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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 26 March 2011 at 9:35pm | IP Logged
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After recently listening to "We've Only Just Begun" on my Carpenters' Yesterday Once More 2-CD set on A&M 6601, I would submit that a "some instrumentation rerecorded; remixed" comment for this song should be listed next to this CD entry in the database.
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edtop40
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need some help, here class....all 3 of the cd's i have
with
the song 'we've only just begun'...'classic', 'gold' and
'singles 69-81' has a pronounced piano tinkle at the 0:39
mark....right during the lyrics 'before the rising sun,
we
fly'......in addition, my vinyl 45 starts off with the
piano intro, panned all the way in the left channel,
while
the cd versions have it centered and maybe a tad to the
right.....so it looks like all three of these cd's should
have the "some instrumentation rerecorded; remixed"
notation next to them.....do any of the cd's in the db,
have the piano tinkle removed and the piano intro panned
to
the left?
Edited by edtop40 on 08 June 2013 at 8:59am
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davidclark
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attn Carpenters fans!
I recently stumbled upon this website:
http://carpenters.amcorner.com/author/rudy
It is the best resource I have found for documenting the multiple times
their songs have been remixed, including the year and a brief description.
As well, it indicates on what CD each version resides (AND, not only US
CDs).
Although I can not vouch for its accuracy, given the mess Richard has
created, I believe it to be "pretty damn good". Pat's database does not
coincide with what's on this site in several instances (e.g., my copy of
"Love Songs contains a remix of "We've Only Just Begun", while Pat
indicates no version info). No fault to Pat, as I am sure he got frustrated
as well with "Carpenters on CD".
ed, "We've Only Just Begun" is indicated as being on several CDs. My
version (original mix) is from "Close To You" and the piano starts in the
left channel.
Edited by davidclark on 08 June 2013 at 9:29am
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The Hits Man
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About the only sure-fire way to get the single versions is
to get the original A&M or the "Forget Me Nots" reissue
45s.
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Brian W.
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The Hits Man wrote:
About the only sure-fire way to get the single versions is
to get the original A&M or the "Forget Me Nots" reissue
45s. |
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Or to get the Japanese CD Singles box.
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 09 June 2013 at 11:52pm | IP Logged
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edtop40 wrote:
| need some help, here class....all 3 of the cd's i have with the song 'we've only just begun'...'classic', 'gold' and 'singles 69-81' has a pronounced piano tinkle at the 0:39 mark....right during the lyrics 'before the rising sun, we fly'......in addition, my vinyl 45 starts off with the piano intro, panned all the way in the left channel, while the cd versions have it centered and maybe a tad to the right.....so it looks like all three of these cd's should have the "some instrumentation rerecorded; remixed" notation next to them.....do any of the cd's in the db, have the piano tinkle removed and the piano intro panned to the left? |
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Interesting, Ed... I have the Carpenters Ultimate Collection Holland import 3-CD set (Universal 983584) and I've always been under the impression all the tracks on this compilation consist of the original recordings. However, I just gave a quick listen to "We've Only Just Begun" and while the opening piano is panned hard left like you describe on the vinyl 45, the piano track does abruptly kick in at the :39 mark (it clearly sounds like an edit or tape splice was performed at this point). So you're saying there is no piano track beginning at :39 on the 45, Ed?
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edtop40
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| Posted: 10 June 2013 at 9:15am | IP Logged
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todd,
yes.....the vinyl 45 does NOT have this abrupt piano tinkle at the 0:39 mark......i will send you an mp3 of the vinyl 45 at the section and you can hear that there was definitely something added to the cd versions that are NOT on the vinyl 45....
edtop40
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edtop40
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| Posted: 10 June 2013 at 6:56pm | IP Logged
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ok......paul was kind enough to send me a copy of the song
from his dutch import cd titled 'The Ultimate Collection"
Holland import - Universal 983584'....and good news....it's
the same as the vinyl 45 i have.....i have just sent both
you and brian a copy of the vinyl 45 for your
review.....also...i sent you a copy of the cd version from
'a&m classics v2' which has an extra piano tinkle at the
0:39 mark, very noticeable if you do a headphone A/B side
by side listen......so....the three cd's i have,
'classics', 'gold' and 'singles 69-81' are all the remixed,
additional instrumentation' versions....this should be
noted in the db
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 10 June 2013 at 9:18pm | IP Logged
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Thanks to Ed, I was able to do an A/B comparison of "We've Only Just Begun" between his commercial 45 and the Ultimate Collection import CD set and I agree they are identical.
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Scanner
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I was listening to AT40 on Sirius and heard this song at
# 11. (I could not talk about a countdown show and
exclude the chart position! It had just fallen out of
the Top 10.) I was stunned when the version of the song
that was played was not the 1970 single version, but a
later version featuring that piano flourish that is first
played when Karen sings the "Before the rising sun, we
fly" lyric. I was stunned - I thought Sirius' AT40
programs were authentic and unchanged from when they
first aired. I'm reminded of this when Sirius plays
shortened versions of some songs as Kasem often did.
(I always found that very annoying back when...and still
do now!) So, did Sirius alter the past or was this piano
flourish version of "Begun" already circulating 51 years
ago? Considering how frequently Richard always tinkered
with their recordings, it wouldn't surprise me if he did
then already.
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PopArchivist
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Scanner wrote:
I was listening to AT40 on Sirius and heard this song at
# 11. (I could not talk about a countdown show and
exclude the chart position! It had just fallen out of
the Top 10.) I was stunned when the version of the song
that was played was not the 1970 single version, but a
later version featuring that piano flourish that is first
played when Karen sings the "Before the rising sun, we
fly" lyric. I was stunned - I thought Sirius' AT40
programs were authentic and unchanged from when they
first aired. I'm reminded of this when Sirius plays
shortened versions of some songs as Kasem often did.
(I always found that very annoying back when...and still
do now!) So, did Sirius alter the past or was this piano
flourish version of "Begun" already circulating 51 years
ago? Considering how frequently Richard always tinkered
with their recordings, it wouldn't surprise me if he did
then already. |
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A Carpenter thread (a rarity around here). If I remember reading at some point those original versions are in people's collections, Richard has tinkered with them so much that often I think these shows don't know the difference. I doubt this was the original 1970 version. Though if you can point to a clip, maybe crapfromthepast can answer your question he is our resident 1970 expert here...
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Hykker
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Scanner wrote:
I was stunned when the version of the song
that was played was not the 1970 single version, but a
later version featuring that piano flourish that is first
played when Karen sings the "Before the rising sun, we
fly" lyric. I was stunned - I thought Sirius' AT40
programs were authentic and unchanged from when they
first aired. |
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I was under the impression that many of the rerun AT40s had had the original vinyl dubs of the songs replaced
with CD rips. ISTR reading some discussion of this on one of the music boards.
Not sure why someone would feel the need to do this...it's not like used the same beat up, cueburnt 45 as some
of their affiliates...
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Scanner
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| Posted: 13 December 2021 at 9:13am | IP Logged
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I think you answered my question, Hykker. Sirius must
have been sourcing the music themselves for this
particular show. The Carpenters were preceded on the
countdown by the Supremes' "Stoned Love" and featured
Kasem's intro to the song after the song's cold opening.
Although I only discovered AT40 in the late 70's, I
don't recall Kasem talking over or after songs that
started with cold openings like "Stoned Love." Sirius
must alternate how it sources the music for AT40. Last
summer, I was listening to a 1978 countdown for the week
that "Boogie Oogie Oogie" debuted. The show played a
version of the song with the second verse and chorus
edited out which, as I mentioned before, Kasem often did
which made me expect the 1970 would be more "authentic."
Then again, it's amazing that a 50+ year old radio
program is still available in any form! I assume AT40
always provided the music for its shows as not all songs
would have been on a station's playlist or library when
aired.
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Paul Haney
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I just listened to the segment in question from the original 1970 recording of the show and the piano flourish is
not there and it sounds like the original 1970 version to me.
As has been mentioned, Premier has been known to replace recordings for the current radio rebroadcasts. Which is
why I highly recommend that people seek out the originals provided by Shannon Lynn.
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Scanner
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| Posted: 13 December 2021 at 3:52pm | IP Logged
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Thanks, Paul. I never realized I could learn so much about
AT40 just because of a piano flourish! :-)
BTW - I always thought this embellishment to "Begun" was
unnecessary. Richard's constant tinkering of Carpenters'
music over the decades has always been frustrating dating
back to "The Singles 1969-1973" and how the songs segued
into one another on Side 1. I never thought it would take
40+ years before a compilation, thanks to PBS, of their
singles in their original state would finally be released.
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eric_a
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Scanner wrote:
I assume AT40 always provided the music
for its shows as not all songs would have been on a
station's playlist or library when aired. |
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In general, the show has always been delivered to
affiliates as intact segments - first on reel-to-reel
tape, then eventually on vinyl, CD, and digitally. That's
why we're lucky enough to have such a complete record of
50+ years of archives.
If you're curious about specific songs, you might check
out the AT40 fan boards on Facebook. Shannon Lynn
frequents the discussions and speaks to specific choices,
which ones started with his remasters vs. down the chain
at Premiere or Sirius.
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crapfromthepast
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That's exactly right.
The reel-to-reel period was very brief - from the show's origin in July 1970 until late 1971.
The vinyl LPs lasted until the end of the prime AT40 years, until the late '80s at least.
The show was in mono until about 1973, then stereo thereafter.
The show began embedding national ads in 1982, when ABC acquired Watermark.
In general, the producers at AT40 selected which version of the song to use (commercial 45, promo 45, LP, in-house edit) based primarily on timing. They had to make the segments for each hour work out to exactly 60 minutes.
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eriejwg
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I can't think of the gentleman's name at this point, but
may of the earlier AT40 70's shows that air on Sirius have
mono2stereo conversion done by this gentleman.
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eriejwg
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*many of the earlier
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AndrewChouffi
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To John:
Ken Martin is the man credited with mono-to-stereo
conversion.
Andy
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: "We’ve Only Just Begun" - Carpenters
