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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 01 October 2008 at 5:42pm | IP Logged
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I have what my Top Hits USA CD calls a "Radio Edit" on the following CDs:- Hot Hits Vol. 16 (runs 3:42, clips a bit)
- Now 1992 (UK; runs 3:39; clips a bit)
- Now 23 (UK; runs 3:40; clips a bit)
- Top Hits USA RH15 (runs 3:32 due to accelerated fade; doesn't clip but sounds worse than above three)
I have the album version on the following CDs:- Living In The '90s (Razor & Tie, runs 4:38; most likely a digital clone of Charles & Eddie CD; best sound of the bunch)
- 2 Awesome (PolyTel Canada, runs 4:38; level change from above CD, sound basically same as above but slightly higher dithering noise floor)
- Sounds Of The '90s - 1992 (runs 4:38; overly compressed - don't care much for the sound)
- Pop Complete (EMI Australian 5-CD set)
- Greatest Hits Of The '90s (European Disky 8-CD set)
Since the only versions of the "Radio Edit" seem to be mastered too loud, with clipping, I edited down the version from Living In The '90s to match the "Radio Edit". Pitch/tempo is the same for all versions above (101.1 BPM).
Here are the editing instructions, based on the timing from Living In The '90s:
Keep the 224 beats from 0:00.0-2:13.3.
Edit two beats before the downbeat, at the first tom-tom hit in a short drum fill.
Remove the 64 beats from 2:13.3-2:51.2.
Keep the 114-1/2 beats from 2:51.2-3:59.1.
Find the bass drum beat at 3:59 that starts the beginning of the background singers singing "lie", then edit on the off-beat snare that immediately follows the bass drum beat.
Remove the 32 beats from 3:59.1-4:18.1. The removed portion should end right before the snare that begins the word "C'mon".
Keep 4:18.1-4:38.6 (end).
Your mixdown should run 3:40 (3:41.7 with outro silence), with edits at 2:13.3 and 3:21.2.
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Hykker
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| Posted: 02 October 2008 at 5:52am | IP Logged
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I have the radio edit on a couple of TM GoldDiscs...come to think of it, the song sounds a bit clipped there as well. Anyone have a promo single to reference?
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edtop40
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| Posted: 02 October 2008 at 5:57am | IP Logged
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what do you guys mean by "clipping"?
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edtop40
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 02 October 2008 at 6:13am | IP Logged
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Ed:
It's when, at some points during the song, the audio become distorted
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eric_a
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| Posted: 02 October 2008 at 6:31am | IP Logged
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eriejwg wrote:
Ed:
It's when, at some points during the song, the audio become distorted |
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I always figured that clipping bass drum was an homage to the Motown sound. I can try to dig out the promo single.
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 02 October 2008 at 7:19am | IP Logged
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I should have been more clear with the term "clipping"...
For this particular song, it appears that at some point in the chain, someone sent the peak levels over 100%, so that the tops and bottoms of the waveform got shaved off. If you zoom in, you can see a hard cutoff for the waveform - it usually shows up on the drum hits first.
If you take this to its logical extreme, as is the case with most modern-day rock and pop song masterings, the audiophiles refer to this as "maximization" or "brick-walling". When you zoom out, the waveform just looks like one solid brick wall - no loud parts and soft parts, just LOUD start to finish. This is how virtually everything that hits the charts is mastered nowadays, and it really sounds horrendous.
"Would I Lie To You" is not brick-walled by any means, and the clipping that shows up in the single edits cited above aren't all that severe. Most wouldn't even notice it; I only noticed it because I had seven different versions of the song all open at the same time on my screen and I could clearly see the waveforms. The bass drum sound that Eric refers to is indeed deliberate, and isn't a result of the clipping.
As a sweeping generality, I've found that it's best if the waveforms peak all over the place during the song, and aren't hard-stopped at 0 dB (100%), -1 dB, -3 dB, or at any one particular level. Your results may vary.
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 02 October 2008 at 7:53am | IP Logged
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I know most of you deal with WAV files and burn them to CD.
But, if you happen to deal with MP3's, as I do with my older DJ software, you may want to check out MP3Gain. It's free and can bring audio to a more evenly distributed point throughout the file. Besides, MP3Gain is FREE.
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Hykker
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| Posted: 02 October 2008 at 4:59pm | IP Logged
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crapfromthepast wrote:
If you take this to its logical extreme, as is the case with most modern-day rock and pop song masterings, the audiophiles refer to this as "maximization" or "brick-walling". When you zoom out, the waveform just looks like one solid brick wall - no loud parts and soft parts, just LOUD start to finish. This is how virtually everything that hits the charts is mastered nowadays, and it really sounds horrendous. |
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An extreme example of this, if you follow contemporary music is Katy Perry's hit from a few months ago "I Kissed A Girl". This is compressed & hard-limited to the point where it's almost unlistenable. I haven't tried the program John suggested, but I did try some expansion with Adobe Audition and all it did was make the song "pump". I'm sure all this over-processing is to make Ipods sound "just like the radio", but no station I've ever set up processing on ever sounded this bad (though there are a few that I've come into where they were pretty close :-/)
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aaronk
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| Posted: 13 March 2010 at 4:04pm | IP Logged
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There are a couple database CDs that note "edited" next to them. It appears that they contain the official "Radio Edit" that Ron mentions above.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 13 March 2010 at 4:05pm | IP Logged
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One more thing: I noticed Amazon lists a US CD single with the "Radio Edit" as the lead track. Was the full album version on the cassette single, and is that why there is not a designator in the database? Certainly, the "Radio Edit" was the hit version.
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eric_a
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| Posted: 13 March 2010 at 7:18pm | IP Logged
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On a related note, here's the track list for the promo CD single (Capitol 73979), which does not include the LP version. All times are as listed, but are within a few seconds of the actual CD track lengths (including any trailing silence).
1 - Radio Edit (LP Version)* (3:40)
2 - Funky Way Mix (3:42)
3 - Truth & Soul Mix (3:57)
4 - Funky Way Mix (Extended Version) (5:00)
* I gather this refers to it being the radio edit of the LP mix, since the LP Version is a minute longer.
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 31 March 2011 at 12:02am | IP Logged
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For what it's worth, I have a commercial maxi-CD single of Charles & Eddie's "Would I Lie to You?" and it contains the following tracks and actual run times:
1) Album Edit - 3:40 (This is the same as the "Radio Edit".)
2) Funky Way Mix - 3:41 (printed time: 3:42)
3) Funky Way Mix (Extended) - 4:59 (printed time: 5:00)
4) Truth & Soul Mix - 3:56 (printed time: 3:57)
5) The Butcher Mix - 4:42 (printed time: 4:43)
Track 6 contains a song called "Unconditional".
The first four tracks of this maxi-CD single appear to be identical in every way to the promo CD single, as listed by eric_a, except for the chronological order and the description of Track 1.
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Topic: Charles and Eddie - "Would I Lie To You"
