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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 16 February 2005 at 1:16pm | IP Logged
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I thought it might be a good idea to create a thread where people can post warnings about dropouts, distortion, truncated fades, and other flaws and deficiencies they've encountered on CD. Maybe Pat might even want to print some of them in his book to warn other readers. I have several here get the ball rolling:
Chic - Le Freak: On Mega Hits Dance Classics Volume 10 (Priority 7059), the song's pitch suddenly slows down at the 2:43 mark as though the tape source was dragging.
John Parr - Naughty Naughty: On 18 Screamers from the 80's (JCI 3143) and 80's Rock Classics - Party Town (Simitar 55142), the sound quality is decent during the first 1:13 or so but then gradually becomes muffled as the song progresses. By the end of the song, the sound quality has degraded so badly that nearly all fidelity is lost! Obviously, a dreadfully inferior tape source was used here and anyone looking specifically for "Naughty Naughty" on CD should stay away from these discs. You can find the song in excellent, fully intact sound quality on John Parr (One Way 35176) and Greatest Hits of the 80's (Platinum A26823) (the latter title is not in Pat's book).
Restless Heart - I'll Still Be Loving You: There's a dropout in the left channel at 3:25 on Country Music Classics Volume VII (K-Tel 3048).
Sheriff - When I'm with You: There's a bad dropout in the left channel from 3:00-3:01 on Romantic Hits of the 80's (K-Tel 898).
Edited by Todd Ireland on 22 June 2005 at 1:40am
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aaronk
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Good idea, Todd.
Survivor - Eye Of The Tiger from the Rock Of The 80s CD (CBS 44363) has poor sound/fluttering in the right channel throughout the song from a bad tape. I'm not sure if other copies have the same problem.
Brothers Johnson - Stomp! from Funk Classics - The 80s (Rebound 20365) has dropouts/fluttering in the right channel throughout the song from a bad tape. Dropout is most noticeable during the chorus. I've heard the same problem on at least one other compilation that has the 45 version.
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Pat Downey
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Yes I will be interested in entries made on this thread and will enter appropriate information in my database for the next edition of Top 40 Music On CD.
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aaronk
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The Police - Roxanne from Every Breath You Take: The Classics and Message In A Box: The Complete Recordings, the pitch starts slow and gradually speeds up from 0:00 to 0:03.
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aaronk
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Warren G & Nate Dogg - Regulate on Def Jam's Greatest Hits (36377) has a big digital "click" at 3:04. Does anyone else's copy do this? My CD is in mint condition, but if nobody else has this problem, then maybe it's just my disc.
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aaronk
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One more I just thought of...nearly half the tracks on Sly & The Family Stone Greatest Hits sound like they're out of phase. They seem to have corrected the problem (especially noticeable on "Everybody Is A Star") on The Essential compilation.
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EdisonLite
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This is a great thread for this board. There is a glitch on all CD copies of Melissa Manchester's "Don't Cry Out Loud" at 0:26 on the line "while she danced without a net upon the wire." It occurs during the word "she" -- there's a dropout such that the word "she" only appears on one channel. This is most noticeable on headphones.
I know why all the CDs are this way. They were mastered from the LP master, which also has the same exact glitch. What's most interesting is that the glitch does not occur on the 45, so all it would take to remedy the problem is to use the single master for CD, but NO ONE has ever done that.
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Todd Ireland
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Herb Alpert - This Guy's in Love with You: On Classics Volume 1 (A&M 2501) and Definitive Hits (A&M 069490886), the recording is very hissy. I'm guessing this is probably also the case with the song's other CD appearances.
Lita Ford - Kiss Me Deadly: On Platinum & Gold Collection (RCA/BMG Heritage 61120), the word "I" is clipped off the song's intro where the vocals begin cold. In other words, the first verse is: "Went to a party last Saturday night", instead of: "I went to a party last Saturday night". This CD was released after the 10th edition was published, so it will likely be included in the 11th edition.
Michael McDonald - I Keep Forgettin' (Every Time You're Near): A low hum is noticeable throughout the song on Very Best of (Warner Archives/Rhino 76649).
Elvis Presley - Loving You: This sounds very hissy on Elvis 2nd to None (RCA/BMG 55895). It may also be hissy on other CDs, but I haven't yet gotten around to checking any of these discs.
The Troggs - Wild Thing; With a Girl Like You; I Can't Control Myself; and Love Is All Around: These songs all sound grungy and distorted on Best of (Fontana 314522841).
Van Halen - Finish What Ya Started: On The Best of Both Worlds (Warner 78961), there appears to be some kind of fade-out glitch because the song ends very abruptly in mid-note instead of fading out. (At least, I'm pretty sure it's supposed to fade out... unless the ending is intended to be a comedic nod to the song's title, but I highly doubt it. If so, then the joke is on me!) This CD was released after the 10th edition was published, so it will likely be included in the 11th edition.
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80smusicfreak
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I can set the record straight for you on Van Halen's
"Finish What Ya Started", Todd - you can blame Eddie &
Alex for that one! (I have "The Best of Both Worlds" as
well.)
For folks interested in staying on top of which new CD
releases are about to come out here in the U.S. each week
(both current & re-issues), I highly recommended picking
up a monthly magazine called "ice". (Visit their official
web site at www.icemagazine.com.) Lately each issue has
been 32 pages, and it has a cover price of $3.95. It's
been publishing since 1987(!), and I've been buying it
every month myself for 11 years now (and saved every one
of 'em, too). The March, 2005, issue (#216) just hit
stands within the last few days...
At any rate, the magazine also has a regular column
called "the cd watchdog". It provides a forum for readers
to write in w/ their complaints about any new CD releases
(which is the essence of this new thread that you started
here on the chat board). If found to be true (or if they
receive multiple complaints about the same CD), the
magazine then contacts the record labels, producers,
etc., in an attempt to get the scoop, and whether or not
the problem(s) will be corrected on future pressings. Of
course, VH being the immensely popular band that they
are, many other fans also noticed the supposed "glitch"
at the end of "Finish What Ya Started". Consequently, the
magazine was evidently bombarded w/ questions about the
mastering of the song on the "Best of Both Worlds"
collection. I'll go ahead and re-type the magazine's
detailed response to its readers in that column, as it
appeared in the September issue (#210) from last year:
To find out what happened, ICE contacted Rhino as this
issue was closing, at the very end of July. The label had
been working with producer Glen Ballard on a statement
explaining that it wasn't a mistake at all, it was
intentional. At the very last minute, Ballard submitted
his explanation, which was passed on to ICE with just
hours to spare, and which reads as follows:
"There's a great irony associated with our choice to
present 'Finish What Ya Started' in a way that belies the
title. We retrieved the analog master from the WB vault
only to learn that it needed to be treated, or 'cooked,'
to restore its ability to be reproduced on the analog
machine.
"The original two-track mix ends exactly as presented on
the new 'Best of Both Worlds.' In the first mastering of
the record nearly 20 years ago, it was faded manually,
and that is the way it appears on the original 'OU812.'
We literally decided to let it 'Finish' in its truly
original form, almost like a 'director's cut.' To the
legions of Van Halen fans who remember it the other way,
we can only hope that the added one second of music and
its slightly truncated ending represents a unique version
of a song that we all know and love, and becomes in its
own right a collector's item.
"We have spent hundreds of hours in conjunction with Ed
and Alex [Van Halen] pondering the tone, texture and
tenure of these amazing recordings, and we appreciate the
responses from the many listeners who cherish this music.
It has represented a sacred mission for all of us and we
present it to you with love, respect and passion, and if
you hear something you might have missed before, please
realize it is included to present what we deem to be the
more complete archive of this amazing band. Sincerely,
Glen Ballard."
I'm sure Pat will include some sort of note in the 11th
edition next to this version of "Finish What Ya Started",
but as you can see, it was definitely not a
"glitch"...
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Bob Lovely
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| Posted: 23 February 2005 at 7:22pm | IP Logged
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Todd Ireland wrote:
| Elvis Presley - Loving You: This sounds very hissy on Elvis 2nd to None (RCA/BMG 55895). It may also be hissy on other CDs, but I haven't yet gotten around to checking any of these discs. |
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Todd, the tape hiss you hear is simply a part of a vintage 1957 recording. Use of NR only serves to remove some musicality in addition to the tape hiss. This hiss is a bit less audible on the new Kevan Budd-mastered CD of Loving You.
Quote:
| The Troggs - Wild Thing; With a Girl Like You; I Can't Control Myself; and Love Is All Around: These songs all sound grungy and distorted on Best of (Fontana 314522841). |
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These tracks were recorded this way. Mastering cannot change this.
Bob
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Todd Ireland
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Bob:
I think the hiss on "Loving You" is a bit excessive even for a 1957 recording, but your points are well taken. In the future, I won't single out any Top 40 songs released prior to the early '70s for being "hissy" unless the problem is unique to one or several CDs.
As for the Troggs, I honestly don't think their songs sound as poorly on most other discs I've heard as they do on Best of (Fontana 314522841). For instance, I think "Wild Thing" has noticeably less grunge and distortion on 45's on CD Volume 3 (Rebound 314520509). Also, have you heard the stereo remix of "Love Is All Around" on the recently released Dick Bartley Presents: Classic Oldies 1965-1969 (Eric 11525)? I think it sounds great actually!
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SomeCallMeTim
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The speed drop on "Le Freak" was present on my long-lost 45, too. Drove me crazy, because when I got the LP home, the much longer LP track sounded fine...UNTIL I used my very cutting-edge J.C. Penney cassette pause button to recreate the single version without the anomaly (sidenote - my parents used to yell at me to play a song all the way through or not at all - thought I was alone in the universe back then). Anyway, the SAME thing happened. Apparently, the beat slowed gradually during the session, and isn't noticeable during the very long bridge that was edited out for the 45. Atlantic's "correction" of this for their "Golden Age of Black Music" compilation makes the song after the edit sound sped-up, even though the meter remains consistant.
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 26 February 2005 at 11:49am | IP Logged
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To 80smusicfreak:
I appreciate your detailed explanation of the bizarre "Finish What You Started" ending on Van Halen's Best of Both Worlds. I would have to disagree with Mr. Ballard's assertion though that the song ends "slightly truncated". In actuality, the song ends very abruptly in mid note and makes for what I think many would agree is an extremely jarring listening experience.
To SomeCallMeTim:
I had no idea that the speed drop was actually present on the original "Le Freak" commercial 45! Wow, so can it really be then that the Mega Hits Dance Classics Volume 10 CD contains the "true" 45 version of "Le Freak", while the CDs containing the "corrected" pitch do not? I wonder if Atlantic ever released a different pressing of the 45 with the "corrected" pitch?
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Todd Ireland
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Vanity Fare - Early in the Morning: This sounds like it was mastered from vinyl on Super Hits of the 70's Volume 1 (Rhino 70921). The vinyl artifacts are most evident during the fade-out.
Speaking of which, I notice Pat lists all CD appearances of "Early in the Morning" as being the LP mix, which is in stereo. Am I correct in assuming the original 45 mix is in mono?
Also, I believe all CD appearances containing 45 versions of Mama's and Papa's hits, such as "I Saw Her Again", "Words of Love", and "Creeque Alley", are mastered from vinyl. It's been widely reported that the singles master tapes were accidentally erased several decades ago and no longer exist.
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 26 February 2005 at 12:56pm | IP Logged
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First, a point of clarification...
The low hum I initially reported on "I Keep Forgettin' (Every Time You're Near)" on Michael McDonald's Best of (Warner Archives/Rhino 76649) CD could be better described as a buzzing sound, possibly some sort of electrical "interference" from the mastering console. It seems to be coming more from the left channel and is more easily noticed through headphones.
Second, regarding Aaron's report on "Roxanne"...
My copy of the Police's Every Breath You Take: The Classics (A&M 314540380) has "Roxanne" start with a slower pitch during the first five seconds before it reaches normal speed. I also have the hybrid CD/SACD version of this disc released a couple years ago on A&M 93607, and the intro's pitch is "corrected". Have you checked the original 45 to see if the pitch starts slow on it? After reading SomeCallMeTim's claim that "Le Freak" has a pitch drop on the original 45, I can only assume anything is possible!
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davidclark
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regarding "Le Freak", I too have the original 45. I don't remember it slowing down, however. I will dig it out to determine if it indeed slows down as well.
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davidclark
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I dug out my original 45 of Le Freak (after having moved residence), and as I thought, it does not slow down. I remember first hearing the slow-down on that Priority disc and thinking it wasn't right.
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Todd Ireland
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Here's another one:
Brotherhood of Man - United We Stand: This song has a truncated fade on Super Hits of the 70's Volume 2 (Rhino 70922).
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 07 March 2005 at 8:15am | IP Logged
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davidclark wrote:
| I dug out my original 45 of Le Freak (after having moved residence), and as I thought, it does not slow down. I remember first hearing the slow-down on that Priority disc and thinking it wasn't right. |
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Hmmm... I wonder if you and SomeCallMeTim might have different pressings of the 45?
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edtop40
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i've listened to the 45 versus the version on the cd "mega hits vol 10" and they are identical..........
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: CD mastering flaws/glitches
