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aaronk
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Jesus Jones - Right Here, Right Now - I have the commercial CD single, which has:
1. Hit Radio Mix (2:32 - actual) This is the version that most radio stations played.
2. Righteous Radio Mix (3:03) This is the version that Whitburn lists.
3. Martyn Phillips 12" Mix (5:48)
The 3:07 Album Version is a completely different mix from the radio mixes on the single. For one, the Album Version starts with drums for two measures before the guitar comes in. Also, the album version has a shaker along with the guitar in the intro, where the radio mixes just have the guitar by itself.
The only difference between the Hit Radio Mix and Righteous Radio Mix is that the guitar solo in the middle of the song is edited out of the Hit Radio Mix.
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Brian W.
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Todd Ireland wrote:
Janet Jackson - You Want This ==> Single version - 4:46. Album version - 5:05. (available on vinyl 45)
The single version is a remix.
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Yes, single version was called simply "Remix," and did indeed run 4:46. The biggest difference is that the single version contained a new rap by MC Lyte. I don't think there was a commercial CD single for this, but it was widely available on import CD singles and one of the two promos.
The above all contained the non-LP track "70s Love Groove," which was listed with the title track on the Hot 100, but did not made the airplay chart at all, and is listed by Whitburn simply as a "sales flip." It was not a hit... I don't know why the Billboard entry was "You Want This/70's Love Groove" any more than I know why "Scream" was listed as "Scream/Childhood." "Childhood" was promoted to radio, and failed miserably.
Todd Ireland wrote:
Janet Jackson - Together Again ==> Single version - 4:06*. Album version - 5:01. (Whitburn - 4:07) (available on vinyl 45)
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On my commercial CD single, the track (called Radio Edit) runs 4:08.
What's interesting about the commercial CD and cassette singles is that they contain three completely separate recordings of the song -- the Radio Edit, plus a slow ballad version (Jimmy Jam Deeper Radio Edit) and a mid-tempo version (the Jimmy Jam Deep Radio Edit), all unique vocal recordings, not just remixes.
Todd Ireland wrote:
Jewel - You Were Meant for Me ==> Single version - 3:45*. Album version - 4:12. (Whitburn - 3:45)
The single version is actually a re-recording.
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Do you mean "Foolish Games," Todd? I know the hit airplay version of "Foolish Games" was a re-recording.
Edited by Brian W. on 23 June 2005 at 1:09pm
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Brian W.
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Damn this board! I HATE that you can't edit your posts!
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Brian W.
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Of course I'm referring to "Together Again" in the second part of my first post.
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aaronk
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Actually, Brian & Todd are both correct about the Jewel songs. "You Were Meant For Me" and "Foolish Games" were both re-recorded for single release. I heard from somewhere that the record company asked her to re-record those tracks to make them more radio friendly, since the album versions sound stripped down and unpolished. Her debut single "Who Will Save Your Soul" was released for airplay in its LP version.
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Regarding GTR "When The Heart Rules The Mind", I have the dj vinyl 45 and indeed there are two versions on the dj 45, one running 3:58 and one 4:27. Not sure if there were two commercial 45 lengths.
Regarding "All The Man I Need" by Whitney Houston, does anyone have the 45 so that you can let us know if the 3:53 45 is just an early fade of the LP version?
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Regarding the 45 vs LP version of "Tell Me When" by the Human League, as Todd pointed out, the 45 version appears on the "Very Best Of Human League" while the LP version appears on "Octopus". The 45 version is an edit of the LP version and not a remix.
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Todd Ireland
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aaronk wrote:
Jesus Jones - Right Here, Right Now - I have the commercial CD single, which has:
1. Hit Radio Mix (2:32 - actual) This is the version that most radio stations played.
2. Righteous Radio Mix (3:03) This is the version that Whitburn lists.
3. Martyn Phillips 12" Mix (5:48)
The 3:07 Album Version is a completely different mix from the radio mixes on the single. For one, the Album Version starts with drums for two measures before the guitar comes in. Also, the album version has a shaker along with the guitar in the intro, where the radio mixes just have the guitar by itself.
The only difference between the Hit Radio Mix and Righteous Radio Mix is that the guitar solo in the middle of the song is edited out of the Hit Radio Mix. |
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Thanks, I appreciate the info, Aaron. My CD single of Jesus Jones' "Right Here, Right Now" arrived today and it turns out I got a promotional copy (SBK Records DPRO-05376). The track listing is identical to the commercial cassette single. Here are the tracks with the actual run times:
1) RIGHTEOUS RADIO MIX - 3:03
2) ALBUM VERSION - 3:07
3) MOVE ME - 3:09
The Righteous Radio Mix is indeed the official commercial single version, which can be found on the Billboard Top Hits: 1991 CD (Rhino 79801). It looks like the single version is also on the Billboard Top Hits of the '90s disc (Rhino 74327), but I don't have a copy to verify.
Todd Ireland wrote:
Janet Jackson - Together Again ==> Single version - 4:06*. Album version - 5:01. (Whitburn - 4:07) (available on vinyl 45)
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Brian W. wrote:
| On my commercial CD single, the track (called Radio Edit) runs 4:08. |
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Thanks for verifying the run time here, Brian. My Promo Only: Mainstream Radio DJ CDs sometimes truncate songs a second or two early, so this is why I frequently ask readers to help me confirm run times whenever I list them with an asterisk (*).
By the way, Brian, you seem to have a fairly extensive collection of Janet Jackson singles. Do you have a commercial CD single copy of "Any Place, Any Time" and, if so, could you tell us how long the single version runs?
Brian W. wrote:
| Damn this board! I HATE that you can't edit your posts! |
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I've experienced the same frustration as well. Sure, we do have the "Preview Post" feature, which I frequently use, but sometimes I don't catch mistakes until after I've posted my message. By then it's too late. It would be nice if there was an "Edit" feature allowing readers to go back and correct or revise their own posted messages.
aaronk wrote:
| Actually, Brian & Todd are both correct about the Jewel songs. "You Were Meant For Me" and "Foolish Games" were both re-recorded for single release. I heard from somewhere that the record company asked her to re-record those tracks to make them more radio friendly, since the album versions sound stripped down and unpolished. Her debut single "Who Will Save Your Soul" was released for airplay in its LP version. |
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It's my understanding that Jewel herself also wanted to re-do these songs. She originally recorded "You Were Meant for Me" and "Foolish Games" long before her Pieces of You album became a success. By that time, she had grown very unhappy with how her vocals sounded on those tracks. She later went back into the studio to re-record both songs for single release.
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Brian W.
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"Any Time, Any Place" was a part of my post at one point, Todd... I don't know what happened to it. I must have deleted it accidentally before I posted. (Maybe I sneezed and blew it off the page -- very bad pollen in L.A. right now!)
The CD maxi single did indeed use the R. Kelly Mix, running 5:11, not 5:08 as it states on label. It and the cassette single contained the LP version of "Throb," which several months prior charted at #66 in airplay (and was released as a separate single in some countries), as well as the non-LP track "And On and On," which hit #38 in airplay, running 4:47, not the 4:49 listed.
But the promo CD single of "Any Time, Any Place" used the "R. Kelly Single Edit," which ran 4:35 (actual). The "Single Edit" does not end cold like the full-length R. Kelly Mix, but fades out -- however, it is not a simple fade of the full-length version. There is an edit somewhere before the 4:00 mark. I haven't taken the time to figure out where.
Anyone own the cassette single who can verify it's the full R. Kelly Mix on there and not the R. Kelly Single Edit? I believe the cassette packaging said it was the full-length version, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything!
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Regarding "Booti Call" by BLACKstreet mentioned way back when on this thread, I just obtained the cassette single and here is what I can report. The jacket on the cassette single states that it is the LP version which it is, including the :09 spoken introduction. The running time on my cassette player is 4:20 while the cd version runs 4:25 but this makes sense since almost all cassette singles run fast. The 4:16 running time on the "No Diggity - Very Best Of" cd comes about because the :09 spoken introduction was removed.
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I have one update to relay before diving into the next group of entries...
Gloria Estefan and Miami Sound Machine - Betcha Say That ==> Single version - 3:40. Album version - 4:47.
Edtop40 tells me the commercial 45 version is a remix.
Also, thanks to Pat and Brian for their most recent updates. One by one, we're uncovering every Top 40 single and album version in existence!
There have been several comments on this board about how cassette singles tend to run faster than CDs. I think this has more to do with cassette players though than cassettes themselves. Like turntables, cassette players can vary greatly in playback speed from player to player. I have two in my home and both definitely play cassettes at a faster than normal speed. Meanwhile, the cassette deck in my 1999 Ford Explorer seems to play more at "standard" speed because whenever I time my cassette singles on it (yes, this crazy freak actually goes out and sits in his car with a stop watch!), I find the run times to be very consistent with CD run times. This is just something to keep in mind when timing songs on cassette.
And now, without further ado, here are the latest "dirty dozen" to make the list:
Joe - Don't Wanna Be a Player ==> Album version - 4:12. (Whitburn - 5:00)
It looks like commercial CD single copies contain the "LP Version" with a printed run time of 5:06.
Elton John - Club at the End of the Street ==> Single length - 4:40. Album length - 4:49. (Whitburn - 4:27) (available on vinyl 45)
Thanks to my main man, Ed, for his input here!
Jeremy Jordan - The Right Kind of Love ==> Single and album version - 4:31. (available on vinyl 45)
Ed says the version stated on the cassette single is "album version w/rap". I haven't done a comparison, but I'm pretty sure the commercial single is the same as the album version on Jordan's Try My Love (Giant 24483) CD. By the way, the song runs :13 longer than the single and album version on the Beverly Hills, 90210 - The Soundtrack (Giant 24465) CD, and :12 longer than the single and album version on the Pop Super Stars of the '90s (Beast 56102), disc.
Montell Jordan - Somethin' 4 Da Honeyz ==> Album version - 4:34. (Whitburn - 4:03) (available on vinyl 45)
I can't tell for sure, but it appears commercial single copies feature the "Radio Version" with a printed run time of 4:02.
Montell Jordan featuring Master P & Silkk the Shocker - Let's Ride ==> Single version - 4:06. Album version - 4:52.
The commercial CD single says this is the "Radio Edit" and states a run time of 3:47, but it actually goes 4:06. Thanks again, Ed!
Montell Jordan - I Can Do That ==> Album version - 4:44. (Whitburn - 3:42)
Looks like commercial single copies contain the "radio edit".
Junior M.A.F.I.A. featuring The Notorious B.I.G. - Get Money ==> Album version - 4:33. (Whitburn - 4:07)
Kane Gang - Motortown ==> Album version - 4:45. (Whitburn - 3:47) (available on vinyl 45)
The printed run time on the commercial vinyl 45 record label is 3:47.
K-Ci & JoJo - Tell Me It's Real ==> Single version - 3:40*. Album version - 4:38. (Whitburn - 3:41) (available on vinyl 45)
Lisa Keith - Better Than You ==> Single version - 4:15. Album version - 4:11.
The commercial single version is also known as the "Original Mix Edit". It is a different mix than the album version. Probably the most distinguishable difference between the two is the single version has no percussion during the first :08 while the album version does.
R. Kelly & Public Announcement - Honey Love ==> Album version - 5:04. (Whitburn - 4:52)
Sources seem to indicate that commercial cassette single copies contain the "LP Version". Therefore, this could very well be a case where the single and album version are identical. But only until someone verifies this will we know for sure!
R. Kelly & Public Announcement - Dedicated ==> Album version - 4:36. (Whitburn - 3:49)
Edited by Todd Ireland on 24 April 2005 at 8:12pm
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Todd, I can verify that the cassette single of Honey Love by R. Kelly is indeed the LP version as stated on the cassette single.
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Todd Ireland
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Thanks for the update, Pat!
I'm long overdue to post some new entries, so here are the next 12:
R. Kelly - I Believe I Can Fly ==> Single version - 4:42*. Album version - 5:20. (Whitburn - 4:42) (available on vinyl 45)
Commercial single copies state "radio edit".
R. Kelly featuring Nas - Did You Ever Think ==> Album version - 4:31. (Whitburn - 4:20)
The leadoff track on commercial CD single copies is a remix featuring rapper Nas. However, Joel Whiburn says in Top Pop Singles that promo CD single copies on Jive 42600 do not feature Nas.
Tara Kemp - Piece of My Heart ==> Single version - 3:52. Album version - 4:49.
My main man Edtop40 confirmed for me that the commercial cassette single contains the "Baby She's a Star Mix".
Kris Kross - Warm It Up ==> Album version - 4:08. (Whitburn - 3:45) (available on vinyl 45)
Kyper - Tic-Tac-Toe ==> Single version - 3:59. Album version - 6:19.
The commercial cassette single features the "Mojoe Radio" edit.
La Bouche - Be My Lover ==> Single version - 3:51. Album version - 4:00. (available on vinyl 45)
The album version features several verses by a male rapper from the 1:37 to 1:54 mark. By contrast, commercial single copies show the A-side or leadoff track as "Radio Edit 1" and does not contain any rap. The commercial single B-side is called "Radio Edit 2" but is actually identical to the album version.
La Bouche - Sweet Dreams ==> Single version - 3:09. Album version - 3:23. (available on vinyl 45)
The situation here is basically the same as with "Be My Lover". The album version for "Sweet Dreams" features several verses by a male rapper from 2:15 to 2:31. By contrast, commercial single copies show the A-side or leadoff track as "Radio Edit 1", which edits out the rap segment. I don't have the album version, but I believe it's the same as the as "Radio Edit 2" version appearing on the commercial single B-side.
L.A. Guns - Ballad of Jayne ==> Single version - 4:14. Album version - 4:32.
George LaMond - Bad of the Heart ==> Single version - 4:06. Album version - 4:17. (available on vinyl 45)
I got this info from Ed.
K.D. Lang - Constant Craving ==> Album version - 4:36. (Whitburn - 4:22) (available on vinyl 45)
Retail cassette single copies are reported to contain the "LP Version" so this may be an instance where the single and album version are exactly the same.
Cyndi Lauper - Change of Heart ==> Single version - 3:59. Album version - 4:22. (available on vinyl 45)
Thanks again, Ed!
Le Click - Call Me ==> Single version - 3:44. Album version - 3:43.
Ok, I have the commercial 2-track CD single, which contains the following track listing and actual run times:
1) Euro Radio Mix (No Rap) - 3:44
2) Euro Radio Mix (Rap) -3:44.
I have heard both of these versions of "Call Me" on Top 40 radio, so I'm guessing both appear on the promo CD single release. I don't have the parent CD Le Click Featuring Kayo (RCA 67528), so I don't know if the rap verses are on the album version. I do know though that the Boom! (Beast 54112) various artist CD has the No Rap mix, which is considered the official single version.
Edited by Todd Ireland on 05 May 2005 at 9:56pm
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With regard to Le Click "Call Me", the RCA cd features the "rap version", the Beast cd features the "no rap version", the Razor & Tie cd titled "The Power" features the "rap version" also listed on the cd jacket as the "spike mix" and the Razor & Tie cd titled "Fired Up" features the "no rap version" also listed on the cd jacket as the "spike mix". So there are two different Razor & Tie cd's calling this the "spike mix" when one has the rap version and one doesn't. Now Todd, why do you say the official 45 version is the "no rap version" when you heard both versions on the radio? You gave an example a while back of Az Yet with Peter Cetera not being the lead track on the cassette single of "Hard To Say I'm Sorry" but you still considered the 45 version to be the version of "Hard To Say I'm Sorry" the version with Az Yet and Peter Cetera which was on the second side of the cassette single.
Edited by Moderator on 06 May 2005 at 8:27pm
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Just as an aside, the dj cd single for "Bad Of The Heart" by George LaMond lists track 1 as being the single edit running 3:55 and track 2 as being the Album version running 4:08 which we know is wrong because the Album version runs 4:17. We will have to go with the commercial 45 time in this case which Ed tells us is 4:06.
Now this 4:06 version that appears on the cd "The Hits...And More" appears to be an early fade of the 4:17 LP track as does the 4:06 version on the promo cd single so Ed since you have the commercial single can you tell us if this is really a 45 version or a 45 length?
Edited by Moderator on 06 May 2005 at 8:51pm
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Now for Cyndi Lauper's "Change Of Heart", it sounds to me like the 3:59 single is just an early fade of the LP version which runs 4:22 so shouldn't the 3:59 single be called 45 length instead of 45 version?
As another aside, there was a dj 45 vinyl record that stated a running time of 4:50 (actual time 4:57) that was a remix of this song (not stated on the label) but it stated on the label that this was from the Portrait LP "True Colors" which is not true as the remix was not on this LP.
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Todd Ireland
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Moderator wrote:
| With regard to Le Click "Call Me", the RCA cd features the "rap version", the Beast cd features the "no rap version", the Razor & Tie cd titled "The Power" features the "rap version" also listed on the cd jacket as the "spike mix" and the Razor & Tie cd titled "Fired Up" features the "no rap version" also listed on the cd jacket as the "spike mix". So there are two different Razor & Tie cd's calling this the "spike mix" when one has the rap version and one doesn't. Now Todd, why do you say the official 45 version is the "no rap version" when you heard both versions on the radio? You gave an example a while back of Az Yet with Peter Cetera not being the lead track on the cassette single of "Hard To Say I'm Sorry" but you still considered the 45 version to be the version of "Hard To Say I'm Sorry" the version with Az Yet and Peter Cetera which was on the second side of the cassette single. |
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Pat:
Good questions. I consider the A-side or leadoff track on commercial single copies to be the official single version of a song with very rare exceptions. Although the "Rap" and "No Rap" version of Le Click's "Call Me" did both receive significant radio airplay, I defer to the "No Rap" version as being the single version by virtue of the fact that it is the leadoff track (Track 1) on the commercial CD single. I understand some might reject this policy as overly simplistic, but I find it helpful when trying to come up with one "definitive" single version of a particular song.
Now, regarding Az Yet's "Hard to Say I'm Sorry"... well, I believe this is one of the rare exceptions to my single version rule. Even though the version with Peter Cetera was released as the B-side on the cassette single, I think a special case can be made here to consider it the official single version because this mix was the one specifically promoted to Top 40 radio which in turn gained the song widespread popularity. Also, "Hard to Say I'm Sorry" was listed with the artist credit: Az Yet featuring Peter Cetera during the song's chart run on the Billboard Hot 100.
Moderator wrote:
Now for Cyndi Lauper's "Change Of Heart", it sounds to me like the 3:59 single is just an early fade of the LP version which runs 4:22 so shouldn't the 3:59 single be called 45 length instead of 45 version?
As another aside, there was a dj 45 vinyl record that stated a running time of 4:50 (actual time 4:57) that was a remix of this song (not stated on the label) but it stated on the label that this was from the Portrait LP "True Colors" which is not true as the remix was not on this LP. |
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Ed and I actually discussed whether or not the 45 version of "Change of Heart" should be considered an early fade. I argue that it is not because you cannot duplicate the 45 version simply by fading out the LP version early. If you notice, the LP version features added instrumentation overdubs during the passage where the 45 fades out.
Edited by Todd Ireland on 06 May 2005 at 10:36pm
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Todd Ireland wrote:
Ed and I actually discussed whether or not the 45 version of "Change of Heart" should be considered an early fade. I argue that it is not because you cannot duplicate the 45 version simply by fading out the LP version early. If you notice, the LP version features added instrumentation overdubs during the passage where the 45 fades out.
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Are you referring to the drums that come in roughly two seconds after Cyndi's last vocal and don't seem to appear on the 45 which fades for maybe :03?
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Moderator wrote:
| Are you referring to the drums that come in roughly two seconds after Cyndi's last vocal and don't seem to appear on the 45 which fades for maybe :03? |
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Yes, that's correct. The drums come in at 3:56 on the LP version, but do not appear at the same point on the 45 version where only the last vestiges of a synthesizer is heard during the final :03 of the song's fadeout from 3:56-3:59.
It's a close call and of course the final one is yours to make, Pat. I've just always been of the opinion that the term "45 length" is most accurately defined when an LP version can be faded early to exactly duplicate its 45 version counterpart.
Edited by Todd Ireland on 08 May 2005 at 10:06pm
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Brian W.
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Todd Ireland wrote:
| I've just always been of the opinion that the term "45 length" is most accurately defined when an LP version can be faded early to exactly duplicate its 45 version counterpart. |
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Todd, if an LP version has been made to exactly match the 45 version, shouldn't we simply call it "45 version"? If it matches exactly, how do you know it's not really the 45 version?
I always thought Pat's use of the term "45 length" meant that he wasn't 100% sure if it was the 45 version or not, but it was the same length.
But in this particular case, it seems to me the accurate description would be "neither the 45 or LP version."
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Topic: Single/album version distinctions...
