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eriejwg
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| Posted: 13 June 2007 at 11:07am | IP Logged
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Hello,
Pat and everybody, FABULOUS forum and database!
I am about to purchase the promo 45 for Boston's "Don't Look Back" (for the DJ edit) and have a question.
Did all promo 45's have the DJ edit?
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Pat Downey
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My dj copy lists a running time of (4:05).
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BillCahill
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| Posted: 18 June 2007 at 4:29pm | IP Logged
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I never saw a 45 promo with a short/long, it was mono/stereo short 4:05.
FM stations were given a 12 inch promo which said "special FM version). 5:53
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 19 June 2007 at 7:18am | IP Logged
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Thank Bill, your assessment is true. The copy I purchased was a stereo/mono 45 with a run time of 4:05. I was able to clean it up very nicely in Adobe Audition.
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eric_a
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Thanks to John and Jim, I got to hear the promo version...if you're looking to make your own, there are just a couple cuts:
-Around 2:37 (or possibly up to 2 bars later - it's hard to tell), cut to the guitar lick at 2:49.
-At 3:39 in your edit (3:50 on the CD), cut back to (3:35 on the CD) and repeat that segment (3:35-3:50) twice.
-The edited song fades from about 3:32 to 4:07
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bdpop
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| Posted: 19 September 2007 at 6:44pm | IP Logged
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I have only seen the edited version on promo. I believe "A Man I'll Never Be" had long/short versions on the promo.
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 20 September 2007 at 7:53am | IP Logged
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Once, think I saw the short version of "A Man I'll Never Be" on an import CD online. It was called Rock Guitar Legends.
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torcan
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| Posted: 20 September 2007 at 2:39pm | IP Logged
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I've always been curious as to why certain edits were promo-only and why some were released commercially.
In other words, it was unusual in 1978 to have a 6-minute single - most of the time they were edited for 45 release.
I wonder why that Boston single was released in its full version on 45 when there was an edit available. Does the band have any say in it? Strange when you consider a whole verse and chorus was edited out of "More Than a Feeling".
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sriv94
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torcan wrote:
I've always been curious as to why certain edits were promo-only and why some were released commercially.
In other words, it was unusual in 1978 to have a 6-minute single - most of the time they were edited for 45 release.
I wonder why that Boston single was released in its full version on 45 when there was an edit available. Does the band have any say in it? Strange when you consider a whole verse and chorus was edited out of "More Than a Feeling". |
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I think Gordon's reply to John's question in the "Probably A Silly Question" thread provides some great insight.
And don't forget--the primary purpose of a promo 45 is to get it on radio. Top-40 radio would be very reluctant to play a six-minute single in 1978, but a (4:05) promo is much more palatable. Given the number of differences between promo 45s and commercial 45s, it seems labels valued making sure it was played on radio a bit more than making sure consumers bought the single.
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 20 September 2007 at 8:22pm | IP Logged
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The small station I worked at in 1978 didn't even have the luxury of getting any kind of label service. One of those one station in a small town situations. We got all stock 45 product from RSI (Record Source International) which was in Ohio. And, it was weak service at best. Half of the charted material we had to buy in the local stores because RSI never serviced us with it.
So, long story short, in 1978 we played the 5:53 stock 45 where I was.
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The Hits Man
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torcan wrote:
I've always been curious as to why certain edits were promo-only and why some were released commercially.[QUOTE/]
Well, there are many reasons this happened. Sometimes, when n a song is issued, they release the full-length version. Then, when it becomes a hit, they issue an edit. Sometimes, one version gets sent to a plant on one coast, then the other gets sent to the other. Then, maybe an edit was planned for the promo, but the song gets rush released, and the wrong version gets on 45.
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| In other words, it was unusual in 1978 to have a 6-minute single - most of the time they were edited for 45 release. |
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Actually, it wasn't. There were many 5 or 6+ minute hit singles by that time.
[QUOTE]I wonder why that Boston single was released in its full version on 45 when there was an edit available. Does the band have any say in it? Strange when you consider a whole verse and chorus was edited out of "More Than a Feeling". |
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Radio liked short songs so there was more time for ads.
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jimct
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| Posted: 27 April 2008 at 10:40am | IP Logged
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This post actually refers to my commercial 45 of this song. It has a listed time of (5:53), but an actual time of (5:59).
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TimNeely
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torcan wrote:
I've always been curious as to why certain edits were promo-only and why some were released commercially.
In other words, it was unusual in 1978 to have a 6-minute single - most of the time they were edited for 45 release.
I wonder why that Boston single was released in its full version on 45 when there was an edit available. Does the band have any say in it? Strange when you consider a whole verse and chorus was edited out of "More Than a Feeling". |
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There can be contractual reasons why a 45 is issued to radio edited and to the public unedited.
For example, Guns N' Roses' 45s were released on 45 as they appeared on the albums -- even the almost 9-minute-long "November Rain." (That must have been fun to cut to wax!) But radio was serviced with edits of all their longer hit songs. It'd have been a heck of a lot easier to cut 45s using the edits, but the label might not have had that flexibility.
I suspect that Boston, as an unproven band, had no "pull" with its record company to demand that its singles from the debut be released unedited, thus we got edits of all three singles from that album. By the time the follow-up came along, Tom Scholz probably had the power to demand that Boston's singles be released to the public unedited, thus consumers got the full-length versions of "Don't Look Back" and "A Man I'll Never Be."
This power didn't carry over to radio singles, however. What the labels did to radio singles was considered part of the promotional budget, and thus rarely under the supervision of the artist. The goal was to get the song played -- after all, if no one heard your song, no one was going to buy it, either.
An exception that comes to mind is Elton John in the 1974-75 era, when he was releasing increasingly long singles, culminating with the 6:45 length of "Someone Saved My Life Tonight." As far as I know, his 5-plus-minute epics of that period were not released in edited versions, even to radio. My local Top 40 station, or perhaps the chain to which it belonged (Capital Cities), created its own edits of "Bennie and the Jets," "Don't Let the Sun Go Down on Me," "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds," "Philadelphia Freedom" and "Someone Saved My Life Tonight." At least that is my assumption, because I've never seen any EJ promo 45 from that era with an edited version. Before and after those years, yes, but not in 1974 and 1975.
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sriv94
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TimNeely wrote:
An exception that comes to mind is Elton John in the 1974-75 era, when he was releasing increasingly long singles, culminating with the 6:45 length of "Someone Saved My Life Tonight." As far as I know, his 5-plus-minute epics of that period were not released in edited versions, even to radio. My local Top 40 station, or perhaps the chain to which it belonged (Capital Cities), created its own edits of "Bennie and the Jets," "Don't Let the Sun Go Down on Me," "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds," "Philadelphia Freedom" and "Someone Saved My Life Tonight." At least that is my assumption, because I've never seen any EJ promo 45 from that era with an edited version. Before and after those years, yes, but not in 1974 and 1975.
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You're not from Chicago by any chance, are you? WLS created edits of those songs (edits that I've actually tried to replicate from memory). The funny thing is they also created an edit for "The Bitch Is Back" (even though the song clocked in at under four minutes unedited).
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Hykker
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TimNeely wrote:
At least that is my assumption, because I've never seen any EJ promo 45 from that era with an edited version. Before and after those years, yes, but not in 1974 and 1975.
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What EJ singles pre-1974 had promo edits? The first song of his that I recall seeing a short version was "Empty Garden", and that was from '81. Indeed, the only MCA single of his I can think of that had a radio edit was "I Don't Wanna Go On With You Like That" (and that was just an early fade).
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aaronk
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| Posted: 01 May 2008 at 11:13am | IP Logged
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TimNeely wrote:
| Guns N' Roses' 45s were released on 45 as they appeared on the albums -- even the almost 9-minute-long "November Rain." (That must have been fun to cut to wax!) But radio was serviced with edits of all their longer hit songs. |
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While your point is well taken, I'm pretty sure that "Sweet Child Of Mine" is the only song that was ever officially released with an edit (and remix). I've never been able to find any promos with shorter versions of "Welcome To The Jungle" and "Paradise City."
I think there might be another thread on "November Rain" where someone talks about an unofficial Hitmakers promo that has edits of the song. Radio stations created their own edits and submitted them to Hitmakers, which distributed the edits. It is my understanding that Geffen was not allowed to edit the song even for radio.
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sriv94
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Hykker wrote:
| What EJ singles pre-1974 had promo edits? |
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"Tiny Dancer" had one. And the commercial 45 of "Levon" was a slightly earlier fade.
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80smusicfreak
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TimNeely wrote:
| For example, Guns N' Roses' 45s were released on 45 as they appeared on the albums -- even the almost 9-minute-long "November Rain." |
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Perhaps, but when it comes to determining the true "hit single" versions, I'm wondering just how relevant is what actually appeared on the vinyl 45s here??? Not to stray too far off topic, but I've been meaning to bring up this issue for quite some time now, and this seems like as good an opportunity as any... :-)
Let's not forget, by the time Guns n' Roses first hit the singles charts in June of '88, we Americans had a choice of singles formats in retail stores: vinyl 45 or cassette single. And guess what??? We Yanks chose the cassette single - by then, it was already king! That means the cassette version of EVERY commercial Guns n' Roses single released from 1988-94 outsold its vinyl (or later, CD) counterpart(s). Therefore, why are we considering the "45 versions" (in the literal sense) to be the "official" versions here, especially when as a promotional/sales gimmick, record labels often put different edits/mixes of the same hit song on different formats??? (And quite a number of examples by other artists have already been exposed here on Pat's board!) Who knows, maybe the band had something in their contract that said only the singles on vinyl couldn't be edited/remixed ("Sweet Child o' Mine" notwithstanding)??? I'm not saying that the lengths/versions found on any of the cassette singles from Guns n' Roses do, in fact, differ from the vinyl 45s - I honestly don't know, but it's a REAL possibility there's an example or two - but logically, shouldn't the "cassette single" versions be considered the official "hit single" versions in this group's case??? Yet for whatever reason, when it comes to post-1987 hits, the "singles purists" here always seem to put all the weight on what appeared on either the vinyl 45s or CD singles, even though the cassette was the dominant singles format in the U.S. from 1988-97 (a full ten years!). Only when a hit from that decade was issued exclusively on cassette single does the tape format seem to matter to folks around here - hmmm...
My point to all this: If the song was a hit from that time period - as all Guns n' Roses tunes were - and you're going by what is heard on either the vinyl 45 or CD single, you may be fooling yourself, not to mention keeping Pat's database from being completely accurate...
(*steps off soapbox*)
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torcan
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I'm a vinyl-purist, so I always go by what was on the 45 - but I know I'm probably in the minority. Most of the time, what was issued on the 45 in the '90s (when there was one) was the "hit" version - but there were notable exceptions.
I just never got into cassingles, and if there was no vinyl available would rather have a CD single.
It's funny how a 45 was a single in the '70s and '80s, but wasn't in the '90s!
Edited by torcan on 02 May 2008 at 8:56am
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TimNeely
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sriv94 wrote:
You're not from Chicago by any chance, are you? WLS created edits of those songs (edits that I've actually tried to replicate from memory). The funny thing is they also created an edit for "The Bitch Is Back" (even though the song clocked in at under four minutes unedited).
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I'm originally from the Philadelphia area, and WFIL-AM in Philly also played edits of all those songs. Not sure about "The Bitch Is Back," but it played edits of all those others. I too could create them almost from memory if I wanted to.
WFIL's "Someone Saved My Life Tonight" edit was actually fairly complex. The others mostly cut out a chunk of the song.
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Topic: Boston promo 45 for Don’t Look Back
