Top 40 Music on Compact Disc: Whitney Houston

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Topic: Whitney Houston - How Will I Know

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EdisonLite
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Posted: 08 March 2009 at 9:38pm \| IP Logged

<I've always found these types of sources to be hissy, especially on '80s-era songs.>

I know that can happen but I found 2 or 3 really good single mix sources by using their DVD or videotape counterparts:

Air Supply - The Power of Love (from DVD)
Belinda Carlisle - I Feel the Magic (from the VHS store-bought compilation of Belinda's videos!)
John Hunter - Tragedy - from a VHS compilation of various videos, probably a promo thing for in-store play.

I know there's a post I started for using DVD sources for single mixes unavailable elsewhere, but does anyone know any other good VHS store-bought tapes that are good sources for single mixes unavailable in the digital realm (CD/DVD)?

edtop40
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Posted: 02 October 2009 at 2:46pm \| IP Logged

my commercial 45 issued as arista 9434 lists a run time on the label as 4:10 but actually runs 4:32 and is identical to the version from the original cd "whitney houston"....the last 0:15 of the song, starting at the 4:17 mark are the same.....BUT.....it sounds different on both the 45 AND cd versions than the rest of the song........if anyone needs this version, drop me a pm....

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crapfromthepast
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Posted: 10 July 2011 at 4:37pm \| IP Logged

Yikes! Just ran squarely into the above three pages of posts for this song. Perhaps, even double yikes.

I bought the 45 when it was near the top of the charts. Mine came with a picture sleeve and has the "RE-1" designation in the matrix number. Printed time of 4:10, actual time of 4:32. It has the spliced-on LP version as mentioned above. The splice occurs exactly two beats before the downbeat 4:17, at the beginning of the two-beat drum fill. The RE-1 45 uses the exact fade points of the LP version, and doesn't fade early.

In addition to the instrumentation change, there's a slight tempo change. My 45 starts at 119.6 BPM, drifts slightly to 119.7 BPM over the course of the song, and drops abruptly to 118.9 BPM at the splice. The original 45 runs 119.6-119.7 BPM throughout, and the original LP mix runs 118.9 BPM throughout, so it's all consistent with the splicing-in-the-LP-ending theories.

The versions on The A List Disc 34 and TM Century GoldDisc 923 also have the dubbed-in LP portion with the mix and tempo changes, but they de-emphasize the transition by beginning their fade slightly before the 4:17 splice. Total run time on The A List is 4:28.

Trying to figure out why this even exists at all, and can only come up with two reasons:

(1) Arista wanted a later fade than the original 45 mix, but the 45 mix faded before the desired fade point. For the desired fade point, there wasn't any portion of the song available with the 45 mix, so Arista used the only mix that was available, the LP mix. Compared with the original 45 mix, the modified 45/LP mix fades about 8-12 beats later.

(2) Tape damage. When the first pressings ran out and Arista had to make more stampers/mothers, something bad happened to the last ten seconds of the tape. I kinda doubt that this is the case.

I had never noticed all this before, and had never played my commercial 45. (Not really a song for pleasure-listening...) Kinda fun to play a mint 45!

Edited by crapfromthepast on 11 July 2011 at 7:06am

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abagon
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Posted: 11 July 2011 at 9:28am \| IP Logged

The vinyl LP that I imprted from the US was unluckily the 2nd pressing LP. My US pressing LP contains (4:32) version that is the same as the 45 of the US pressing.
I feel that the 2nd pressing vinyl LP is identical to the commercial 45.
My 1st pressing CD that is made in Japan released in 1985 contains (4:27) version. The (4:27) version doesn't have the first :08 drums beat found on the 45 version and the LP. However, the (4:27) version isn't an edited version of the (4:32) version.

--abagon

MMathews
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Posted: 06 January 2017 at 6:29pm \| IP Logged

aaronk wrote:

jimct wrote:

"How Will I Know" stock deadwax is AS1-9434-SA SR1 1-1 (with the first "4" deeply and repeatedly retraced, covering an initial "3"). There is no "heartbeat" sung during the fade.

I have both a stock and promo copy in front of me with the same matrix numbers, and they both do have the "heartbeat" vocal on the fadeout. The conclusion here is that all 4:29 (actual) 45s have the original 45 remix. All 4:33 (actual) 45s with the "RE" in the deadwax have the 45 remix with the LP ending spliced on.

I was digging around for a reference dub of the earlier pressing with "heartbeat" in the fade but our stock copy has the "RE" with LP ending. However I pulled a Flashback re-issue 45 AFS-9554 and that has the full remix with "heartbeat" in the fade. The deadwax on this is AFS-9554-SA-SR1.
So oddly enough, this tape was still around somewhere when this was pressed in the early 90's.

Only frustrating thing is the the time is different, it runs (4:25) not (4:27) as it should so it's either faded earlier or at a different speed. If i find something to compare it to I'll report back.

MM

Ron S
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Posted: 10 July 2018 at 1:33pm \| IP Logged

MMathews wrote:

aaronk wrote:

jimct wrote:

"How Will I Know"
stock deadwax is AS1-9434-SA SR1 1-1 (with the first "4" deeply and
repeatedly retraced, covering an initial "3"). There is no "heartbeat" sung
during the fade.

I have both a stock and promo copy in front of me with the same matrix
numbers, and they both do have the "heartbeat" vocal on the fadeout. The
conclusion here is that all 4:29 (actual) 45s have the original 45 remix. All
4:33 (actual) 45s with the "RE" in the deadwax have the 45 remix with the
LP ending spliced on.

I was digging around for a reference dub of the earlier pressing with
"heartbeat" in the fade but our stock copy has the "RE" with LP ending.
However I pulled a Flashback re-issue 45 AFS-9554 and that has the full
remix with "heartbeat" in the fade. The deadwax on this is AFS-9554-SA-
SR1.
So oddly enough, this tape was still around somewhere when this was
pressed in the early 90's.

Only frustrating thing is the the time is different, it runs (4:25) not (4:27) as
it should so it's either faded earlier or at a different speed. If i find
something to compare it to I'll report back.

MM

Isn't the 4:25 runtime the same as the LP version? I might pick this up since I
have the 45 version with the LP ending.

smallworld
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Posted: 07 February 2021 at 5:05am \| IP Logged

The full single remix (i.e. no tacked on LP ending) appears to be on the video at the link

Whitney Houston - How Will I Know (Official Video)

I presume the audio comes from the Deluxe Anniversary Edition (2010) of Houston's debut album.

Has anyone ripped the audio from that DVD? Is it a lossless or lossy source?

thecdguy
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Posted: 07 February 2021 at 11:34am \| IP Logged

smallworld wrote:

I don't know about the Audio from the DVD, but the CD itself has what I assume is the Single Version of "How Will I Know" and it's lossless. It seems strange that on
the Anniversary disc, they opted to use the Single Version of "How Will I Know", but then used the original Album Version of "Greatest Love Of All", which also had a
Single Version. It seems labels usually reissue Albums they way they were originally released, but that wasn't the case here.

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Brian W.
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Posted: 07 February 2021 at 4:03pm \| IP Logged

smallworld wrote:

The full single remix (i.e. no
tacked on LP ending) appears to be on the video at the
link

hlhBg">Whitney Houston - How Will I Know (Official
Video)

I presume the audio comes from the Deluxe Anniversary
Edition (2010) of Houston's debut album.

Has anyone ripped the audio from that DVD? Is it a
lossless or lossy source?

The audio doesn't come from the Deluxe Anniversary
Edition of her first album. I just listened to that on
Spotify... it has the first-pressing 45 version
without the "heartbeat." As far as I know, the 2nd
press 45 version with "heartbeat" in the background
vocals on the fadeout is still M.I.A. on CD.

I don't have the DVD, but if you crank up the audio on
the YouTube video it's extremely hissy on the fadeout.

Edited by Brian W. on 07 February 2021 at 4:04pm

EdisonLite
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Posted: 07 February 2021 at 4:14pm \| IP Logged

How many mixes of "How Will I Know" are there exactly, including European and extended versions? Can someone outline them here? It's hard to keep track!

smallworld
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Posted: 07 February 2021 at 5:56pm \| IP Logged

1) Original LP Version

Whitney Houston - How Will I Know (original video)

2) Single Remix

Whitney Houston - How Will I Know (Official Video)

3) Single Remix w LP Ending

How Will I Know

4) Dance Mix

Whitney Houston: "How Will I Know" (European Dance Mix - 1985)

5) Dub Mix

Whitney Houston - How will I know (1985 Dub mix)

6) Dance Re-Mix

Whitney Houston - How Will I Know (A John "Jellybean" Benitez Dance Re-Mix)

7) Instrumental

Whitney Houston - How Will I Know (Instrumental Version - Official Audio)

Edited by smallworld on 07 February 2021 at 5:59pm

EdisonLite
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Posted: 07 February 2021 at 6:38pm \| IP Logged

Thanks for the info. That's a lot of versions. Even the debut "Whitney Houston" CD had 2 (or 3?) different versions depending on when you bought the CD. I have 2 of them. I bought the 2nd version to get the "acoustic piano" mix of "Greatest Love" in addition to the "electric piano" mix. Only early versions had the acousti mix. I was pleasantly surprised to get a different version of "How Will I Know" as well. I guess the early printings had the album versions; and the later pressings had the single versions. There may have even been an "in between" period where they added the single mix for the 3rd single ("How Will I Know") but not yet the following single ("Greatest") - which would possibly mean 3 different CDs a person might get. But is there also a version from way back then that had the "single remix with the LP version" or was that just on a CD single, etc.?

I didn't realize there was a single remix w/ LP ending. Where does the switch occur? And was this ever on a proper Whitney CD?

aaronk
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Posted: 07 February 2021 at 10:19pm \| IP Logged

Yes, it's the first issued 45 version that's not on CD to my knowledge. The single remix w/LP ending is what commonly appears on CD, and this was issued originally on 45s with the "RE" in the deadwax. The switch occurs at 4:17. You can hear the instrumentation change, as well as an increase in bass (EQ).

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Aaron Kannowski
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Brian W.
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Posted: 08 February 2021 at 5:17am \| IP Logged

aaronk wrote:

Yes, it's the first issued 45 version
that's not on CD to my knowledge. The single remix w/LP
ending is what commonly appears on CD, and this was
issued originally on 45s with the "RE" in the deadwax.
The switch occurs at 4:17. You can hear the
instrumentation change, as well as an increase in bass
(EQ).

Oh, is it? I'm so confused. I thought the single remix
with LP ending is what was NOT on CD. My mistake.

aaronk
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Posted: 08 February 2021 at 7:49am \| IP Logged

Yes, my copy of the Whitney Houston CD has the single remix with the LP version ending tacked on. I've never found a disc that has the full single mix, but perhaps there is one I don't know about. I had to take the ending from vinyl.

Edited by aaronk on 08 February 2021 at 7:50am

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Aaron Kannowski
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aaronk
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Posted: 08 February 2021 at 8:06am \| IP Logged

To help clear up any confusion:

1) The original LP version and mix starts with the keyboard melody right from the beginning. At 4:18 of this version, when Whitney ad-libs "oooh" there are NO background vocals.

2) The first issued 45 version, which does not have "RE" in the deadwax, is a remix that opens with just drum beats. The keyboard melody comes in at 0:08. At 4:24, this is the spot where Whitney ad-libs "oooh," and at the same time, the background singers sing the word "heartbeat." To my knowledge, this version is still MIA on CD.

3) The second issued 45 version, which has "RE" in the deadwax, matches the first 45 version up to 4:17. At this point, it switches to the LP version for the rest of the song. It's a fairly obvious change in EQ, which is the giveaway for me. Because it switches to the LP mix, you no longer hear the backup singers sing the word "heartbeat" when Whitney sings the "oooh," which occurs on this version at 4:24. This version is on my copy of the self-titled CD, and it's the only 45 version that I'm aware of on CD.

Edited by aaronk on 08 February 2021 at 9:16am

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Aaron Kannowski
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aaronk
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Posted: 08 February 2021 at 9:12am \| IP Logged

One more thing, Ron has these two versions in his library labeled as "hit 45" and "non-hit 45," but is there really a "non-hit" 45 version? I had the non-RE 45 (first pressing) as a kid, and I'm sure I didn't buy it until the song was well into its chart run. It would seem that both the non-RE and the RE 45s were pressed during the song's chart run, which would make them both hit versions.

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crapfromthepast
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Posted: 08 February 2021 at 10:39am \| IP Logged

Aaron - I picked the "hit"/"non-hit" notation based only on a hunch, and a convenient way to tell the two versions apart. My logic was that if the original version was doing just fine, there would have been no need to release a second version. That's pure conjecture on my part, though.

I'd be interested to learn when the second (RE-1) version was released. I picked up my copy in the New York City suburbs as the song was entering the top 5 nationally.

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smallworld
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Posted: 08 February 2021 at 12:07pm \| IP Logged

"The #1 Video Hits" (1986) might be a digital source for the single remix, provided it was used on the laserdisc release.

Whitney Houston – The #1 Video Hits

EdisonLite
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Posted: 08 February 2021 at 2:58pm \| IP Logged

I don't have that 4-song comp on Laserdisc or VHS but I do have Whitney's "Greatest Hits" DVD with 30 music videos. Wouldn't that have the same music video (including audio) as what's on this 4-song Laserdisc of the videos from her 1st album?

So maybe it's there digitally. I'll have to pull out the DVD, but first I have to get familiar with what happens on the audio after 4:17. Aaron provides a good explanation of what's going on in these different versions, so that will be very helpful.

Incidentally, I've pulled songs from commercially available VHS tapes (when the single mix was only available there, and on vinyl records), and I've found the files often to be lossless. In fact, for Belinda Carlisle's "I Feel the Magic" (single mix) - which has never been released on CD (not even her CD singles boxed set), I pulled it from a commercially available VHS tape years ago. Then when the music video eventually came out on a DVD, I pulled it from there, only to find it went to higher frequencies (in the spectral view) on the VHS tape! So while VHS may not be "digital", it can be a good a source (or better) than a DVD for getting a single mix that doesn't come from vinyl.

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