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Bill Cahill
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| Posted: 13 January 2008 at 10:29pm | IP Logged
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Not all versions are in phase if you sum them to mono either. Rather annoying for us radio people trying to sound good on mono radios. I'd have to check the history of this track, it wouldn't surprise me if the intro was cut on one of the vinyl compilations and then it ended up that way on CD too.
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 15 January 2008 at 5:54pm | IP Logged
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The Hits Man wrote:
| I understand that all reissue 45s are not the actual 45 mono single mix. |
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I found that the original first pressings in the Goldies 45 series utilized the same stampers as the original late-'60s 45s. In my neck of the woods, that first generation of Goldies 45s were all Monarch styrene pressings like the not-so-exclusive WDGY backup copy on the left below. These originals had a tan label with the Dunhill/ABC logo, and originally shipped in similarly-attired tan sleeves. This particular Goldies 45 copy and my original stock 45 were both pressed from the same stamper, and are the hit mono 45 version. "Born To Be Wild" on the flip is also the original mono 45 mix.
The later yellowish-labelled reissue on the right (with the recording published 1973 date) plays mono fold-down mixes on both sides. "Magic Carpet Ride" has the long, faded-in intro, and clocks in at 3:03. "Born To Be Wild" runs 3:28, and does not have the edit in the bridge found on the original mono 45. The later reissues shipped in black Goldies 45 sleeves.
Edited by Yah Shure on 15 January 2008 at 6:03pm
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The Hits Man
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| Posted: 15 January 2008 at 7:14pm | IP Logged
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Thanks! Yes, you can tell that the label on the left is the exact, same stamper and label typeset used on the original 1968 45s that I have. Hmmm...I wonder if it is cleaner-sounding, too.
The later, 1973 version is the one most commonly heard on oldies radio these days...but it's wrong.
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 15 January 2008 at 9:12pm | IP Logged
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I had already bought Steppenwolf The Second, so I special-ordered my stock Carpet Ride 45 after it had fallen off the charts, because I wanted "Sookie, Sookie" without having to buy the first album. I've never listened to the "Magic Carpet Ride" side of the WeeGee copy, since I already had that on the Bartley CD. But the "Born To Be Wild" side of the unplayed WDGY copy *somehow* found its way onto Napster years ago. ;) I always preferred the hotter guitars on the mono 45 mix of BTBW. It really rocked, and sounded terrific on AM radio.
You're absolutely right about the wrongness of the '73 Carpet. Yechh.
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satchdr
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| Posted: 15 January 2008 at 11:16pm | IP Logged
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In response to Todd's question, I have an original "Steppenwolf The Second" (still with the original Dunhill inner sleeve, I'm proud to say) in my collection. The listed time for "Magic Carpet Ride" is 4:30 and I listened to and timed the cut. It is, indeed, 4:30 (actually fades out between 4:30 and 4:31) and it has the fully intact fade-in.
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 15 January 2008 at 11:31pm | IP Logged
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Thanks so much, satchdr! We have extremely knowledgable experts here on the board who can answer just about any question dealing with 45 versions and radio edits, so it's always great when we can get an occasional LP related question answered too!
Looks like there should definitely be some kind of notation in the database referencing the fact that the LP version of "Magic Carpet Ride" on some CDs has part of the faded-in guitar intro missing. We've seen this type of problem on CD before with the organ intro on First Class's "Beach Baby".
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TomDiehl1
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I have a pressing of the Dunhill/ABC Goldies 45 version of the reissue, on vinyl. The vinyl is still of rather poor quality, consistant with regular stock issues of the two 45's. The styrene version of the reissue, played on the right equipment, could sound much more fantastic than the vinyl original or reissue 45's did.
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aaronk
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There is a 1976 double LP from the UK (ABC Records) called "California Sunshine." It has a printed time of 2:55 for "Magic Carpet Ride." Quite possibly it's the same stereo edit used for later 45 reissues, but does anyone know for sure?
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jimct
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Aaron, I just wanted to refer you to the pic that John (Yah Shure) posted earlier in this thread. It perfectly demonstrates visually the point I made to you about the subtle re-issue label difference with "Goldies 45s" that I discussed in our most recent, private e-mail.
Edited by jimct on 24 November 2010 at 7:51pm
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KentT
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The Left label 45 is authentic and from an original single stamper which is authentic AM mono. The right label is wonky about being original due to the fact that they often cut new stampers after the originals wore out. Many of the last ABC Goldies 45 label 45's often have Stereo or re-channeled content or fold downs of Stereo content. So we must listen to them first or at least look for period deadwax. And not just with Steppenwolf.
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Jody Thornton
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| Posted: 26 November 2010 at 11:24am | IP Logged
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The Hits Man wrote:
Thanks! Yes, you can tell that the label on the left is the exact, same stamper and label typeset used on the original 1968 45s that I have. Hmmm...I wonder if it is cleaner-sounding, too.
The later, 1973 version is the one most commonly heard on oldies radio these days...but it's wrong. |
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So I have an MCA double-sided 45-rpm disc that has "Born..." on one side and an edit of "Magic Carpet Ride" on the other. Is that not the genuine edit? I have heard it on classic rock radio.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 26 November 2010 at 11:38am | IP Logged
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Well, I assume the stereo edit was done by someone at the record company, but not at the time when the song was a hit. If it's in stereo and matches the LP vocal take, it's not the hit version.
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Hykker
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| Posted: 26 November 2010 at 2:47pm | IP Logged
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Jody Thornton wrote:
So I have an MCA double-sided 45-rpm disc that has "Born..." on one side and an edit of "Magic Carpet Ride" on the other. Is that not the genuine edit? I have heard it on classic rock radio.
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Can't speak for the record in question, but I'd be leery of MCA reissue singles. I had a 3 Dog Night reissue with "One"/"Try A Little Tenderness". "One" was a mono fold-down of the album version and TALT seemed to be a neither-album-nor-single version, also in mono. I didn't keep it since I got it in an attempt to get a better sounding copy of TALT than my original-label 45.
Don't think I've heard the single mix of MCR on the radio in decades.
Edited by Hykker on 26 November 2010 at 2:50pm
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 26 November 2010 at 7:22pm | IP Logged
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Jody, I have a mid-1980s MCA reissue 45 on the "clouds" label design, and can assure you that it is not the original single version (and ditto for the "Born To Be Wild" side.) Since the original Dunhill Goldies 45 reissue shown on the left side in the scan upthread is identical to the original Dunhill stock 45, I'll refer to both of these as the "Dunhill 45" in the following comparison of the key differences between them and the MCA reissue 45:
1. The Dunhill 45 is mono; MCA is stereo. Ditto for the "Born To Be Wild" sides on the reissues: original Dunhill Goldies 45 is mono; the MCA 45 is stereo.
2. The intro on the Dunhill 45 is edited and begins at full volume. On the MCA reissue, it fades in like it does on the LP version.
3. On the song's first line of the Dunhill 45, John Kay sings the word "dream" as "dree--eeam" using two notes, with a higher pitch on the second half of the word. On both the LP version and the MCA reissue 45, "dream " is sung with a single note, without a raise in pitch.
4. The instrumental break on the MCA reissue has one of the clunkiest-sounding edits on earth, as the cut doesn't match the beat at all, and is extremely noticeable. The beat remains unbroken on the much smoother edit on the Dunhill 45.
5. Timing differences. Comparing the original Dunhill Goldies 45 with the MCA 45:
"Magic Carpet Ride" --- Dunhill Goldies 45 (2:53) --- MCA 45 (2:44)
"Born To Be Wild" ----- Dunhill Goldies 45 (3:02) --- MCA 45 (3:26) and no edit in bridge.
6. Different matrix numbers. Dunhill 45: 01247; MCA: D-1433-BS-MCA-G (Gloverville, NY plant)
A few months back, I finally got around to ripping the original Dunhill Goldies 45 copy shown on the upthread scan. To answer Grant's earlier question ("Hmmm... I wonder if it is cleaner-sounding, too") the answer is no, because the stamper is identical to the 1968 stock 45 pressed by Monarch. It sounds dull, dull, dull, with no highs to speak of and not much bottom end. But it does sound much cleaner and a lot less harsh than the needledrop used for the Dick Bartley On The Radio Vol. 1 CD. I gave my own needledrop a significant EQ boost, and it still easily surpasses the quality of the Bartley track.
Because tracking down so many of the ABC/Dunhill 45 versions will require having to rely on needledrops, here's a short background on each of those labels' reissue 45 series: We already know that Dunhill's reissues began with the tan-labelled Dunhill Goldies 45 series, which, as far as I can tell, were all pressed on styrene by Monarch Records. As I'd mentioned earlier upthread, these original pressings - which contained the same versions as the original Dunhill 45s - came packaged in their own tan sleeves. Say what you will about styrene 45s, but for my money, they were a lot cleaner than the sorry excuses ABC used for vinyl at the pressing plants to which they contracted their work (the lone exception would be the Dunhill Goldies 45 reissue of Richard Harris' "MacArthur Park", which - like most all styrene pressings of such extreme length - wouldn't hold up beyond its first playing. Mine didn't even make it that far.)
ABC Records had its own line of reissue 45s, the Oldies Treasure Chest series (complete with typos!) which came in blue-and-white sleeves that were updated periodically to list some of the most recent releases in the series. These carried a 1200-series numbering system. As with the Dunhill line, vinyl grades were typically quite poor, with brand-new styrene pressings sounding the cleanest.
ABC discontinued the Oldies Treasure Chest line in 1973, consolidating both it and Dunhill Goldies 45 lines under the Goldies 45 banner, complete with label redesign. Under the auspices of executive producer Steve Resnick, the new Goldies 45 series re-badged the earlier releases, reissued more-recent ABC and Dunhill hits and began to license or cross-license older oldies from other labels such as Vee-Jay, Swan and Roulette. A series of LPs, each highlighting a specific year, was also available for a brief time on the ABC label. The extensive depth of the Goldies 45 series was rather short-lived; many of the deeper titles went out of print after Resnick left ABC in 1977.
It was when the 1973 Goldies 45 series was launched that the use of the original stampers was discontinued, replaced by newly-cut metal parts. The following year, 1974, saw ABC's purchase of the Famous Music Group, which included the Dot label, and most of us have long known the consequences of that acquisition.
During this same time, Roulette Records cross-licensed a number of ABC/Dunhill back-to-back hits, releasing them on its own Golden Goodies 45 series. Unfortunately, these were fold-downs of the stereo LP versions. At the same time, Roulette had new metal parts cut to replace those previously used for many of their own titles in the Golden Goodies 45 series, with stereo LP fold-downs replacing many of the earlier hit mono 45s (this is when the folded-down "Mony Mony" LP version likely first surfaced.)
Where the real Goldies 45 confusion arises is in the catalog numbers. The original Dunhill Goldies 45 releases' 1400-number series carried over to both the 1973 Goldies 45 line and the MCA reissue 45s.
An added word of caution: I saw some 1965-'66 Dunhill 45 titles under their original A/B pairings come through the distributor I worked for in 1976 that were on the post-1968 Dunhill/ABC label. These may very well have been legit reissues, but they might as well have been boots, with very poor quality re-ground vinyl and tons of noise. A must to avoid!
Here's a good rule of thumb when it comes to these reissues: If it's original 45 versions you're after from the ABC/Dunhill labels, look for the tan, original Dunhill Goldies 45 or ABC Oldies Treasure Chest series. Your mileage will definitely vary once you get into the 1973 yellow-gold label Goldies 45 line, and all bets are off with the MCA reissues.
Steve: XM's '60s channel almost always played the single version of "Carpet."
Edited by Yah Shure on 26 November 2010 at 8:06pm
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TomDiehl1
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I have several Goldies 45 reissues by Ronnie Dove, many are in stereo, but not all of them. A couple of the songs are actually in first time stereo on those 45s, which surprised the hell out of me....but they have turned up on cd since then, for the most part (there is one exception I can think of, a B side).
The licensing on those is credited to "International Widgit", which helps me not at all, when it comes to tracking down the original Diamond master tapes or session tapes. Universal had a job reel with all of the titles on it but they wouldn't give me any info beyond that... and now it's safe to assume the reel is now toast...a bummer since some of the first time stereo cuts on the 45s never turned up from tape sources on cd...
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Scott Young
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Revisiting an old thread to ask a question. Does anyone know what version of MCR was on the original issue Canadian RCA 45? I found a Canadian RCA Golden Greats 45 (D-1433) that has a fold down of the 4:30 LP version. It's a lot cleaner, and not near as murky as the Dunhill 45s I've heard. If only it was the right version! If I could find the real 45 version that sounded this good it would make my day.
By the way, this search is part of an ongoing (read: neverending) project to use versions that are reasonably faithful to the hit versions on the new online reincarnation of KISN radio in Portland. Check it out at www.goodguyradio.com.
Thanks to all who contribute here. I've gained a wealth of knowledge reading this board!
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crapfromthepast
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Scott Young wrote:
By the way, this search is part of an
ongoing (read: neverending) project to use versions that
are reasonably faithful to the hit versions on the new
online reincarnation of KISN radio in Portland. Check it
out at www.goodguyradio.com. |
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Welcome to the board, Scott! You're in good company, as
there are quite a few current or ex-radio people here who
share your interest in this stuff. A few of us have
taken our compiling projects to delightful extremes, like
assembling the best-sounding 45 versions for everything
that hit the top 40 or the Hot 100 for a particular year.
If you're wondering about a particular song/artist, the
search feature on the site is invaluable for digging up
threads.
BTW, very nice website for Good Guy Radio - it captures
the excitement of the old KISN very well.
It's too bad that the Dunhill 45s sounded so bad. You
can tell from the sparkling Steve Hoffman remixes of
"Born To Be Wild" and "Magic Carpet Ride" on the
Vintage Music collections that these songs were
recorded very well, but you'd never know it from the 45s.
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Scott Young
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Thanks for the comments on KISN. It's a fun project for a handful of us 50+ ex radio guys. We're old enough to be underserved by what passes for oldies radio today...and still young enough to do something about it. Listener response has been overwhelming.
We're currently playing the stereo mix of Magic Carpet Ride, edited to match the 45. I'd like to remedy that, but it depends on finding an alternate source for the genuine single version. A Canadian RCA 45 should do the trick if Canada got a dub of the US 45 master for the initial release. So far I haven't been able to answer that question. This isnt the first time I've been hosed by a reissue 45 but it was worth a shot!
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AndrewChouffi
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| Posted: 29 March 2012 at 7:02pm | IP Logged
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To 'Crapfromthepast':
On the 'Vintage Music' series (to the best of my knowledge) "Born To Be Wild" was remixed, "Magic Carpet Ride" was not.
Andy
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The Hits Man
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| Posted: 30 March 2012 at 7:44pm | IP Logged
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Scott Young wrote:
Revisiting an old thread to ask a
question. Does anyone know what version of MCR was on
the original issue Canadian RCA 45? I found a Canadian
RCA Golden Greats 45 (D-1433) that has a fold down of the
4:30 LP version. It's a lot cleaner, and not near as
murky as the Dunhill 45s I've heard. If only it was the
right version! If I could find the real 45 version that
sounded this good it would make my day.
By the way, this search is part of an ongoing (read:
neverending) project to use versions that are reasonably
faithful to the hit versions on the new online
reincarnation of KISN radio in Portland. Check it out at
www.goodguyradio.com.
Thanks to all who contribute here. I've gained a wealth
of knowledge reading this board! |
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I did not go back over the thread, and Ido not know if
you know this, but the true 45 of "Magic Carpet Ride" is
on Dick Bartley "On The Radio: Volume 1" CD. It is a
Bill Inglot needledrop of the original ABC/Dunhill mono
45. I can send it to you if you need.
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Steppenwolf - Magic Carpet Ride
