereo LP chatter and the mono chatter. There's a thread on the Hoffman board where Steve talks about the various versions and where they first appeared.
Quote:
As far I can figure, he recorded the song once in the Atlantic Studios with Tom Dowd engineering on the Ampex 8-track in 1959.
The various mixes and versions that came from this one session are as follows:
1. 45 RPM single, 1959: Part one on side one that fades. Part two on side two.
2. LP version mono, 1959: Part one and two are joined and do not fade.
3. Special DJ 45 RPM single, 1959: Different workup of both part one and part two that is unique to this record alone. No commercial 45, LP or CD release of this version exists anywhere.
4. "Twist With Ray Charles" version in mono from 1961. A Tom Down remix from the 8-track. First release of the complete song aka "long version".
5. "Hit Of Ray Charles Recorded On Eight-Track Stereo" LP from 1964. This version matches #4 but was mixed in 1964 in true stereo for the first time for this "stereo only" LP release.
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I'll add this summary to the above:
mono LP version - released in 1959; chatter between parts 1 & 2 was re-recorded and dubbed in over the original chatter; last note before chatter is noticeably slower
mono 45 version - released in 1959; an early fade of mono LP version
full recording (mono) - released in 1961; remixed from the multitracks and have the original chatter between parts 1 & 2; never released on CD; Steve says the vocal is dry (little or no reverb)
full recording (stereo) - released in 1964; remixed from the multitracks and have the original chatter between parts 1 & 2; Steve says this is the only stereo mix to be released on CD
mono promo 45 version - released in 1959; different mix with additional reverb; edited from the full recording/take including parts not heard on original mono LP version; has different chatter from both the full recording AND the mono LP version (i.e. chatter re-recorded again and tacked onto the end of the promo single version); never released on CD
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Aaron Kannowski
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PopArchivist
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| Posted: 14 November 2018 at 3:25pm | IP Logged
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This is another one of those Part 1 and Part 2 45 versions I am working to assemble and checked the board. A few questions popped up since I was not around for the original thread and Jim's Mono DJ version discovery:
1) If Part 2 is on the flip side and runs 1:56 how can I recreate it from the 6:28 or find it on CD since the LP version Part 1 runs over 4 minutes? Or can I simply not recreate Part 2 at all since it was never on CD (which means I have to get the 45)
2) Was the 6:28 LP version played on the radio or only Part 1 which was 3:09?
3)What is the 5 min 10 version (Part 1 at 3:09 and then 1:56 for the Part 2 which is the "45 edit"?)
4) Is there any listing on discogs for the mono promo 45 version or has anyone seen it for sale? It seems that this version like Jim said is probably very rare.
5) Is the 6:28 in mono on CD? All I can seem to find is stereo copies.
If anyone has any further insight into this track would be appreciated.
Edited by PopArchivist on 14 November 2018 at 3:48pm
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 14 November 2018 at 3:44pm | IP Logged
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PopArchivist wrote:
1) If Part 2 is on the flip side and runs 1:56 how can I recreate it from the 6:28 or find it on CD since the LP version Part 1 runs over 4 minutes? Or can I simply not recreate Part 2 at all since it was never on CD (which means I have to get the 45)
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No, you HAVE to recreate Part 2. Not doing so will risk revocation of your membership.
But rather than buying a 45, you could always just listen to one of the YouTube videos that has Part 2...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ek4MSe8Z-g
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PopArchivist
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| Posted: 14 November 2018 at 3:56pm | IP Logged
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Quote:
| No, you HAVE to recreate Part 2. Not doing so will risk revocation of your membership. |
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Hey half the fun is recreating stuff that is not on CD! You know anytime you want to join my restoration project you are welcome to. All these confusing versions oy vay!
Edited by PopArchivist on 14 November 2018 at 3:57pm
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TomDiehl1
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| Posted: 14 November 2018 at 8:55pm | IP Logged
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I have the rare second promo copy
somewhere. It's very unique for sure. It's
hiding somewhere in my music room with the
original white label promo along with it.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 15 November 2018 at 8:04am | IP Logged
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In response to #4, there is a Discogs listing, and one copy is currently available for sale for a couple bucks. It's listed in "Good" condition, which means it's been beat to hell. I have two copies of the yellow-label promo 45, and both are in G+ condition. Mine are also beat to hell but not quite as bad as the G condition copy for sale. Unless one of us can track down a copy in at least VG or VG+ condition, I have no hope for ever being able to restore this one to a nice sounding digital file.
(As a side note, there is a brand new seller on Discogs who supposedly has a copy in VG+ condition, but it is not available for sale in the United States. I also have no faith that he has properly graded his records, even if he were to make it available to US buyers. Most Discogs sellers, unfortunately, WAY over-grade their records.)
Regarding #5, not to my knowledge. The full take in mono is only available on LP. Again, this would be a 1961 remix from the multi-tracks. The full 6:28 version was never released in 1959. As Steve Hoffman points out, the first stereo mix was not done until 1964, so the only mixes available in '59 were the mono LP version (and the 45 edits taken from it) and the unique promo 45 mix with extra reverb and audio found nowhere else.
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Aaron Kannowski
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PopArchivist
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| Posted: 16 November 2018 at 10:18pm | IP Logged
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TomDiehl1 wrote:
I have the rare second promo copy
somewhere. It's very unique for sure. It's
hiding somewhere in my music room with the
original white label promo along with it. |
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Until this thread, I never even knew it existed or that an edit of a 45 edit would even be needed in the 50's. Hopefully it stops hiding!
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PopArchivist
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| Posted: 25 November 2018 at 9:58am | IP Logged
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TomDiehl1 wrote:
I have the rare second promo copy
somewhere. It's very unique for sure. It's
hiding somewhere in my music room with the
original white label promo along with it. |
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Tom, Did you ever find it?
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The Hits Man
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| Posted: 28 November 2018 at 10:18am | IP Logged
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I'd love to know the history of this recording and why all
the variations.
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AdvprosD
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| Posted: 24 December 2021 at 5:22pm | IP Logged
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The best I can tell on these two different versions when including parts 1 and 2 is the chatter in the break. The one I'm most used to hearing has Ray on the mic
saying "Nah, nah," in a fashion that sounds like he doesn't want to continue. What I just heard today was different. where he's saying "What's that, what's that?"
in a much more agreeable tone to continue on with the song. I can't say I ever remember hearing this version before. It's on a V/A collection from Razor & Tie,
called "Heroes Of Rock & Roll, and it's the very last track on disc 2. Sounds like stereo to me on these cheapie desk speakers I'm using.
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RichM921
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| Posted: 24 December 2021 at 10:42pm | IP Logged
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AdvprosD wrote:
What I just heard today was different. where he's
saying "What's that, what's that?" in a much more agreeable tone to
continue on with the song. I can't say I ever remember hearing this
version before. |
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That's the version I'm most familiar with because we played it at a radio
station where I worked in the '90s. If I remember correctly, it was on a
Ray Charles CD boxed set.
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Topic: Ray Charles "What’d I Say" question
