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promojunkie
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| Posted: 18 June 2021 at 3:44pm | IP Logged
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There may have already been a thread on this topic. I've
often wondered why record labels often mis-timed the
length of a track on promotional 45, 12" and cd singles.
I'm not referring to one or one or two seconds off but
big timing errors. A random example would be a radio
edit track listed as 3:47 but the track was really 4:15.
Was this intentional or just really bad attention to
detail? Certain labels were more notorious than others.
Anyone have theories or inside info? I've spent
countless hours trying to track down certain edits only
to find out it they don't exist...
Edited by promojunkie on 18 June 2021 at 3:45pm
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thecdguy
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| Posted: 18 June 2021 at 4:12pm | IP Logged
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I imagine a shorter running time would be more attractive
to radio programmers because it would allow more time for
advertising. There was a story about how The Righteous
Brothers' "You've Lost That Lovin'Feelin'" was labelled
as running 3:05 on the 45, and when it began to be
noticed that it actually ran considerably longer, it was
already a hit.
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Hykker
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| Posted: 19 June 2021 at 4:19am | IP Logged
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thecdguy wrote:
I imagine a shorter running time
would be more attractive to radio programmers because
it would allow more time for advertising. |
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Let's put to rest the notion that radio played edits
(or pitched songs) to "fit in more commercials". They
didn't. Why? It would be just as easy to play one
less song.
Top 40 has always been a fast-paced formats, and long
songs can slow down the momentum. As far as mis-timed
records (and commercial copies were mis-timed as
well), I'm sure some of it was deliberate, other times
a mistake. Then there were the songs (Fakin' It-Simon
& Garfunkel immediately comes to mind) where the time
was listed in an odd manner...in that case listed time
was 2:74.
Pitching is a different story...it was done to
brighten up the sound, and make a given song sound
"draggy" elsewhere. Of course that didn't stop
stations (particularly in the 70s) from getting into
"pitch wars", resulting into an all Chipmunks all the
time scenario.
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PopArchivist
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| Posted: 19 June 2021 at 4:58pm | IP Logged
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promojunkie wrote:
There may have already been a thread on this topic. I've
often wondered why record labels often mis-timed the
length of a track on promotional 45, 12" and cd singles.
I'm not referring to one or one or two seconds off but
big timing errors. A random example would be a radio
edit track listed as 3:47 but the track was really 4:15.
Was this intentional or just really bad attention to
detail? Certain labels were more notorious than others.
Anyone have theories or inside info? I've spent
countless hours trying to track down certain edits only
to find out it they don't exist...
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This happened more prior to the CD single. Though I have seen some CD singles contain listed times that clearly are way off. Billy Joel (the Entertainer if I recall) once commented essentially the perfect pop song is 3:05. If you will notice anything over 5 minutes usually has a label edit or a custom edit. Most recently songs are right around that 3:05 sweet spot they don't run long at all. The most recent Jonas Brothers, Ariana etc hit the charts between 2:45 and 3:00. Songs are not getting longer they are getting shorter.
I also think back then if you said a single was 3:59 and it was 4:18 the DJ's might play it since it was under 4 minutes the theory goes. All I know is that I agree it makes it hard sometimes to know what the actual time is, unless you time the 45, cd single or source...
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torcan
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| Posted: 19 June 2021 at 9:46pm | IP Logged
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PopArchivist wrote:
I also think back then if you said a single was 3:59
and it was 4:18 the DJ's might play it since it was
under 4 minutes the theory goes. All I know is that I
agree it makes it hard sometimes to know what the
actual time is, unless you time the 45, cd single or
source... |
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I think that's definitely true. As a 45 collector,
there were a LOT of singles released with a 3:59
printed timing during the '80s. I guess 4:00 was
still a bit of a barrier back then.
Interesting that songs were getting longer all through
the '70s and '80s, and they're getting shorter again
today. (Maybe "American Top 40" could go back to
three hours again! :) )
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 25 June 2021 at 5:35am | IP Logged
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A listener (reader?) from Italy sent the following info to me, regarding track durations on promo singles:
Quote:
I'm following as usual the forum and on this topic I can suggest a hint that, while true and proved for Italian releases, it may be true also for USA singles.
Basically the answer is: jukebox play. That does affect the singles market.
The big difference between USA and Italy market is that JB singles were special-releases white-label specific for JB only, sometimes sent out to radio too as a promo single - very few cases, since labels quickly used to group 4 to 6 A-side singles on a promo 12".
Since late 70's (the first one i can hold for sure is Rod Stewart Da Ya Think I'm Sexy) due to too-low volume for lengthy singles and less money-for-time, WEA groups labels began to shorten the longer hit single to 4:00 on their jb pressing. WEA JB longer singles were cut for JB with a early fade from 3:50 to 4:00.
Here's the two different releases:
commercial 45
https://www.discogs.com/Rod-Stewart-Da-Ya-Think-Im-Sexy/rele ase/2159710
jukebox 45:
https://www.discogs.com/Tony-Orlando-Rod-Stewart-Dont-Let-Go -Da-Ya-Think-Im-Sexy/release/3559680
Notice on this above the B side matrix, which is specific for the promo release:
Matrix / Runout (Label side A): 45501/1
Matrix / Runout (Runout side A): W-12311-1
Matrix / Runout (Runout side B): PR-071 B
With this logic behind, that lead to a serious mess during the years because not always the JB single matched the commercial one.... but someone else followed this path, at least in numbers only.
From 1982 the Polygram group slowly started to print the time on the JB label as 3:30 even if the real matrix of the JB single was the same as the commercial one, that had a longer run time.
Case in point Mark Knopfler, Going Home
commercial pressing, running 3:57
https://www.discogs.com/Mark-Knopfler-Going-Home-Theme-Of-Th e-Local-Hero/release/13880819/image/SW1hZ2U6NDExNzAyNDk=
JB pressing, listed 3:30 but using the same matrix as the commercial 45:
https://www.discogs.com/Mark-Knopfler-Paul-Slade-Going-Home- Theme-Of-The-Local-Hero-Friend/release/4744724
Matrix / Runout (Runout Groove Side A): 811 0367 1 1 520 07 03 83
Matrix / Runout (Runout Groove Side AA): 811 6257 1 1 520 19 03 83
811 0367 is the matrix number on the runout of the commercial 45.
Not all labels did that shortening way, real or on paper-only, so this does provoke quite a headache tracking down exactly as were the Italian JB singles after 1978. The Polygram 3:30 issue is very serious because it may be everything: early fade, edit, or nothing changed. No way to know it for 1 and 2 unless you have the physical single played in front of you.
There are also examples of the opposite (JB single longer than commercial single) but these are rare oddities (Dylan Changing of the Guard 1978 jb single plays the full LP version while commercial one has the shorter USA single, or Ad Visser & Daniel Sahuleka – Giddyap A Gogo, where the commercial 7" single run 3:45 but the JB one runs 4.50 that is the 12" version, which was the real hit). |
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garye
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| Posted: 06 July 2021 at 10:15pm | IP Logged
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Most music directors at hit stations weren't fooled very
much by any label miss timing because when they added a
song and carted it up, if the timing was wrong and the
cart stopped before done recording, the reps would hear
about that next time they would drop by the station. And
most stations would time the song themselves before
adding it. It might have worked with Juke Boxes, but
usually not radio.
Still never figured out why some did that, because it
basically fooled no one.
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: track durations on promo material
