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mjb50
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| Posted: 28 April 2021 at 9:23pm | IP Logged
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Pat's database says The Jacksons Story (2004), a Hip-O release, contains the LP version of "I Want You Back", but it's actually a unique(?) version. It's a dry mix, and has the backing vocals panned to
the right channel instead of the left. Also, it has no content, just noise, below 60 Hz and above 18 kHz.
The Jacksons Story: Number 1's (2007) is apparently the same CD with different cover art, so I assume it also has this version.
Likewise, I have to wonder if '70s Pop Number 1's, another Hip-O release, has the same version.
Something to keep an ear out for.
Edited by mjb50 on 30 April 2021 at 8:30am
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aaronk
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Welcome to the forum! Really good ears on that. I'm hearing this same mix on Motown Year By Year 1969. To point out more specifically where the differences are, at 0:53, the background vocal "show you that I love you" is panned to the opposite channel when compared with the stereo mix on Diana Ross Presents... Also, the opening guitar has reverb on the latter stereo mix but is dry on the other mix.
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Aaron Kannowski
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AdvprosD
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There's something I've read from time to time on this forum... Can you explain what a "Dry" mix is essentially?
My first guess would be that it has no reverb incorporated in the recording. AM and FM pop stations here were always heavy on the reverb. So much,
that they even added more to the whole day's broadcast. News and everything.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 29 April 2021 at 5:18pm | IP Logged
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Exactly right, Dave. When people say "dry," they mean there's little or no reverb.
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Aaron Kannowski
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mjb50
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| Posted: 30 April 2021 at 9:02am | IP Logged
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Dry/wet is more generally in reference to any effects added at the mixing stage aside from simple panning and EQ. So it's not just reverb (echo), although that's definitely the main
category of effects people are usually talking about. A dry mix has little to no effects, a wet mix is drenched in them.
To get more specific:
Indeed the intro to the dry mix of "I Want You Back" has no reverb on the opening guitar. Also, the handclaps are panned center instead of left. This center-panning of the claps
makes it very easy to hear them throughout the song, whereas in the standard mix, they're often drowned out by the other instruments on the left.
The panning of the backing vocals affects all of them throughout the song, not just at 0:53. For example, at 0:25 there's the "uh-huh-huh"/"ooo-hoo" chorus as Michael's just getting
warmed up.
Likewise, the reverb issue affects more of the song than just the intro. For example, the dry mix is missing that 'verb at 1:17, at the end of the "na-na-na-na" vocal.
In the breakdown at 2:02 you can plainly hear Michael's "a-boo-buh-bum-bum" is panned left and wet on the standard version, and panned right and dry on the dry version.
I updated my original post to also mention that in the dry mix, there's no content below 60 Hz either. So every time the bassist plays the lowest couple of notes throughout the song,
you're only hearing the harmonics.
Edited by mjb50 on 30 April 2021 at 9:06am
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aaronk
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| Posted: 30 April 2021 at 9:36am | IP Logged
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Yes, correct. I probably should have said "to point out where a couple of differences are..." I just wanted to give people an example of what to listen for when comparing the mixes.
That should be a crime to shave off the bass on one of the most iconic bass guitar lines in any pop song.
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Aaron Kannowski
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mjb50
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| Posted: 30 April 2021 at 10:31am | IP Logged
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Yeah. What seems to be happening on various reissues is that there will be multiple master tapes or already digitized
recordings to choose from, and they're not very well labeled as to what they actually are. Someone probably listened to the
dry mix and thought it sounded a lot "clearer" and didn't realize it was actually a rough mix, not just a better copy of
the final version. Then it got marked as the best copy to use for future projects.
Edited by mjb50 on 01 May 2021 at 5:34am
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AdvprosD
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Thanks mjb50 for the enhancement to the descriptions. I have already in a short year learned a LOT from the great folks on this forum.
As a side note to the "dry vs wet", I remember first noticing the intro bass riff on the Ohio Players "For The Love Of Money." When it was played on
the radio I never noticed that every other rep was going wet then dry. It is an effect that I wish I hadn't found. It really bugs my mind to hear it.
And, of course thanks to you too Aaron!
Edited by AdvprosD on 30 April 2021 at 6:20pm
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crapfromthepast
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Aaron correctly noted that the alternate mix appeared on Motown's Motown Year By Year 1969 (1995).
I'm willing to bet that this alternate mix first appeared on that disc.
If I remember correctly, one of the producers of that Motown series intentionally tried to use alternate versions whenever possible, just to get the versions out there and give the consumers something cool and different. You'll find a lot of previously unreleased stuff first appearing on the Motown Year By Year discs.
Edited by crapfromthepast on 30 April 2021 at 7:21pm
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AndrewChouffi
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crapfromthepast wrote:
Aaron correctly noted that
the alternate mix appeared on Motown's Motown Year
By Year 1969 (1995).
I'm willing to bet that this alternate mix
first appeared on that disc.
If I remember correctly, one of the producers of that
Motown series intentionally tried to use alternate
versions whenever possible, just to get the versions
out there and give the consumers something cool and
different. You'll find a lot of previously unreleased
stuff first appearing on the Motown Year By
Year discs. |
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Yes, Ron, that producer was Al Quaglieri, who worked
with me on a couple of early Sundazed projects and
lived in my city of Albany, NY.
Andy
Edited by AndrewChouffi on 01 May 2021 at 9:07am
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mjb50
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| Posted: 08 June 2024 at 5:00am | IP Logged
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The database never got updated to mention the existence of the alternate mix. Is it on a to-do list?
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AndrewChouffi
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| Posted: 09 June 2024 at 6:20am | IP Logged
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Is it possible that the dryer "I Want You Back" is a fold-
down of the Quad 'Greatest Hits' album version (I believe
issued in Japan)?
If anyone has an opinion, please chime in.
Andy
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Jackson 5 - I Want You Back
