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80smusicfreak
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| Posted: 12 October 2014 at 3:33am | IP Logged
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aaronk wrote:
| I also ordered a copy of the 45 without the RE printed on the label... |
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Ha - if it was the copy from eBay seller "nohitters", then that was the other one I let Pat know about when I messaged him some ten days ago (at the time I made the discovery regarding the label differences). Just after I read Pat's new post w/ the bad news above, I went back over to eBay, w/ the intention of messaging "nohitters" about what was etched in the center of his copy - but then I saw he'd already sold it, and noticed it had happened all of FOUR HOURS after I'd left my post above on Thursday morning. :-) I wasn't interested in buying it myself, but I'm glad someone else here got it, and is on the case. (My first guess was it was jimct who'd likely bought it, lol...)
There are currently FOUR different pressings/label variants of the commercial U.S. 45 of "Do What You Do" shown on 45cat. For those who've never seen one, the much rarer variant w/ the printed time of "3:46" and no "RE" in the matrix no. printed on the left is the one in the top row, at the far right: JERMAINE JACKSON - "Do What You Do" (commercial U.S. 45 pressings) There HAS to be at least one other commercial pressing out there, which obviously DOESN'T have the "RE" in the matrix no. etched in the center (regardless of what is actually printed on the labels). And w/ other CDs already in the on-line database that feature "mystery versions" of the song w/ actual run times of (3:58) and (4:20) - not just the (4:25) version w/ the rim shot that Pat mentions - I definitely wouldn't rule out a THIRD pressing of the 45, either (especially one that runs 3:58, since that timing IS the one printed on most copies)! I'd think there would be at least one other promo/dj pressing, too. Based on the new info that Pat just provided, it sounds like Arista had some original "3:46"/no-"RE" labels left over when they made the switch to the "RE"-etched pressings of the 45, and just slapped those old labels on the new copies. Therefore, I believe there's a chance that other copy from "nohitters" may be different from the one Pat just received (in the grooves, that is) - or at least, that's what I'm hoping. Good luck, aaronk! :-)
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aaronk
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| Posted: 12 October 2014 at 10:18am | IP Logged
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Yes, I'm the one who bought the other copy on eBay :) Let's hope it
contains something other than the common 45 version.
Regarding your theory on a version that runs an actual 3:58, I wouldn't
bet money on it. Arista did that "trick" quite often--stating a run time
several seconds shorter to avoid paying a higher licensing fee. There
are plenty of Arista 45s from this era that have incorrect printed run
times, probably on purpose.
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80smusicfreak
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| Posted: 12 October 2014 at 6:49pm | IP Logged
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aaronk wrote:
| Regarding your theory on a version that runs an actual 3:58, I wouldn't bet money on it. Arista did that "trick" quite often--stating a run time several seconds shorter to avoid paying a higher licensing fee. There are plenty of Arista 45s from this era that have incorrect printed run times, probably on purpose. |
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Ah yes, while I may not collect that many 45s myself, as a ten-year regular here on Pat's board, I've certainly learned about that timing "trick" you mention. :-) But have you checked this song in the on-line database since that extensive back-and-forth you had w/ Pat above nine years ago??? I ask because a (3:58) version is ALREADY CONFIRMED to exist, and as I noted in my previous post, it has appeared on two U.S. CDs to date - both have been added to the db since 2005, though. Its first appearance was on the 2004 V/A compilation Body + Soul: Sexy Soul Men (Time-Life 19838), and then just this past January, it was also included on JJ's latest hits collection, 2014's Playlist: The Very Best of... (Arista/LaFace/Legacy 376929) - and it's actually shown as the "single edit" on the back cover of the latter! So are you saying you've confirmed that this (3:58) version that appears on both the Sexy Soul Men and Playlist CDs doesn't exist on a U.S. 45??? If not, then once again, I submit that it could very well be a commercial 45 version that we've yet to uncover - or at the very least, a dj-only version/edit, perhaps???
According to Pat's db, to date, "Do What You Do" has appeared 26 times on U.S. CD. So in order of ACTUAL length, let's review all six CONFIRMED versions of the song on vinyl and/or CD, and what we know about them so far:
1. (3:58) = unknown origin, but claimed as "single edit" by Sony (on two U.S. CDs - see db)
2. (4:17) = second 45 pressing, w/ "RE" etched in vinyl trail-off; no rim shot at the beginning - also different vocal take & remixed vs. LP version (on NO U.S. CDs - see db)
3. (4:20) = unknown origin, but is an edit of the LP version (on two U.S. CDs - see db)*
4. (4:25) = unknown origin, w/ rim shot at the beginning (on 17 U.S. CDs - see db)**
5. (4:47) = LP version (on four U.S. CDs - see db)
6. (5:44) = 12" version (on one U.S. CD - see db)***
*Description per Pat's post from 10 August 2005 above; however, that doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't issued on a commercial or promo 45...
**According to the song's page on Wikipedia, this was also the video version, if this adds any insight. On YouTube: JERMAINE JACKSON - "Do What You Do"
***This may actually need to be revised to read "U.K. 12" version", as at this time, I can't seem to find any evidence that a 12" single was ever issued for this song here in the U.S. (commercial or promo). There are NONE currently or recently listed on eBay, there isn't one shown on Discogs, and according to Joel Whitburn's book, Hot Dance/Disco 1974-2003, it didn't make the dance chart in Billboard, either (not that many ballads ever have). However, the song did do a bit better over in the U.K. (cracked the top 10), where there was definitely a 12" single issued - and it had a printed time of "5:42", which essentially matches the lone U.S. CD appearance (but Funky Town Grooves being a U.K.-based label, of course). Perhaps the U.S. 12" is just really scarce???
So at this time, I contend that only the (4:47) and (5:44) versions of this song are off the table as far as possibly existing on U.S. 45. The (4:17) version is of course already confirmed, and the three that clock in at (3:58), (4:20), and (4:25) are all still in the running - which is why I feel there is a real possibility that even a THIRD version may exist on a U.S. 45! At any rate, I look forward to your analysis after Thursday's purchase arrives... :-)
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aaronk
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| Posted: 12 October 2014 at 9:15pm | IP Logged
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80smusicfreak wrote:
| So are you saying you've confirmed that this (3:58) version that appears on both the Sexy Soul Men and Playlist CDs doesn't exist on a U.S. 45??? |
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Um, how could I possibly confirm this? I'm simply saying that if I were a betting man, I wouldn't bet on Arista getting a printed run time correct.
I can confirm, however, that the 4:25 version commonly found on CD certainly does not match the music video. The video has the 4:17 version found on most 45s--the ones with the "RE" in the runout groove.
BTW, the 3:58 version on Playlist contains the same mix and vocal take as the longer 4:17 45 version (based on the sample from allmusic.com).
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aaronk
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| Posted: 12 October 2014 at 9:37pm | IP Logged
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80smusicfreak wrote:
| Its first appearance was on the 2004 V/A compilation Body + Soul: Sexy Soul Men (Time-Life 19838), and then just this past January, it was also included on JJ's latest hits collection, 2014's Playlist: The Very Best of... (Arista/LaFace/Legacy 376929) - and it's actually shown as the "single edit" on the back cover of the latter! |
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I am reluctant to trust the back cover of the CD as being accurate. Unless the people who produced and mastered the CD have a long track record of getting these things right, this does not automatically lead me to believe a 3:58 single version actually exists on a vinyl 45.
80smusicfreak wrote:
| I submit that it could very well be a commercial 45 version that we've yet to uncover - or at the very least, a dj-only version/edit, perhaps??? |
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I submit that it could be, at the very least, exactly as Pat has labeled it--"neither the 45 nor LP version"--until someone comes forward with actual proof that this 3:58 version exists on a vinyl 45.
Edited by aaronk on 12 October 2014 at 9:55pm
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| Posted: 12 October 2014 at 9:50pm | IP Logged
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80smusicfreak wrote:
4. (4:25) = unknown origin, w/ rim shot at the beginning (on 17 U.S. CDs - see db)**
**According to the song's page on Wikipedia, this was also the video version, if this adds any insight. |
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Actually, the Wikipedia page does not claim this at all. Here's what it says:
Three variations of "Do What You Do" exist:
1: The original album version which has a length of 4:46.
2: The single version with a length of 4:28. This shorter cut is the music video/radio edit version which has an alternate "intense" final refrain and shorter ending.
3: The 12" remix version with a length of 5:44 which appears as track 13 on the U.S. re-release of the 1984 album "Jermaine Jackson.
My conclusion on the Wikipedia article is that whomever wrote this is aware of only one single version, and he/she got the run time incorrect. Could that possibly mean that the Wikipedia author was also the person at Arista in charge of timing the songs for the printed run time???? :-)
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80smusicfreak
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| Posted: 13 October 2014 at 12:27am | IP Logged
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Thanks for researching some of the info I brought up even further, Aaron. :-) I only have a couple versions of the song on CD at this time, so I couldn't confirm certain facts while researching my previous post, such as the Wikipedia claim about the video, which is why I didn't say I actually *believed* it. (BTW, I wasn't trying to split hairs over the Wikipedia author's reported time of "4:28" vs. the actual time of 4:25, and yes, I certainly noticed they were missing some additional versions of the song in their listing - but that wasn't my point.) Same goes for Sony's claim about the "single edit" of the song being on the recent Playlist CD - obviously, I have no proof of that being accurate, either. I was merely putting the claim out there, while trying to say that it lends credibility to that version existing on a U.S. 45. You had given me the impression that you were either dismissing it, or just weren't yet aware of a (3:58) version existing on CD - but if I misinterpreted you there, my apologies. Heck, because of that issue w/ printed times on Arista 45s, you'll note I haven't even been considering an actual (3:46) version, as the copy you just ordered indicates - but who knows, maybe you're about to uncover a SEVENTH version... :-)
The main purpose of my previous post was to put all of the different versions of "Do What You Do" that are known to exist on the table, and sum up where we're at. I did actually spend a couple hours researching the info I typed into that post, and had taken it about as far as I could, w/ the resources I have. :-) Did parts of it need additional research??? Absolutely, and I appreciate you digging deeper into some of those areas already. This is one of the few remaining songs from the '80s that's still a mess (w/ so many "mystery versions"), and because it happens to be by one of my personal favorites from that decade, I'm quite interested in getting to the bottom of this one as well - and Lord knows, when it comes to the actual recordings, you've unquestionably got better ears for this job than I do, Aaron... :-)
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aaronk
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| Posted: 13 October 2014 at 12:15pm | IP Logged
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No need to apologize! I didn't take offense to any of your comments or
research, and in fact, I owe you a THANKS for doing all the additional work.
If it weren't for you, I probably wouldn't have even realized that there was a
potential non-RE version to hunt for on vinyl 45.
This song is also one of my favorites, and I certainly played my 45 to death
back in '84. I'm glad that we're digging further into all the mystery versions.
I'll let you know what the non-RE 45 contains when it arrives, and perhaps
we can at least cross one of the mystery versions off the list.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 15 October 2014 at 12:51pm | IP Logged
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Unfortunately, the copy I just received is not only slightly cracked, but it also contains the exact same 4:17 version, despite the 3:46 printed run time. The runout groove has "RE" in it, even though the label has no indication of "RE." Exact matrix/runout number is AS-1-9279-RE-SA-4 R-13514-SA-4 kdisc KP SLM^8070 1-1.
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80smusicfreak
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| Posted: 18 October 2014 at 6:54pm | IP Logged
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aaronk wrote:
| Unfortunately, the copy I just received is not only slightly cracked, but it also contains the exact same 4:17 version, despite the 3:46 printed run time. The runout groove has "RE" in it, even though the label has no indication of "RE." Exact matrix/runout number is AS-1-9279-RE-SA-4 R-13514-SA-4 kdisc KP SLM^8070 1-1. |
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Thanks for the update, even if it doesn't get us any closer to unraveling this song's many "mystery versions" that still remain. It sounds like this is going to be one of those songs best investigated by going to a good used record store that not only has an extensive selection of old 45s, but has them organized/alphabetized, and isn't afraid to carry multiple copies of most titles - and then start tilting them to the light, and reading the etched matrix nos. for comparison (been there, done that for other titles, lol). Problem is, it's been my experience that most used record stores nowadays just don't bother sorting their 45s anymore (if they have any at all), like they do their LPs! I know plenty of stores that have thousands & thousands of boxed 45s, but they're not in any order, so I don't even bother, since it would take almost a whole day to dig through them all. :-( I actually do know of a couple good places that ARE organized and no doubt have multiple copies of "Do What You Do", and thus would definitely help in this case - but alas, they're both located more than six hours from where I live, so I don't get to visit them as often as I'd like... (*sigh*)
Quote:
| This song is also one of my favorites, and I certainly played my 45 to death back in '84. |
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Just to clarify, while I love most of JJ's stuff dating from 1980-92, "Do What You Do" was actually one of my *least* favorite of his hits from that period, as I tend to favor the uptempo stuff. "Let Me Tickle Your Fancy", "Let's Get Serious", and "Word to the Badd!!" (original single version) are my three favorites. If I had to pick a ballad, I'd definitely go w/ 1989's "Don't Take it Personal", even if it wasn't a top 40 hit (only got to #64 in Billboard and #78 in Cash Box) - in fact, I'd probably put that one fourth, just after "Word to the Badd!!". Oh, and I was just able to actually LISTEN to the video for "Do What You Do" that I linked to in my next-to-last post above, and yes, I can tell now that it's indeed the (4:17) version, just as you said (was having computer problems that night - one more reason I didn't say I actually *believed* what was stated by the Wikipedia author!)...
IMO, "Word to the Badd!!" is definitely a great lost single of his. If you're not familiar w/ it, it was a harsh commentary on brother Michael, recorded & released in late 1991. As a fan of Michael as well, I agreed w/ most of it, as I'd grown somewhat disappointed w/ him since 1987's Bad - both musically, and in his image/persona. (Bottom line: Off the Wall and Thriller were both indisputable classics, and he was a musical genius, as the 2009 film, "This is It", only touches upon - but at that time, my interest in MJ and his music had started to wane...)
I became aware of the song due to the controversy it was stirring both at radio and in the media at the time (there was no video). So as a long-time fan of JJ, I immediately ran out and bought TWO copies of the cassette single (LaFace 24011), one of which I've kept sealed to this day. :-) "Word to the Badd!!" went on to hit #78 pop and #88 r&b in Billboard, although it failed to make the pop chart in Cash Box. It was a one-off single, as first pressings of Jermaine's then-current album, You Said, DIDN'T include the song in any form. In fact, cassette single was the only way to get it - there was no vinyl 45 or CD single issued commercially here in the U.S. - although there was a promo CD single (LaFace LFPCD-4011), which I've since acquired as well...
Shortly after the hype died down in early '92, Jermaine went back in the studio and recorded a NEW version of "Word to the Badd!!", w/ drastically revised lyrics that were instead aimed at a girlfriend - and that version subsequently appeared on second pressings of You Said (both cassette & CD), which are much more common than the originals. In fact, all the way up until just a couple years ago, because I've always owned only a first pressing of the album on cassette, I never even knew there WAS a re-recording of the song - and after finally hearing it, needless to say, it was a major let-down, lol. To this day, the original version has yet to appear anywhere else except on the 1991 commercial cassette single & promo CD single...
Excellent video of the original on YouTube, complete w/ backstory and lyrics supplied by the poster (although I certainly disagree w/ his negative attitude toward Jermaine): JERMAINE JACKSON - "Word to the Badd!!" (original single version) (Could the teens & 20-somethings that dominate today's pop music world possibly get a song like that on the radio today, let alone even write something that takes such a strong stance?!?) Oh, and the lyrically-challenged re-recording, just for comparison: JERMAINE JACKSON - "Word to the Badd!!" (re-recorded LP version)
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aaronk
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I emailed about 5 or 6 sellers asking if any of them had a copy with no "RE" in the runout groove. One of them responded with a "yes, this copy does not have 'RE'." I asked him to double check before shipping it, and I bought it. Well, the copy arrived in the mail, and it DOES have "RE" in the runout groove AND on the label. I'm not sure if the guy was extremely careless, dishonest, or just plain stupid. The hunt continues...
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waldo
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| Posted: 24 November 2014 at 3:44pm | IP Logged
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80smusicfreak wrote:
I became aware of the song due to the controversy it was
stirring both at radio and in the media at the time
(there was no video). So as a long-time fan of JJ, I
immediately ran out and bought TWO copies of the cassette
single (LaFace 24011), one of which I've kept sealed to
this day. :-) "Word to the Badd!!" went on to hit #78 pop
and #88 r&b in Billboard, although it failed to
make the pop chart in Cash Box. It was a one-off
single, as first pressings of Jermaine's then-current
album, You Said, DIDN'T include the song in any
form. In fact, cassette single was the only way to get it
- there was no vinyl 45 or CD single issued commercially
here in the U.S. - although there was a promo CD single
(LaFace LFPCD-4011), which I've since acquired as well...
Shortly after the hype died down in early '92, Jermaine
went back in the studio and recorded a NEW version of
"Word to the Badd!!", w/ drastically revised lyrics that
were instead aimed at a girlfriend - and that version
subsequently appeared on second pressings of You
Said (both cassette & CD), which are much more common
than the originals. In fact, all the way up until just a
couple years ago, because I've always owned only a first
pressing of the album on cassette, I never even knew
there WAS a re-recording of the song - and after finally
hearing it, needless to say, it was a major let-down,
lol. To this day, the original version has yet to appear
anywhere else except on the 1991 commercial cassette
single & promo CD single...
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Hmmm. Interesting. I've never seen a copy of You Said,
LP, CD or tape without at least one version of "Word to
the Badd!!" featured on it. you're saying there are
records, cassettes without it entirely?
FYI. the original MJ-bashing version appears on UK, EU
and Japan CD's of You Said.
Edited by waldo on 24 November 2014 at 3:48pm
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Paul Haney
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Bump
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Underground Dub
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Thanks, Paul.
This one is a mess...
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aaronk
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| Posted: 07 July 2021 at 8:09am | IP Logged
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I'll summarize as best as I can:
LP version (4:47)
45 version (4:17) - remixed, different vocal take from LP version
12" version (5:44) - remixed, different vocal take from LP version
incorrect version on CD (4:25) - same mix and vocal take as the hit version but a different edit; editing this version to match the 45 will come close, but resulting edit will fade sooner than 45
shorter incorrect version on CD (3:58) - same as 4:25 incorrect edit, but faded :27 earlier
Note: The 12" version remix is very similar to the 45 version remix, but they are not identical. Therefore, the 12" version cannot be edited to create the 45 version.
To date, I've not found a 45 that does not have "RE" in the deadwax. At one time I had a cracked 45 that had no "RE" on the label matrix but still did have "RE" in the runout.
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music4life75
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| Posted: 04 November 2022 at 10:30pm | IP Logged
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Bump again! So I discovered an even shorter version of "Do What You Do." It runs 3:32 and it sounds like a legit version to me. Here's the link.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CU-9lHrSe6k
Edited by music4life75 on 04 November 2022 at 10:30pm
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aaronk
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| Posted: 04 November 2022 at 11:15pm | IP Logged
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I don't think this shorter version ever made it to vinyl in 1984. It seems like a very early fade of the correct 7" version.
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AutumnAarilyn
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| Posted: 05 November 2022 at 11:09am | IP Logged
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Hey Aaronk:
I just listened to the 12" and the 7" and what did you find
different between them where they can't be edited down.
Were vocals over a different spot or different percussion
in the mix?
That elusive 7" y'all are looking for may have been only
been issued in the UK.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 05 November 2022 at 11:20am | IP Logged
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The overall mix of the 12" version is just a tiny bit different, and there is also a vocal overdub on the 7" version that is not on the 12" version. At 3:25 of the 12" version you don't hear the "oooooh" background vocals that are on the 45 (at 3:13).
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mjb50
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On YouTube there is a US 45 playing slightly fast so that it ends at 4:13. The fadeout goes into a section with ad-libbed vocals: "ohh whatcha do, there to do, whatcha do".
Apparently the French 45 (also playing slightly fast, I think) has the same version, possibly faded out slightly sooner in that same section (the rip cuts off before the fade is done).
I have a clean 4:17 digital copy from AK's collection which has swapped left & right channels (e.g. intro shaker is on the left, strings slightly right), and it fades out even sooner, right after "ohh whatcha do" in that section. Is this how it is on some 45s, and is this an actual vinyl rip?
AutumnAarilyn wrote:
| That elusive 7" y'all are looking for may have been only been issued in the UK. |
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As it turns out, the UK 45 is also on YouTube, albeit as a mono rip of just one channel (the one without the shaker). It's the same as the others, but fades out at 4:13, right before the "ohh whatcha do" section.
I think the single version(s) use a combination of vocal takes, partly the same as the LP (just with different effects) and partly some that are not on the LP.
As for 12" versions:
• 5:25 Remix – Chorus vocal starts @ 1:22. On a recent bootleg compilation. This may be the Sanny X remix.
• 5:43 12" Remix Version – Has 0:04 rimshot countoff on CD but not the EU 12" (601 596). Chorus vocal starts @ 0:37. From the 2012 expanded edition of Dynamite.
• 5:48 Instrumental – This is on the EU 12" (601 596) and Has 2 rimshots, then a pause before the start. No vocals.
• 5:37 Club Mix – Same vocal takes as LP version. No strings. It's on the above bootleg and the 2009 Jermaine Jackson JP reissue.
About the common 4:25 CD version (and its earlier-faded 3:58 "Single Edit" companion): it begins with a single rimshot, but there's also a simultaneous kick drum on it. The rimshots on the 12" versions don't have the kick.
Edited by mjb50 on 06 November 2022 at 1:30am
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Jermaine Jackson - Do What You Do
