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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 05 April 2007 at 9:11am | IP Logged
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Though this post is somewhat off topic, I think a lot of members would be interested to know this info. I just found out about it a couple days ago. Every week, one of Casey Kasem's "American Top 40" programs from the 70s, and one from the '80s, airs on XMSatellite radio's 70s and '80s channels, respectively. While listening last night, I noticed they usually play single edits and/or mixes (for instance, last night they played the single edit of LRB's "Lady"), and this could be a good way for us to check out the edits and mixes that are no longer played on current radio! These shows don't air chronologically -- they pick a random date from the decade (one per week) and air it twice during the week (without commercials). (I sort of recall there may be the occasional time when the show itself edited a song but that was pretty rare and I think most of the songs play just the way they were as singles). Since so many of us want to know, have, check out the actual single versions, this is one way to discover them. Plus, it sure was a LOT of fun (at least for me) to hear a vintage show of AT40! I never thought I'd have the chance to do that again.
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Paul Haney
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| Posted: 05 April 2007 at 12:43pm | IP Logged
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Ah the memories...I grew up on AT40, faithfully writing down the Top 40 each week from about 1974 until Casey left in 1988 (could never get used to Shadoe). If memory serves, they would occasionally play an edited version. I remember it most on the year-end countdowns when they had to squeeze in 50 songs per show instead of 40 (they divided the Top 100 of the year into 2 shows).
The most outrageous one I remember is the 1986 year-end show when they edited "Crush On You" by The Jets down to what seemed about 2 minutes!
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 05 April 2007 at 4:13pm | IP Logged
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I did the same thing, writing down the songs every Sunday morning. (99X/WXLO-FM in New York, then 66 WNBC in New York, then WPLJ in New York, then 98PXY in Rochester, NY when I went off to college) I still have the 3-ring binder with all the pages from 1979-1989. Fond memories, indeed!
While AT40 played mostly the single edits, that wasn't a hard and fast rule.
I can think of a few examples off the top of my head.
Frank & Moon Zappa's "Valley Girl" only spent 3 weeks in the top 40 in 1982, and at least one of those was the LP version. (Maybe two?) At some point in the song chart life, they switched from LP to 45, or just faded out early.
Thomas Dolby's "She Blinded Me With Science" was the DJ edit throughout its chart life, not the commercial 45 version, much to the dismay of this particular record buyer...
Murray Head's "One Night In Bangkok" began with an orchestra-type intro, then went straight into the vocals during the first verse. I'm not sure if that's the LP version, but it's certainly not the commercial 45.
I believe that Don McLean's "American Pie" was the DJ edit of the song, which clocked in at 5 minutes or so.
AT40 also used to occasionally edit songs to make the show segments fit into the allotted time. And not just during the year-end countdowns - this was year-round, and based on how much time they had to trim for a particular week. This is mentioned in Rob Durkee's book about American Top 40.
On the plus side, the old AT40 shows are where I first discovered the 45 version of Eddie Money's "Two Tickets To Paradise", with extra guitar overdubs and a totally new vocal track with different words!
I'd use the old shows as a guideline, or maybe a way to give yourself a red flag if you hear something you don't recognize. They're not a be-all, end-all, though.
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eric_a
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| Posted: 05 April 2007 at 8:35pm | IP Logged
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To add - for much of the 70s, the show was only three hours long, so the show was a lot tighter for time. I heard them fade out midway through "Year Of The Cat" on one recent show. After about 1979, when they added the fourth hour, there was more time for full songs and long-distance dedications, etc.
In some cases, as crapfrom mentioned, the shows offer limited reference value. Last weekend, they played a 1988 countdown, which surprised me with the 5:00+ version of Def Leppard's "Hysteria." I guess that version existed on 45, though it wasn't the sole radio edit.
On another note, I've noticed that today's AT40, with Seacrest, uses curious edits at times, such as the LP version of "How To Save A Life." Is there any pattern there?
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cmmmbase
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| Posted: 05 April 2007 at 8:47pm | IP Logged
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a quick note on "One Night In Bangkok". On the promo 45, there was a version with orchestral intro called the "US Radio Edit". The commercial 45 version was on the other side and was called "Original European Hit".
I also recall hearing the orchestral intro version on AT40 - searched for that version for years, but didn't find it until last year. I believe the LP version was a longer version of the orchestral into version...
It's funny in that I also always heard the "Canadian" version of Falco's "Rock Me Amadeus" not the "US" mix when it was out in 1986, though the "US" mix is the one that's by far most readily available on CD.
Edited by cmmmbase on 05 April 2007 at 8:48pm
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maciav
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| Posted: 05 April 2007 at 8:59pm | IP Logged
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This is the greatest. I have been listening to these Casey Kasem countdowns religiously on XM since last August when they debuted. Besides the edits, you will hear singles you just can't obtain on CD or hear anywhere else: "Butter Boy" by Fanny; "George Jackson" by Bob Dylan; the 45 version of Isaac Hayes' "Shaft" without the "mother"; Think's "Once You Understand"; Wing & A Prayer's "Babyface"; Eddie Schwartz's "All Our Tomorrows"; the 45 version of Honey Cone's "Want Ads", and scores and scores more. I am so glad XM brought these back. My old cassette recordings from the 70s and 80s have seen their better days so it is nice to hear the countdowns digitally. It is especially neat to hear some of the "Not Available on Domestic CD" songs from Pat's website. And if you have an XM MP3 player you can record some of these rare beauties. I hope if the merger with SIRIUS goes through that Casey Kasem won't go away!
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 06 April 2007 at 8:56am | IP Logged
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Mike, that's nice to know that occasionally AT40 played single versions, single edits and that these old shows even include some songs that have never been on CD. Since you have made mp3s of all these great finds, I take it you've listened closely on headphones -- can you tell if the show used carts (i.e. tapes) for their sources or the actual 45s (with pops and clicks and all)?
On last night's show I only noticed a vinyl source on a song from the '50s (where they obviously had never received a cart source) but that was the only one I noticed, without listening on headphones, and so it seemed all these non-CD songs (and single mixes) I heard were all from tape sources!
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eric_a
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| Posted: 06 April 2007 at 2:16pm | IP Logged
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In Rob Durkee's book, he mentions that at the beginning, they produced the show in real time. For each segment, Casey and the records were recorded again and again if necessary.
I seem to remember him mentioning a move to carts, but I could be making that up.
By the end of the show's inital run -- Shadoe Stevens' early-90s era -- Durkee says that all the songs were already on a computer for easy access. By that point, they were manipulating songs on a case-by-case, show-by-show basis. He mentioned how one week, the producers extended the intro to U2's "Mysterious Ways" some 50 or 60 times, as a bed under a Bono interview clip, before letting the song play on. So, in these cases, these were certainly not single versions.
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sriv94
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| Posted: 06 April 2007 at 2:49pm | IP Logged
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Was the show distributed on vinyl, though? I remember once while hearing the show on WLS in Chicago that during the playing of Barry Manilow's "Read 'Em And Weep," there was a skip.
(The Manilow tune never made it to WLS' playlist, but was carted up as it was played during their local survey countdown show.)
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Paul Haney
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| Posted: 06 April 2007 at 3:39pm | IP Logged
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For most of the show's run it was distributed on vinyl (not sure if reel-to-reel was also available). I own a couple of them from 1984-85. I'm not sure when they first switched to CD, but I'm guessing around 1988-89. Occasionally I would hear a skip or better yet, the DJ would get the show out of sequence, which really sucked (one of my first radio gigs involved playing the weekly Dick Clark countdown show and I made damn sure that everything was in sequence and the show timed out to the second).
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eric_a
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| Posted: 06 April 2007 at 5:27pm | IP Logged
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From 1970, for the first couple of years, the show was distributed on reel-to-reel. Within a couple years, they started pressing vinyl instead. Based on some shows I have, I know they were still pressing vinyl by late 1988, and that they had CDs available by sometime in 1989, probably with some overlap in the meantime.
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Paul Haney
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| Posted: 07 April 2007 at 11:18am | IP Logged
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Just FYI,
The first four-hour AT40 was October 7, 1978 and the first show distributed on CD was July 1, 1989.
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 07 April 2007 at 11:52am | IP Logged
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Interesting.
Paul, When was the very first AT40? (I heard it was July 4th weekend, 1970 - is that true?) And when was the last show with Casey, before Shadoe Stevens took over?
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 07 April 2007 at 11:54am | IP Logged
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<This is mentioned in Rob Durkee's book about American Top 40.>
What is the name of that book? I think I'd like to get it. Are there any other books on the subject of AT40 (I mean, other than the Whitburn chart books)?
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eric_a
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| Posted: 07 April 2007 at 2:25pm | IP Logged
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EdisonLite wrote:
Paul, When was the very first AT40? (I heard it was July 4th weekend, 1970 - is that true?) And when was the last show with Casey, before Shadoe Stevens took over? |
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I believe it was somewhere either on or close to 7/4/70. I have a recording somewhere, and I know #1 was "Mama Told Me (Not To Come)," if someone can cross-reference that.
Rob Durkee's book is called "American Top 40: The Countdown Of The Century." Looks like it's out of print. It's expensive ($40) at amazon, but some half.com sellers have priced it more affordably.
Pete Battistini also wrote a book called "American Top 40 With Casey Kasem (The 1970's)" that appears to be an encyclopedic look at each show. This is still in print.
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JMD1961
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| Posted: 07 April 2007 at 5:30pm | IP Logged
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Here's a link with a lot of information:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Top_40
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Paul Haney
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| Posted: 07 April 2007 at 6:01pm | IP Logged
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EdisonLite wrote:
Interesting.
Paul, When was the very first AT40? (I heard it was July 4th weekend, 1970 - is that true?) And when was the last show with Casey, before Shadoe Stevens took over? |
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The very first show was July 4, 1970. Casey's last show on the "original" AT40 was August 6, 1988.
I consider Rob Durkee and Pete Battistini to be the authorities when it comes to AT40. Rob actually worked on the show and his book tells the story from beginning to end with lots of "behind-the-scenes" perspectives... also his "American Top 40 Fun & Games" website is quite entertaining. Battistini has the world's biggest and best private collection of AT40 shows and his book really goes into great detail about the contents of each show. I used to think I was the only one that was really into the show, but Rob and Pete blow me away with their knowledge and insight.
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 09 April 2007 at 10:58am | IP Logged
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The books about AT40 are an eye-opener for long-time fans like me, and, presumably, most of you. (And not just because I'm mentioned in the acknowledgments of Rob Durkee's book - right before Debbie Gibson!)
eric_a asked about carts. For those of you that didn't work in radio years ago, carts (short for cartridges) were used universally for everything from IDs, promos, ads, and music all throughout the '70s through the '90s. On old reruns of Frasier, you can see the wall of tapes behind Roz - all full of carts, and typical for radio control rooms. They're the same size as 8-tracks, but the sound quality is broadcast quality, and the insides are configured a little differently.
A radio station would usually record its own carts, so that they would have uniform levels, reliable start cues and so forth. The production guy at the station would "cart up" song additions to the playlist, so that they wouldn't wear out the records. Carts were usually pretty reliable and wouldn't skip, although we can all remember the cart deck getting mad and eating a cart.
AT40 got their music on records, just like the radio stations. Most likely, they recorded their own carts, just like the radio stations as well.
When CDs became more prominent in the late '80s, you would hear a credit that some of the music was provided by TM Century Hitdiscs, which (probably) continues to the present day.
Also, the reel-to-reel distribution of the show lasted about a year-and-a-half. I have a vinyl LP show from November 1971, which is only the third week ever distributed on LP.
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elcoleccionista
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| Posted: 09 April 2007 at 1:43pm | IP Logged
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crapfromthepast wrote:
I did the same thing, writing down the songs every Sunday morning. (99X/WXLO-FM in New York, then 66 WNBC in New York, then WPLJ in New York, then 98PXY in Rochester, NY when I went off to college) I still have the 3-ring binder with all the pages from 1979-1989. Fond memories, indeed!
While AT40 played mostly the single edits, that wasn't a hard and fast rule.
I can think of a few examples off the top of my head.
Frank & Moon Zappa's "Valley Girl" only spent 3 weeks in the top 40 in 1982, and at least one of those was the LP version. (Maybe two?) At some point in the song chart life, they switched from LP to 45, or just faded out early.
Thomas Dolby's "She Blinded Me With Science" was the DJ edit throughout its chart life, not the commercial 45 version, much to the dismay of this particular record buyer...
Murray Head's "One Night In Bangkok" began with an orchestra-type intro, then went straight into the vocals during the first verse. I'm not sure if that's the LP version, but it's certainly not the commercial 45.
I believe that Don McLean's "American Pie" was the DJ edit of the song, which clocked in at 5 minutes or so.
AT40 also used to occasionally edit songs to make the show segments fit into the allotted time. And not just during the year-end countdowns - this was year-round, and based on how much time they had to trim for a particular week. This is mentioned in Rob Durkee's book about American Top 40.
On the plus side, the old AT40 shows are where I first discovered the 45 version of Eddie Money's "Two Tickets To Paradise", with extra guitar overdubs and a totally new vocal track with different words!
I'd use the old shows as a guideline, or maybe a way to give yourself a red flag if you hear something you don't recognize. They're not a be-all, end-all, though. |
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Interesting topic! Had not been reading for a while.
I clearly remember Jody Watley's "Some Kind Of Lover" was played in both its remixed 45 and album versions during its run on AT40.
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anthology123
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| Posted: 09 April 2007 at 4:20pm | IP Logged
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Love to hear AT40 every weekend, but I opted to record Solid Gold Saturday
Night instead. Both were good shows. This could convince me to go with XM.
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Topic: American Top 40
