| Author |
|
crapfromthepast
MusicFan
Joined: 14 September 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2238
|
| Posted: 23 May 2012 at 6:32pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I found what I think is a rerecording of the song. It turned up as a flac file in a lossless 1985 directory that I *ahem* found, with no useful tags. It runs about 4:57. In a side-by-side comparison, you can tell immediately that's something's amiss because the drum sounds are different. It's definitely Sade singing, but it's a different vocal take and different (but fairly close) instrumentation, and just a bit faster than the hit version. Anyone know where this came from? If you really want, I can send out copies of this, but it's really not all that interesting - it just sounds like a well-done knock off of the hit version.
The promo 45 version turned up first on the T.J. Martell Foundation/Columbia CD Music For The Miracle, where it runs 3:45, but sounds like a fairly high-generation tape source.
The compilers for Realm's Gold & Platinum Vol. 2 apparently thought they could do better for the promo 45 version. It sounds to my ears like they took the song from vinyl! (Can anyone confirm? I hear what I think is low-frequency turntable rumble before the first note and on the end of the fade.) The EQ is extremely bright on this track. This disc, despite being one of the very earliest pop compilations (from 1986!), takes its entire track listing from Music For The Miracle but has early fades on almost every track. I do love old compilations, but I'd recommend avoiding this one.
Edited by crapfromthepast on 24 May 2012 at 7:17am
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
KentT
MusicFan
Joined: 25 May 2008
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 650
|
| Posted: 24 May 2012 at 6:03am | IP Logged
|
|
|
The UK mix only has a single tracked vocal. The US has a double tracked vocal remix.
__________________
I turn up the good and turn down the bad!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
crapfromthepast
MusicFan
Joined: 14 September 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2238
|
| Posted: 25 May 2012 at 8:28am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Okay. Got it figured out, thanks to the terrific post below from Jeff H. on the Steve Hoffman board. I, apparently, stumbled across the first version of the song, which is UK LP version, originally released as the B-side to the UK single "Your Love Is King". The second version of the song was the hit version that we all know.
This is a YouTube clip with the audio in question, before it segues into a neato instrumental.
Jeff H.;5423688 wrote:
The version of "Smooth Operator" that appears on the original UK LP and CD pressings of "Diamond Life" are not only different mixes but completely different versions entirely. That first version of "Smooth Operator" (seguing into the instrumental "Shark Bite") originally was released as a B-side track on the UK 12" of "Your Love Is King" in February of 1984. Before the album was released in the UK, the song was re-recorded by the band and released as a single in September of that year. That is the version that became a top 20 single in the UK, and was the hit version that went to #5 in the US, and was included on the American release of the album. But Epic Records in the UK used the original recording of "Smooth Operator" (with the "Shark Bite" instrumental removed) on the album there, while US Epic subsidiary Portrait Records used the second version.
The "single" edit that is missing the spoken intro was the version released on the UK 45 release of the song and runs 4:15. The US LP version was the one that was also used for the US 45 release that clocks in at 4:54. That shorter edit (faded earlier at 3:57) was initially only issued in the US on a promotional 45 and on the B-side of the promo 12" single. The first time that the edit was commercially released in the US was on the "The Best Of Sade" CD in 1994. |
|
|
Edited by crapfromthepast on 25 May 2012 at 8:30am
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
AndrewChouffi
MusicFan
Joined: 24 September 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1091
|
| Posted: 25 May 2012 at 10:11am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Speaking of "neato instumentals", does anyone know where I can obtain, digitally, the full 8:47 version of "Smooth Operator" (the one released in the USA promotionally on Portrait AS 2013)? The second half of this version is awesome; I believe it came to be known as "Red Eye" in the UK.
Andy
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Fetta
MusicFan
Joined: 26 April 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 389
|
| Posted: 26 May 2012 at 12:50pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I do have a needle drop taken from an unplaced 12" promo if anyone is
interested.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Todd Ireland
MusicFan
Joined: 16 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4219
|
| Posted: 28 May 2012 at 5:55am | IP Logged
|
|
|
The database currently shows "Smooth Operator" on The Best of Sade CD (Epic 66686 and Epic 85287) with the comment: "neither the 45 nor LP version".
In light of the new information on this thread, it would probably be more accurate to have that comment modified to read something like: "this is the U.K. 45 version, which is an edit of the U.S. 45 and LP version".
It's also likely that the other database CDs where "Smooth Operator" runs 4:14-4:15 is also the U.K. 45 version.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
EternalStatic
MusicFan
Joined: 28 September 2019
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 253
|
| Posted: 16 December 2020 at 10:12am | IP Logged
|
|
|
A handful of things I wanted to add:
1) For those who may still be seeking the "full 8:47 version" of "Smooth Operator" with the instrumental ending, it has finally been released on an import CD: the Blank & Jones compilation So80s (SoEighties) 12.
The producers of this series seem to pride themselves on acquiring original master tapes when possible, and at least in these later volumes, do some really well-balanced, not overly compressed mastering. I have this
track and think it sounds great.
2) The next-to-last sentence in the note above that was imported from Steve Hoffman's forum appears to be incorrect, or a touch misleading. The poster appears to be making an assumption that the 3:57 North American
"Short Version" of the song (which appears on a U.S. promo 45, a U.S. promo 12", and the Canadian commercial 45) is a simple early fade of the UK single version, but as most here know, this "promo 45" version rearranges the song
significantly, and one would not be able to re-create the edit by simply fading the UK single version early.
3) It's been 8 years and I'm sure you got some concurrence elsewhere-- but yes, Ron, the Gold and Platinum transfer of the "Short Version" sounds me to be taken from vinyl or an nth generation tape (which I would
think to be unlikely given the limited number of releases that version had).
Edited by EternalStatic on 16 December 2020 at 10:15am
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
EternalStatic
MusicFan
Joined: 28 September 2019
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 253
|
| Posted: 16 December 2020 at 10:58am | IP Logged
|
|
|
So, I had attempted this many times through the years, but never ended up with a final result that I liked, but today, I completed a pretty flawless re-creation of the U.S. "Short Version" (which was the
version I heard consistently on the radio in the mid-'80s). I am sharing my edit points and notes below in case anyone else needs them/wants to give it a shot.
Note: if you're like me, and a little OCD about keeping the beat/rhythm correct in your editing, be ready to relax your eyes a little when performing these edits. It will look like you are moving
the next beat a little bit too far to the left on, well, most of the cuts made--but this is necessary to avoid including bits of errant vocals here and there. Apparently, Ms. Adu had a habit of leading
into the beat, which is a great jazzy touch, but frustrating for an editor.
So, the U.S. "Short Version" can be re-created from either the full U.S. LP/CD version, or from the UK Single Version. I started with the UK Single Version as found on Epic's The Best of Sade.
(If you were to use the full U.S. LP/CD version, you would need to add another step at the beginning where you edit out the spoken intro):
1) You will need two copies of your source file to do this easily. We'll call them "A" and "B". (File "A" will be for your main editing work, and file "B" will be to keep you from pulling your
hair out when you realize that the portion of the song you need for the 2nd edit has already been edited out by your 1st edit.)
2) So, for file "A": Cut about 48 seconds from 1:37.032 to 2:25.346. This will take you from the halfway point of the first chorus straight to the actual second verse, removing all traces of the
"Coast to coast..." lyrics and the jazzy musical breakdown that follows. Edit is on the downbeat concurrent with the word "Coast", but I think I had to pull the edit just slightly "to the left" to avoid
the "C" in "Coast".
3) From File "B" (which should be an undisturbed file, identical to the one you started with), copy 1:53.152 to End of File. Paste (or "Replace") into File "A" at 2:33:354. In your edited file,
this should result in cutting from halfway through the second chorus to the jazzy musical breakdown at 2:33:354, again aborting the "Coast to coast..." section. You can discard file "B" now.
4) From the resultant file: Cut 43 seconds from 3:05.541 to 4:01.858. Finally, the "Coast to coast..." lyrics/second half of the chorus makes an appearance!
5) From the resultant file: Delete from about 3:48.800 to end of file.
6) From the resultant file: The fade starts about about 3:28 on the word "operator". I used a bell curve from here to the end of the file, and it matched the promo 12" rip that I used as a guide
just fine.
I am also happy to share my edit as a guide if needed.
(My apologies if this information is already out there somewhere, I searched and did not find!)
Edited by EternalStatic on 16 December 2020 at 11:01am
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
EternalStatic
MusicFan
Joined: 28 September 2019
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 253
|
| Posted: 16 December 2020 at 11:08am | IP Logged
|
|
|
**One more thing, and I apologize for multiple posts, but every time I add something to the above post, the margins for the entire thing fall apart. Going off of both the Gold and Platinum CD transfer, and the promo 12", the true
"Short Version" might run a hair slower than the source file (from The Best of Sade). It's hard to validate, since the G&P mastering is very poor, and my other reference copy is from vinyl, so it could actually be
playing a touch too slow in truth.
I experimented with slowing down by about 1% and it sounds fine either way.
Edited by EternalStatic on 16 December 2020 at 11:09am
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
AutumnAarilyn
MusicFan
Joined: 22 August 2019
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 181
|
| Posted: 16 December 2020 at 3:01pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Here's the promo 45 artifact in question!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmcV-YHeYR4
The Red Eye long mix is also on Ben Liebrand's Grand 12
inches vol 17 in addition to the Blank & Jones – So80s
(Soeighties) volume 12.
Edited by AutumnAarilyn on 16 December 2020 at 3:19pm
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
EternalStatic
MusicFan
Joined: 28 September 2019
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 253
|
| Posted: 16 December 2020 at 4:17pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Thanks -- I was unaware of it being on the Liebrand release. If you have it, how does it sound? I find some of his releases to be heavily EQ'ed, but that isn't always a bad thing.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
AutumnAarilyn
MusicFan
Joined: 22 August 2019
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 181
|
| Posted: 16 December 2020 at 10:27pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Audio quality sounds good to my ears. I do notice once
something unique gets mastered it often ends up on other
compilations rather quickly. Liebrand's audio is usually
spot-on but I can't say that for his track selection. It
tends to include Euro-dance, post-disco electro, with
much sought after soul titles. He makes sure he gets one
on every release.
Edited by AutumnAarilyn on 16 December 2020 at 10:29pm
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
garye
MusicFan
Joined: 02 August 2017
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 156
|
| Posted: 17 December 2020 at 3:55pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I have promo edit and single edit on file.
Wish I could remember where the promo edit came from. It
was a from a compilation CD, but not the one mentioned
earlier.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
crapfromthepast
MusicFan
Joined: 14 September 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2238
|
| Posted: 17 December 2020 at 4:04pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Gary - There are only two choices for the promo 45 version:- T.J. Martell Foundation/Columbia's Music For The Miracle (1986) - likely a high-generation tape source
- Realm's Gold And Platinum Vol. 2 (1986) - likely taken from vinyl
Not ideal.
__________________
There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one Crap From The Past.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
RichM921
MusicFan
Joined: 30 October 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 146
|
| Posted: 18 December 2020 at 7:51am | IP Logged
|
|
|
crapfromthepast wrote:
Gary - There are only two choices for the
promo 45 version:- T.J. Martell Foundation/Columbia's Music
For The Miracle (1986) - likely a high-generation tape source
- Realm's Gold And Platinum Vol. 2 (1986) - likely taken from
vinyl
Not ideal. |
|
|
Isn't this version on The A List collection too?
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
crapfromthepast
MusicFan
Joined: 14 September 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2238
|
| Posted: 18 December 2020 at 10:03am | IP Logged
|
|
|
For this track, the version on The A List Disc 27 (1994) is based on the mastering of TM Century track no. 00006868. Both run about 3:58, which is about 12 second longer than the promo 45.
It looks like I'm going to have to write up a big post about "Smooth Operator"; give me a few days to find time for this...
__________________
There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one Crap From The Past.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
aaronk
Admin Group
Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6513
|
| Posted: 18 December 2020 at 2:29pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
An observation about the two CDs with the promo edit. It's Gold And Platinum Vol. 2 that sounds like it's from a really high generation tape. I've heard cassette tapes that have less hiss! Music For The Miracle, while not an audiophile masterpiece, actually sounds okay (at least not high generation tape). Neither one of these CDs sound like they are from vinyl.
__________________
Aaron Kannowski
Uptown Sound
91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
crapfromthepast
MusicFan
Joined: 14 September 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2238
|
| Posted: 20 December 2020 at 12:48am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I found an hour (well, closer to three) to play on the computer uninterrupted, so I took on "Smooth Operator".
Non-hit UK LP version, first released in 1983 as B-side of UK "Your Love Is King" 12-inch single
On the "Your Love Is King" 12 inch single B-side, the song is listed as "Smooth Operator / Snake Bite" with a printed time of 7:28. "Snake Bite" is a groovy instrumental, and it's hard to say where "Smooth Operator" ends and "Snake Bite" begins.
The UK LP is an early fade of the 12 inch single version, faded to about 4:57.
Musically, this version is played just a little more hesitantly than the more confident rerecording that followed. It's clearly the same band playing the same arrangement of the same song, but still working out the kinks in the song. It's also a bit faster, running at about 120 BPM throughout (it's a live drummer playing to a click track).
I'm not sure if this version ever appeared on CD.
12 inch single version
Sade rerecorded "Smooth Operator" is 1984. The rerecording is the hit version worldwide.
The 12 inch single is the full performance of the rerecording. The UK 12 inch single lists this full performance as "Smooth Operator" (printed 5:25) followed by "Red Eye" (printed 3:18). The US 12 inch single lists this full performance as just "Smooth Operator" (printed 8:47). If the YouTube videos of some high-quality turntables playing the 12 inch singles are correct, then it appears that the UK 12 inch single runs faster than the US 12 inch single. From what I can tell, there's a UK speed (about 119.0 BPM) and a US speed (about 118.0 BPM). I'm used to hearing the US speed, but I don't know what the actual speed of the recording session was.
I have the 12 inch single version on CD on the UK multi-disc collection So80s Vol. 12 (2019), where it runs about 119.3 BPM.
US LP and US 45 version (denoted as "Long Version" on promo 45, printed 4:54)
This is an early fade of the 12 inch single full performance, faded from about 4:38 to 4:57.
I assume that the US 45 and the US LP versions are the same length, but I didn't check.
This version appears at what I called the "US speed" (118.0 BPM) on:- the '80s-era pressing of Diamond Life (I'm not sure if I had the US or UK version; note that the printed time is 4:16)
- a CBS label promotional disc called EPA With Our Compliments (1987) - safe to say that you probably don't own this; different analog transfer than Diamond Life
- Sandstone's Cosmopolitan Vol. 7 (1993) - uses same analog transfer as Diamond Life; later repackaged as DCC's Night Moves Vol. 1 (1995) with the same tracks in a different order
This version also appears at what I called the "UK speed" (119.3 BPM) on:- Time-Life's 2-CD Body And Soul Vol. 21 No Control (2001)
- Sony's 5-CD Epic 50th Anniversary Collection (2003) - uses same analog transfer as the Time-Life disc
Discogs shows Diamond Life as being remastered in 2000, with the slightly shorter running time of the above two discs. I'm willing to bet that the remastered Diamond Life (2000) runs at the UK speed (119.3 BPM), and is the digital source for both of the above discs, but I can't confirm.
Summing up: If you're looking for the LP version at the US speed (118.0 BPM), go with the '80s-era Diamond Life if you want a full Sade album, or Sandstone's Cosmopolitan Vol. 7 (1993) if you want a compilation. Both sound about the same, and both sound very nice.
Promo 45 version ("Short Version" on promo 45, printed 3:59)
The promo 45 is edited down from the US LP/45 version. It includes some out-of-sequence edits, and it's best to approach this one in segments. Specifically, grab the following five segments, then piece them together.
I used the timing from Diamond Life, but the times should translate well to Cosmopolitan Vol. 7.
Segment 1
Begins on a downbeat
47 beats long
Ends one full beat (2 hi-hat hits) before the downbeat right before the spoken word "laughing"
Extends from 0:00 to 0:24.7 of the LP/45 version and the promo 45 version
Segment 2
Begins one full beat before a downbeat
145 beats long
Ends on a downbeat right at the start of the word "coast"
Extends from 0:24.7 to 1:38.4 of the promo 45 version
Extends from 0:57.2 to 2:11.0 of the LP/45 version
Segment 3
Begins on a downbeat right at the start of the word "face"
Almost 112 beats long
Ends before a downbeat at the start of the word "coast"
Extends from 1:38.4 to just before 2:35.3 of the promo 45 version
Extends from 2:59.8 to just before 3:56.8 of the LP/45 version
Segment 4
Begins just before a downbeat right at the beginning of the break/solo
A bit longer than 64 beats long
Ends on a downbeat right at the start of the word "face"
Extends from just before 2:35.3 to 3:07.9 of the promo 45 version
Extends from 2:27.2 to 2:59.8 of the LP/45 version
Segment 5
Begins on a downbeat right at the start of the word "coast"
75 beats long
Ends (as best as I could tell) on a snare hit right at the start of the word "operator"
Extends from 3:07.9 to 3:46.0 of the promo 45 version
Extends from 3:56.8 to 4:34.9 of the LP/45 version
Fade
Begins on the word "smooth"
27 beats long
Extends from 3:32.3 to 3:46.0 of the promo 45 version
Extends from 4:21.2 to 4:34.9 of the LP/45 version
Your mixdown will runs 3:46, will have edits at 0:24.7, 1:38.4, just before 2:35.3 (this one is tricky - edit it before the beat), and 3:07.9, and will fade from 3:32 to 3:46.
The promo 45 version exists on CD.
It showed up first on T.J. Martell Foundation/Columbia's Music For The Miracle (1986). The left/right channels are reversed compared to Diamond Life; I'm not sure what's on the actual promo 45. Sonically, it's not all that far removed from Diamond Life. It runs at 117.5 BPM, or about 0.4% slower than Diamond Life, which is a real, but insignificant, difference. It sounds much better than I gave it credit for in my initial post many years ago.
It's also on Realm's Gold And Platinum Vol. 2 (1986). This disc borrows its entire track listing from Music For The Miracle, so that all the songs on G&P are found on Miracle. Unfortunately, it uses different mastering on all the tracks, and includes many early fade. And REALLY early fades on some tracks, like 30 seconds early. For "Smooth Operator", it sounds to my ears like someone played back a tape but didn't use the proper noise reduction setting on playback. It's very bright, with an unnatural reverb on everything, which doesn't exist on the other CDs. The left/right channels are reversed compared to Diamond Life. It runs at 117.8 BPM, which is pretty much the same speed as Diamond Life.
TM Century did a good job of recreating the edit on track no. 00006868, but they let the fade run out to the printed time of 3:59. It sounds pretty good here, with no evidence of added noise reduction. swaitek's promo 50-CD The A List Disc 27 (1994) bases its mastering on the TM Century track, and also runs too long at 3:59. Both of these run at 118.0 BPM.
I recommend hunting down T.J. Martell Foundation/Columbia's Music For The Miracle (1986) for the promo 45 version, as it will save you the trouble of nailing the edit at 2:35.
UK 45 version (printed 4:15)
This turns out to be a very simple edit of the LP version. I'll give instructions using the timing from the '80s-era Diamond Life CD. The UK 45 runs at 119.1 BPM, and the US LP/45 version runs at 118.0 BPM, so you'll need to pitch up by 0.9% after you make your edits.
Segment 1
5 beats long
Ends on upbeat (there would be a snare here)
Extends from 0:00 to 0:03.3 of the US LP/45 version and the UK 45 version (before pitching up)
Delete the 8 beats from 0:03.3 to 0:07.3 of the US LP/45 version.
Segment 2
Begins on upbeat, on first note of bassline
30 beats long
Ends on upbeat (there would be a snare here)
Extends from 0:03.3 to 0:18.6 of the UK 45 version (before pitching up)
Extends from 0:07.3 to 0:22.6 of the US LP/45 version
Delete the 64 beats from 0:22.6 to 0:55.2 of the US LP/45 version.
Segment 3
Begins on upbeat (there would be a snare here)
Extends to end of song, including fade
Extends from 0:18.6 to 4:21.7 (end) of the UK 45 version (before pitching up)
Extends from 0:55.2 to 4:58.2 (end) of the US LP/45 version
Your mixdown (before pitching up) will run 4:21.7 (including outro silence), with edits at 0:03.3 and 0:18.6.
Then pitch up by 0.9%.
Your mixdown (after pitching up) will run 4:19.3 (including outro silence), with edits at 0:03.3 and 0:18.4.
The UK 45 version doesn't seem to exist on CD. I believe (but can't confirm) that the song was re-edited in 1994 for the Best Of Sade CD, and an engineer missed the first edit in the intro, and faded the track to get the timing to match the UK 45. Because the intro was too long (compared to the 45), the fade was too short.
I also believe (but can't confirm) that all the 4:15 versions on CD are based on the Best Of Sade CD mastering, and therefore all miss the first edit in the intro.
Edited by crapfromthepast on 20 December 2020 at 12:13pm
__________________
There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one Crap From The Past.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
EternalStatic
MusicFan
Joined: 28 September 2019
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 253
|
| Posted: 20 December 2020 at 8:59am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Thanks for adding your expertise, Ron! Now I realize that my promo 7"
re-creation was running a bit fast because my source file appears to be
a 2000 remaster.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
VWestlife
MusicFan
Joined: 02 April 2020
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 140
|
| Posted: 07 August 2021 at 1:02pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Note that the 1985 U.S. CD release of the "Diamond Life" album actually has the UK 45 version of "Smooth Operator" on it:
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Active Topics 
Memberlist 
Search 
Help
Register 
Login
Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Sade - Smooth Operator
