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aaronk
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Not to start a big debate, but I think what we're trying to say is "where do you draw the line?"
I don't think any of us disagree that a note should be made in these cases. The question is do we call it a 45 version or not? When does a difference become significant enough to give it the "45 version" designator?
I would argue that this is a case that does not warrant a "45 version," but only a note that tells us about the truncation. Do you agree, Ed?
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edtop40
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yes.....okay.....that's fine....but it should be noted which cd contains the correct 45/single version.....which i see pat has dobne.....that's all i'm saying.....version, mix, length.....it doesn't matter to me the verbige.......as long as we get it right....
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crapfromthepast
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I found shorter edits of "Black Velvet" on some of my
CDs, so I went poking around in the forum and found this
thread. Much of this may already be in the database, but
I thought I'd share anyway.
The album version of the song runs 4:46, plus or minus a
few seconds. Many of the following CDs have printed
times of 4:49, and all have the album version:-
Razor & Tie Presents '90s Style (Razor & Tie OPCD-
4569, 1996; excellent sound) - Rock On 1990
(Madacy/Sony Music EXR-2-9790/AQ28695, 1997; excellent
sound) - Sounds Of The '90s 1990 (Time-Life
R814-01, 2001; mastered by Dennis Drake, excellent sound)
- Atlantic's Year In Review: 1990 (Atlantic
PRCD 3674-2; very good sound) - Schwartz
Brothers Compact Disc Sampler Vol. 4 (very good
sound) - TVmusic4U Presents Midnight Rock
(Warner Special Products OPCD-3568, 2000; OK sound)
- Starland Music Presents Reflections Of Love
(Warner Special Products OPCD-4572, 1996; OK sound)
- Pottpett Rokk (Skifan Iceland PCD 9706, 1997;
OK sound) - Hot And Fresh - Die Neuen
Internationalen Superhits (Ariola Germany 353 984,
so-so sound; runs 0.2% too fast)
My commercial
45 has a printed run time of 4:40, which seems to match
all my CD copies, so I don't think I'd ever bothered to
play the 45 in the 17 years I've owned it. Until
tonight...
Much to my surprise, the opening note is cut off, just as
described above, which is indeed the first 0.15 seconds
of the song. I noticed that the same thing happened with
John Parr's "St. Elmo's Fire", also on Atlantic, except
that for that track, the opening note is also cut off on
most of the CD releases. I'm 100% certain this is a
mastering mistake - it's just good policy to open a song
with a downbeat, and I can't imagine that the artist,
producer or record company would want it otherwise. The
opening downbeat is intact on all of the CDs listed
above.
I'd put this 45 mastering glitch on par with a few CD
versions of Men At Work's "It's A Mistake", where the
first of the opening guitar strums is cut off.
What's not obvious, and is probably not in the database,
is that the UK single is an early fade of the US version.
This UK single version runs 4:02, with a 32-beat fade
from 3:42-4:02, and is also missing the first 0.15
seconds of the downbeat! The versions on the these UK
compilations both run 4:02 and are missing the downbeat:
- Now 1990 (Virgin EMI Polygram 9 27080 2,
1993; ever-so-slightly muffled compared to US versions
above) - Snap It Up! Moster Hits 2 (CBS BMG
WEA CD HITS 12, 1990; also ever-so-slightly muffled
compared to US versions above)
Edited by crapfromthepast on 20 May 2011 at 7:02pm
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edtop40
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Underground Dub wrote:
The average (and slightly above average) listener would not notice a track starting .15 seconds late (meaning edtop40 is just a freak, that's all...j/k!) and to state this was specially done for the single is frankly rediculous.
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i take exception to my freak classification, even if i am one!
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edtop40
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was there ever a promo cd single issued for this song?
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prisdeej
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Just to dredge this topic up 7 years later. Was the promo CD single issued with the truncated intro?
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Dave L.
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aaronk
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PR 2884-2
1. non-described version (listed 4:49; actual 4:47)
The intro on this version is NOT truncated.
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Aaron Kannowski
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NightAire
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I have to chuckle as I read through this thread, even though this attention to detail is EXACTLY what I love about this group.
I'm surprised, though, that nobody suggested marking it as "single LENGTH," since it's the LP version, just 0.15 seconds shorter. :-D
(I heard this performed on The Masked Singer by "The Night Angel" on Fox TV last night and realized I didn't already have it in rotation!)
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aaronk
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I see we have a wise guy, eh? You should know that it can’t be a single
LENGTH because the difference in length occurs at the beginning and
not at the end. :-D
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thecdguy
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One thing about this song that always bothered me a little is that at about the 1:52 mark in the song, there appears to be what sounds like a slight click on the word, "He'll.." in the line "He'll leave you longing for...". I know that's just the way the song was recorded, but it always made me think of listening to Vinyl 45's when I was younger and hearing little clicks on them.
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PopArchivist
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thecdguy wrote:
| One thing about this song that always bothered me a little is that at about the 1:52 mark in the song, there appears to be what sounds like a slight click on the word, "He'll.." in the line "He'll leave you longing for...". I know that's just the way the song was recorded, but it always made me think of listening to Vinyl 45's when I was younger and hearing little clicks on them. |
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I wonder Dan if that sound you hear is also present on the vinyl 45? Could be when it transferred. It was only 1990 if I recall...
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NightAire
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I hear that click too! I think I always assumed it was one of the guitarists clicking against something... but it would be VERY interesting to see if it's on the vinyl 45. (My source is the original CD from 1989.)
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thecdguy
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I've never had the 45, but I've heard the click on every configuration of the song I've ever listened to - on the Cassette Single, the few VA comps I have that contain the song, and the video. So I assume it would be on the 45 as well. I sometimes think it was someone clicking on a switch in the studio and somehow it got onto the recording.
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KentT
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Brian W. wrote:
maciav wrote:
Isn't it possible that
Atlantic intended for the 45 released in 1989 - 1990 to
have the truncation? |
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Nah... it's not like it's a different mix. I'm glad we
noticed it, and if I were using it on a collection, I
personally would probably use the truncated version.
But this wasn't intentional.
maciav wrote:
I do not have expensive software and /
or hardware that allows me to "re-create" the 45-
version, etc. |
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Don't fret, neither do we... I don't think any of us
spent more than $50 on the software we use to edit
songs. |
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A decent cheap Behringer audio interface and a free copy
of Audacity works just fine, with a little learning and
knowhow. Export the file to .wav when finished. Less
than $30.Audacity works well enough for broadcast work.
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crapfromthepast
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I took a look at one of the digital files to see what the little click looks like. It's a digital glitch, not an analog artifact like someone switching something on or off. It's 31 samples of near-silence in the left channel, 19 samples of near-silence in the right channel, followed very shortly afterward by about 5 samples of near-silence in the left channel.
The glitch shows up in all of the versions I have on CD (all thirteen of them), plus (thanks to YouTube) the UK vinyl 12" single, the UK vinyl 7" single, and a cassette single. The UK vinyl 12" single, the UK vinyl 7" single, and the cassette single also have the opening note truncated.
I couldn't find a YouTube video of the actual US vinyl 45.
Edited by crapfromthepast on 30 April 2020 at 8:35pm
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prisdeej
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thecdguy wrote:
I've never had the 45, but I've heard
the click on every configuration of the song I've ever
listened to - on the Cassette Single, the few VA comps
I have that contain the song, and the video. So I
assume it would be on the 45 as well. I sometimes think
it was someone clicking on a switch in the studio and
somehow it got onto the recording. |
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For what it's worth the click is absent from my copy on
TM Century's GoldDisc 905N. They were lifting their
music directly from promo CD singles at this point.
It may be this way on the promo CD single, or the folks
at TM removed it using NR.
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Dave L.
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thecdguy
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prisdeej wrote:
thecdguy wrote:
I've never had the 45, but I've heard
the click on every configuration of the song I've ever
listened to - on the Cassette Single, the few VA comps
I have that contain the song, and the video. So I
assume it would be on the 45 as well. I sometimes think
it was someone clicking on a switch in the studio and
somehow it got onto the recording. |
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For what it's worth the click is absent from my copy on
TM Century's GoldDisc 905N. They were lifting their
music directly from promo CD singles at this point.
It may be this way on the promo CD single, or the folks
at TM removed it using NR. |
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That's interesting. Can anyone here who has the promo confirm if it has the click at the 1:52 mark? If it doesn't, I'll try to track down a copy of it. It would be great after 30 years to finally hear the song without it.
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Dan In Philly
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aaronk
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The promo CD single does have the click at 1:52. This appears to be a mastering/tape issue and not anything that was intended to be there.
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Aaron Kannowski
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AdvprosD
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I recently uncorked a set of German Time-Life issues. The 90's Collection, Time Life Music TL 608/02.
I noticed the truncated intro and immediately had to come back here to re-read the chatter surrounding this song. Thanks guys! Now I'm going to have to listen again for the "Click" in the refrain. I guess,
once I hear it, I'll never be able to not hear it ever again.
Anywhoo, It would seem that they also didn't bother to fix any of the errors when they shipped it across the pond. I'd like to read about the folks who claimed engineering credit for this, but I don't read German.
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PopArchivist
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prisdeej wrote:
| For what it's worth the click is absent from my copy on TM Century's GoldDisc 905N. They were lifting their music directly from promo CD singles at this point. It may be this way on the promo CD single, or the folks at TM removed it using NR. |
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Was it an mp3? I remember Ron saying also that the pre-1993 era of TM leaves a lot to be desired, meaning the promos are usually superior for this era....
Edited by PopArchivist on 02 April 2021 at 5:42pm
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: alannah myles "black velvet"
