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edtop40
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pat...i agree the 45 version has a slightly different fade out than the super hits of the 70's cd..........but..........the full lp version is available and can that version be edited down to match the 45 version........
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davidclark
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I don't believe the 45 can be extracted from the LP...I've tried. The last few seconds of the 45 (can't remember the extact time point as I am in Thailand on holiday and away from my music at the moment) are not present on the LP. Must have been an even longer master tape from which the 45 and LP were created.
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Roscoe
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davidclark wrote:
| I don't believe the 45 can be extracted from the LP...I've tried. The last few seconds of the 45 (can't remember the extact time point as I am in Thailand on holiday and away from my music at the moment) are not present on the LP. Must have been an even longer master tape from which the 45 and LP were created. |
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Were you using the "true" LP version to try to recreate the edit? According to the database, the LP version only appears on one domestic CD; all other CD appearances are a different edit (e.g. the version that appears on Rhino Super Hits of the 70s Vol. 2). It's definitely not possible to recreate the 45 from that version.
According to the database, the LP version runs 4:24. I have not heard the full LP version, but it would be interesting to see if the 45 version can be recreated from this long version.
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AndrewChouffi
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The U.S. 45 can be recreated from the full-length mono LP version, but unfortunately all stereo versions I've heard (and there's quite a few in various countries) are not quite full performance length to begin with.
I keep searching...
Andy
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davidclark
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| Posted: 01 February 2006 at 7:48pm | IP Logged
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to Roscoe,
I am aware that most versions of it are that incorrect edit and did not use that as my starting point. I believe I have the LP version in stereo, as it runs about that length. I can not locate the last few seconds of the single in that LP version I have. I also have a mono LP version that I will check when I get home.
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aaronk
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Did anyone ever come up with a conclusion to this thread? Can the "E" LP version be folded down to the original mono version? How much shorter does the LP version run when edited to match the 45?
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davidclark
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| Posted: 19 June 2006 at 5:26am | IP Logged
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hi aaronk,
no, we didn't come to a conclusion on this one. But here's my take on it (after trying to create the 45 from a stereo LP version someone had sent me).
The 45 edits out from 1:52 to 1:56 and from 2:24 to 2:43, then from 3:04 to the end there is a piece that is not present on the LP version - as I mentioned above I can only assume the master is longer than both the LP and 45, each being created from it and the 45 uses a piece not used for the LP.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 13 August 2006 at 7:39pm | IP Logged
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I just heard a vinyl copy of the full (4:24) LP version. It CAN be edited down to make the 45 version. The ending of the 45, which is not present on the (3:15) stereo versions, IS present on the mono LP version.
The only question that remains is can we fold that electronic stereo version down to make it sound good?
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davidclark
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| Posted: 14 August 2006 at 4:53am | IP Logged
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Hi Aaron.
hummm...interesting. I could not find that end piece in the stereo LP version I have. If it's in the mono LP version, great (where?), however I have already made a stereo version of the 45 but using the mono piece at the end.
Edited by davidclark on 14 August 2006 at 5:05am
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aaronk
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David,
It's right at the ending of the song. The 45 uses the fadeout of the mono LP version. Right after the "da da da da" heard on the stereo "neither" versions is the "looking for some happiness" part. How long is the stereo version that you have, and what is the run time?
Aaron
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TomDiehl1
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Whether you add on the mono 45 ending or the ending from the mono lp, it still can't be considered the stereo 45 version, if the end piece is still in mono....the session tape for the song needs to be located and issued in a totally unedited form.....
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aaronk
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| Posted: 14 August 2006 at 2:56pm | IP Logged
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You're correct, Tom. However, if the "E" version on CD matches the vinyl LP, we could at least try to fold it down and have the mono 45 version.
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davidclark
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| Posted: 14 August 2006 at 4:27pm | IP Logged
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well....
after what I thought was the LP version, I just discovered it runs 3:59 (it is a stereo version, the LP version faded early, the source of which I do not know...), I just discovered by listening to my long mono version that IT is the LP version running 4:28 and, it does indeed contain the end bit of the 45 (starting at about 4:09)! man!!
thanks for making me look, Aaron! Guess being in Thailand when the post first appeared had me at a disadvantage being away from most of my library...couldn't verify!
Edited by davidclark on 14 August 2006 at 7:48pm
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jimct
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TomDiehl1 wrote:
| Whether you add on the mono 45 ending or the ending from the mono lp, it still can't be considered the stereo 45 version, if the end piece is still in mono..... |
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Tom: My 1970 Colossus 45 is in mono. I have no DJ 45 on it. When you refer to the "Stereo 45 version", unless it's on one side of the 1970 DJ 45, I do not believe the true U.S. 45 version has EVER been released in stereo. Since Aaron says the 45 version can ONLY be recreated from the mono LP, not the stereo, I believe the goal here is to obtain better mono 45 version sound by editing from the mono vinyl LP, as opposed to dubbing off of a styrene 45. Tom, I know you are a stereo guy, but I don't believe anyone to date is claiming to be able to put together a correct "stereo 45 version" here. What would they use as the stereo 45 version "source audio?" To my knowledge, a correct, legitimate version didn't exist back in '70, and doesn't exist now, despite numerous flawed CD attempts and a '70 stereo LP release. "Hybrid" mixes, desired by some, are what they are - the best that can be accurately re-created. No one is claiming that a combo, hybrid mix has ANY hope of meeting "stereophile" standards. It's impossible when required 45 source audio is ONLY found in mono. And unless you're a supergroup, how often does "bonus" session tapes ever see the light of day? I'm not holding my breath.
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TomDiehl1
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Maybe Jerry Ross still has the session tapes. Who knows. Such an oddity like Abergavenny by Shannon has turned up in stereo on a cd from Australia (and a UK lp too) so sometimes things can turn up in the oddest places...
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aaronk
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I just picked up an import 2-track CD single that has "Little Green Bag" running (3:24). Unfortunately, this is the stereo LP version faded early. I would not recommend picking this one up.
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edtop40
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my commercial 45 for the george baker selection song
'little green bag' issued as colossus 112 states the run
time on the label as 3:21 but actually runs 3:19......john
was kind enough to edit the mono lp version to match the
vinyl 45.....so it CAN be done.....his version runs
slightly faster at 3:17, if you slow it down by 0:02 you'll
have the vinyl 45 version.....thanks john!!!
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crapfromthepast
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This post just documents findings, which really aren't that significant for this track.
Mono LP version (4:26)
I found this in Aaron's collection.
In the US, the closest you can get is the 1993 Collectables CD release of the Little Green Bag album, which runs 4:24, but is in fake stereo. I don't know if you can extract nice-sounding mono by using one of the two channels of this release.
Discogs shows additional CD releases of the full album in the Netherlands, with release dates of 2005, 2014, and 2020. No idea what's on these, although the 2020 release is a deluxe edition that includes the original 1970 album, and a whole disc of singles, B-sides and rarities. One track is "Little Green Bag (US Single Edit)", and another is "Little Green Bag (Single Version Stereo)".
Mono 45 version (3:19)
You can edit the mono 45 from the mono LP version, by keeping 0:00-1:52, 1:57-2:30, 2:49-3:29, and 4:09 to the end. If you then hasten the fade by about five seconds, you'll have the mono 45 version.
Eric Records has done us all a favor by including the mono 45 version on Hard To Find 45s On CD Vol. 17 Late Sixties Classics (2017). Best to just get this disc and be done with it.
Stereo LP version (3:58)
I should point out that I don't know in what country or countries this was actually released, or if it was released as an LP or a 45. Let's just call it the "stereo LP version" for convenience.
This turns up on EMI Australia's 5-CD Seventies Complete Vol. 2 (1999), where it runs significantly faster than Aaron's file of the mono LP version. It follows the same structure as the mono LP version, but fades from 3:49 to 3:57. (Those fade point match up to 3:55 and 4:02 on the mono LP version, due to the speed difference.) It sounds pretty bad on this disc, with seemingly very high-generation source tapes being used.
Stereo edit of LP version that doesn't quite match up with the mono 45 (3:15)
You can't edit (what I called) the stereo LP version to match the mono 45, because the mono 45 uses the very end of the mono LP version, after the stereo LP version has faded out. The last portion of the mono 45 simply doesn't exist in stereo.
You can get this edit from the stereo LP version, by keeping 0:00-1:50, 1:55-2:26, 2:45-3:24, and 3:44 to the end, without having to hasten the fade. It's a pretty good edit, and unless you know the 45 version really well, it doesn't sound jarring at all.
I can say that Rhino didn't create this edit, because it existed on CD before the Have A Nice Day disc.
As far as I know, it first appeard on JCI's Groovin' Sixties (1987), where it sounds pretty good. Nice dynamic range, decent EQ, no evidence of noise reduction on the fade.
It appeared next on PolyTel Canada's 2-CD Ready To Rock (1988), which I obtained in the late '80s as a mail-order disc through Silver Eagle Records. It sounds hideous here.
Next, it turned up on Rhino's Have A Nice Day Vol. 2 (1990), with sound quality comparable to the JCI disc. The same analog transfer is used on:- Rhino's budget Seventies Smash Hits Vol. 2 (1993) - digitally identical
- Time-Life's Sounds Of The Seventies Vol. 32 AM Pop Classics (1993)
For reference, although I don't know who'd actually need this information, the edit points on the Have A Nice Day Vol. 2 disc occur at 1:51.3, 2:23.7 (I think), and 3:03.5.
I would guess that all the compilations (except the Eric disc) use the same analog transfer as Have A Nice Day, but I can't confirm.
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MMathews
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I should point out one other difference between the mono
and stereo versions. The stereo mix has a different
cowbell track than the mono mix.
It is difficult tell by A/B comparison, I discovered this
by syncing them together. So besides being faded early,
that is another difference in the stereo LP version.
MM
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Brian W.
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The full-length mono version is available on a 25th
Anniversary release of the album from earlier this year,
but it's expensive... like $35. It is available as a
download only on the Netherlands version of 7Digital.
But I tried and tried to download it the song, and I
couldn't... I used a proxy server, I used a VPN. Always
got to the checkout and it said "can't connect to
PayPal." It must have some way of knowing I'm not in
the Netherlands, even though I'm not getting that error
message.
Edited by Brian W. on 13 October 2020 at 3:34pm
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Topic: george baker "little green bag"
