Top 40 Music on Compact Disc: Re-Entry mysteries

Active Topics

Memberlist

Help

Chat Board
Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board

Topic: Re-Entry mysteries

Author

Message

<< Prev Topic | Next Topic >>

hellogator
MusicFan

Joined: 16 May 2023
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10

Posted: 11 March 2024 at 7:47am \| IP Logged

I would like to solve some of the mysteries where titles
re-enter the chart or enter after a long delay.
Some mysteries are easy to solve, such as the reason "The
First Time Ever I Saw Your Face" was released about three
years because it was included in a film. Also "The Twist"
charted twice because two separate age groups became
interested during different years.
I can't figure out why Judy Collins "Send In The Clowns"
hit the Top 40 twice. Or why Olivia Newton-John's "I
Honestly Love You" barely missed the Top 40 in 1977. Any
ideas about those two?

I noticed another trend, especially in the 80's where a
huge Top 40 hit single, such as "Every Breath You Take",
Van Halen's "Jump", or "Dancing In The Dark" causes that
artist's back catalog to re-enter the album chart.
One other mystery I am trying to solve is the cause of
seven Beatles albums to re-chart in March 1984. There
weren't any Beatles songs in the Top 40 that month, and
John Lennon's "Nobody Told Me" was released in January,
not March.
I was wondering if it was due to a Hall Of Fame Induction
or a Grammys Lifetime Achievement. Does anyone happen to
know?

Hykker
MusicFan

Joined: 30 October 2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1386

Posted: 11 March 2024 at 8:04am \| IP Logged

"I Honestly Love You" seems to have been reissued in 1977, since it has a different catalog # from the 1974 release. No idea why, maybe
featured in a movie? Maybe Paul H. can shed some light on this...was a catalog single (ie-not one that was being re-worked by the label)
eligible for re-charting in those days or did it have to be a currently issued 45?
Today anything goes, but I'd thought things were more structured in the old days.

One you didn't mention was "Light My Fire"'s recharting in 1968, doubly odd since "Hello I Love You" was current then.

Paul Haney
MusicFan

Joined: 01 April 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1743

Posted: 11 March 2024 at 9:21am \| IP Logged

"Send In The Clowns" was reissued due to the release of the film version of the Broadway musical "A Little Night Music."

"I Honestly Love You" was reissued to help promote Oliva's first Greatest Hits album on MCA.

The Beatles albums charted in 1984 because Capitol did a huge publicity push for the band's 20th Anniversary of landing in
America.

Edited by Paul Haney on 11 March 2024 at 9:25am

FrankG
MusicFan

Joined: 31 March 2019
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 26

Posted: 11 March 2024 at 12:39pm \| IP Logged

In addition to what Paul wrote below, I believe that
Elektra re-released "Send In The Clowns" because it was
also featured on Judy's 1977 compilation LP, "So Early In
The Spring: The First Fifteen Years". The LP charted on
8/6/77, the single re-charted on 9/24/77, and the movie
version of "A Little Night Music" opened in theaters on
9/30/77. It was a case of good luck and timing in cross-
marketing.

As far as I can tell, the movie was not a hit. It has a
rating of 17 on Rotten Tomatoes. ;-)

Paul Haney wrote:

"Send In The Clowns" was reissued due
to the release of the film version of the Broadway musical
"A Little Night Music."

"I Honestly Love You" was reissued to help promote Oliva's
first Greatest Hits album on MCA.

The Beatles albums charted in 1984 because Capitol did a
huge publicity push for the band's 20th Anniversary of
landing in
America.

thecdguy
MusicFan

Joined: 14 August 2019
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 633

Posted: 11 March 2024 at 5:08pm \| IP Logged

Quote:

One you didn't mention was "Light My
Fire"'s recharting in 1968, doubly odd since
"Hello I Love You" was current then.

I was under the impression it was to see how
it would compete against the Jose Feliciano
version which was on the charts at the time.
Kind of like how the original '67 version of
Bobbie Gentry's "Ode To Billy Joe" re-charted
in 1976 alongside the newly recorded version.

__________________
Dan In Philly

Paul Haney
MusicFan

Joined: 01 April 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1743

Posted: 12 March 2024 at 4:03am \| IP Logged

As far as reissues go, in the "old days" as long as a single was getting reported by stores and radio stations as a "current" it was
eligible to chart and didn't necessarily need to be on a new label and/or catalog number (though many often were). Labels had a much
tighter control on those things back then and it was a rarity when it actually happened. Nowadays, any song can come back on the charts at
any time if it gets enough streaming points to chart in the Top 50 of any given week. All you need to do is look at the Hot 100 any given
December to see that happen with all the old Christmas songs.

Hykker
MusicFan

Joined: 30 October 2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1386

Posted: 12 March 2024 at 5:21am \| IP Logged

thecdguy wrote:

I was under the impression it was to see how
it would compete against the Jose Feliciano
version which was on the charts at the time.

You're probably right though it seems odd that Elektra would re-issue it given that it was only a year old, and the Doors already had a
song on the charts. Doubt it got any airplay (other than as an oldie), but I suppose some bought it who'd missed it first time around.

Not many record stores stocked oldies back then, so if you didn't get a song while it was on the charts you were outta luck.

AndrewChouffi
MusicFan

Joined: 24 September 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1092

Posted: 12 March 2024 at 8:40am \| IP Logged

Speaking of "Send In The Clowns", can anyone point to the
first place & time the alternate lyric version (with a
'Send in the clowns replacing 'there ought to be clowns')
was released either promotionally or commercially?

Thanks!

Andy

Scanner
MusicFan

Joined: 14 August 2019
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 214

Posted: 13 March 2024 at 5:38pm \| IP Logged

The mystery to me of re-entries is how they are treated by
Record Research. My first Hot 100 book (1993) listed "I
Honestly Love You" twice. Although the 1974 and 1977
recordings were identical, the records were not -
1974's was the second single from Olivia's "If You Love Me
Let Me Know" album and 1977's was the first and only
single from her "Greatest Hits." (Both records also had
different B-sides.) Later editions combined both chart
runs and listed "Honestly" only once on its original chart
entry in 1974.

Fast forward nearly three decades to Tim McGraw's "Live
Like You Were Dying." Record Research lists the song
twice for its original chart run in 2004 and subsequent
re-entry for three weeks in 2005. Unlike the Hot 100 in
Olivia's heyday which charted records, the Hot 100 in the
21st Century has instead been charting songs. Even if the
2005 version of McGraw's song differed from the 2004
version, Billboard counts all versions of a song as one -
how else did "Old Town Road" clock 19 weeks at #1?

So, how does Record Research determine how many times to
report a song which has been re-released or simply re-
charts due to a resurgence (e.g. artist's passing;
placement in a commercial, TV show, film, etc.)?

Hykker
MusicFan

Joined: 30 October 2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1386

Posted: 14 March 2024 at 5:25am \| IP Logged

Scanner makes a good point. I would consider if a song drops out of the Hot 100, then re-enters within a short amount of time then it should
be considered part of the same chart run. A re-entry a year or more later does not IMHO. Certainly not in the case of the ONJ song, where
the 1977 re-entry 45 had a different catalog #.

What was BB's policy on charted weeks in these circumstances?

Paul Haney
MusicFan

Joined: 01 April 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1743

Posted: 14 March 2024 at 6:24am \| IP Logged

Just to clarify, in our most recent edition(s) of Top Pop Singles, "I Honestly Love You" is in fact shown as two separate entries.

Joel used to go around and around on this subject. When I first started at Record Research in 1992, he thought that a song had to be off the chart for at
least six months before it was considered a new entry. Then he changed it to a year, then back to six months, then back to a year, etc. I always thought
that being off for at least a year made the most sense. As the years went by, the way the Hot 100 is compiled makes it easier for old songs to come
back for whatever reason, be it an artist's passing, a viral video, a seasonal re-entry, whatever. The Christmas songs have been the biggest issue and for
the Top Pop Singles, instead of counting them as separate "hits" we lump them together with the chart info in trivia, but for the upcoming Pop Annual
they'll be shown separately in each year.

Another sticky situation in recent years is when a song that's been out for a while suddenly gets a remix or a guest artist added to it. Billboard lumps all
of the versions together and credits the one with the most points in any given week (which means the credits can change from week to week). We
usually handle these with a trivia note as they are a different animal than the straight reissues.

Edited by Paul Haney on 14 March 2024 at 6:28am

rnell
MusicFan

Joined: 19 September 2006
Location: Argentina
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 71

Posted: 14 March 2024 at 7:17am \| IP Logged

Paul, I wonder what you usually do with Christmas re-entrys
when a Christmas song has the highest position of the
Season on the early January chart instead of the late
December one (depending on closing date of the charts
changing each year). For example Beach Boys Little Saint
Nick achieved its highest position this last Christmas on
the January 6th chart (#25). How would this song appear in
your tabulation for 2024 (for your Pop Annual book) if next
Christmas the song has a higher position than #25? Do you
consider the whole Christmas period for a Christmas song
instead of the individual year? Thanks

Paul Haney
MusicFan

Joined: 01 April 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1743

Posted: 14 March 2024 at 7:34am \| IP Logged

rnell wrote:

We always consider the Christmas songs to peak in December, even if the actual dates fall to early January.

torcan
MusicFan

Joined: 23 June 2006
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 269

Posted: 14 March 2024 at 1:48pm \| IP Logged

Hykker wrote:

What was BB's policy on charted weeks in these
circumstances?

If you're asking "how many Weeks On Chart were shown on
the printed chart", then it all depends on the era. From
approx the early '70s to the mid-late '80s, whenever a
song re-entered, it always started over again at 1 -
meaning the total weeks on the chart were not actually
correct. (There were rare cases where they showed the
combined total. "Baby Come To Me" is one of those cases,
but they didn't do it for quite a while).

Starting in the later part of the '80s, whenever a song
re-entered they showed the total combined weeks - as long
as it was the original recording or a remix. If it was a
newly recorded version, then it started at "1".

Same was true on the album chart but they started showing
the combined weeks much earlier - around mid-1983.

I think it all had to do with the Chart Director. The
famous Bill Wardlow didn't seem to want to do it, but
when Tom Noonan took over, that's when things started
making more sense.

RoknRobnLoxley
MusicFan

Joined: 25 October 2017
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 92

Posted: 15 March 2024 at 7:45am \| IP Logged

Paul Haney wrote:

Just to clarify, in our most recent edition(s) of Top Pop Singles, "I Honestly Love You" is in fact shown
as two separate entries. [ ... ]

The Christmas songs have been the biggest issue and for
the Top Pop Singles, instead of counting them as separate "hits" we lump them together with the chart info in trivia, but for
the upcoming Pop Annual
they'll be shown separately in each year.

Excellent solution Paul, I very much like this eye deer !! I'm also interested in how 1969 and after flip sides will be
treated in this new Pop Annual. Such as, "Come Together/Something" and "The Long And Winding Road/For You Blue" were both
treated differently in the previous 1999 and 2011 Pop Annuals. With "For You Blue" even being absent from the annual part of
the 2011 book, but was shown in the title index as a flip. (I would prefer that if both sides showed up together in a BB
chart position, then that's how they would show up in the Pop Annual, but eye don't no nuthin'...)

Thanks for all you do !!

Search for other posts by RoknRobnLoxley

Paul Haney
MusicFan

Joined: 01 April 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1743

Posted: 16 March 2024 at 4:45am \| IP Logged

It looks like we're going to repeat the list of "tag along" B-sides that we printed in the 2016 version of the Pop Annual. It's
too late in the editing process to change our program. We want to have this book printed by June.

PopArchivist
MusicFan

Joined: 30 June 2018
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1524

Posted: 17 March 2024 at 4:15pm \| IP Logged

I think Twist and Shout by the Beatles re-charted in 1986 due to it being included in the movie Ferris Bueller's Day Off....

__________________
"I'm a pop archivist, not a chart philosopher, I seek to listen, observe and document the chart position of music."

Paul Haney
MusicFan

Joined: 01 April 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1743

Posted: 18 March 2024 at 3:45am \| IP Logged

PopArchivist wrote:

I think Twist and Shout by the Beatles re-charted in 1986 due to it being included in the
movie Ferris Bueller's Day Off....

Also the Rodney Dangerfield movie Back To School.

Edited by Paul Haney on 18 March 2024 at 3:46am

music4life75
MusicFan

Joined: 17 August 2020
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 54

Posted: 19 March 2024 at 4:21am \| IP Logged

MTV would play the Rodney Dangerfield version a lot. I bought it, but to
my surprise, it never charted. I think Rodney phoned this one in unlike
Rappin Rodney. Also, whose idea was it to release Surfin Bird by Pee
Wee Herman, as a single. Obviously, it was because of the movie Back To
The Beach.

Paul Haney
MusicFan

Joined: 01 April 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1743

Posted: 19 March 2024 at 9:58am \| IP Logged

I actually purchased the 45 of Pee-Wee Herman's "Surfin' Bird" at the time. It even came with a picture sleeve!

Page of 2 Next >>

Printable version

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

This page was generated in 0.0586 seconds.