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aaronk
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| Posted: 31 December 2008 at 5:09pm | IP Logged
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chendagam wrote:
| ...It starts with 4 measures of the "hip hop to the bla bla" ...At the end of that it has some instrumental bars before fading out, unlike the quick fade on the commercial 45. |
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The version you are describing starts and ends exactly like the 6:30 version on Rhino's Hip Hop Greats compilation. Obviously they have done further editing on your newly discovered version.
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chendagam
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| Posted: 31 December 2008 at 5:36pm | IP Logged
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So I'm assuming this is not an official edit.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 31 December 2008 at 5:50pm | IP Logged
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Not that I know of. The shortest official edit is the 5:03 promo 45 version.
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chendagam
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| Posted: 01 January 2009 at 11:27am | IP Logged
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I think this new version is edited a little bit better.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 13 March 2010 at 6:46pm | IP Logged
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I was listening to this song again today, and I noticed something I hadn't before. The short promo version (5:03) on my CD copy does not have any echo on the vocals in the right channel. By contrast, the longer versions have echo in both channels on the vocals. So, it appears that the short promo version is a unique mix, unless the CD version has it wrong. I don't have the actual vinyl to compare.
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 23 April 2014 at 8:46pm | IP Logged
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This one turned out to be a real mess.
Early pressings of the 12" single (SH-542) and promo 45 (SH-752) used a plain red label on the records, with a boring-looking "SUGARHILL RECORDS" at the 12 o'clock on the label. The artist on both is credited to "Sugarhill Gang", not "Sugar Hill Gang" as appears on some later versions.
The first pressings credited the writers as S. Robinson-H. Jackson-M. Wright-G. O'Brien, published by Sugarhill Music Inc., and a Sylvia Inc. Production. No mention of Chic or "Good Times" on the original red-label pressings. Later pressings, all with the familiar blue label, credit the writers as "Bernard Edwards-Nile Rodgers" and the publisher as Chic Music. Later pressings say "Music Taken From Good Times".
The 12" singles (SH-542), both red-label and later blue-label, all have an A-side denoted as "Long Version", with a printed time of 15:00, and a B-side denoted as "Short Version", with a printed time of 6:30.
The promo 45 (SH-752), which only exists with a red label and was never released commercially, has an A-side denoted as "Short Version", with a printed time of 4:55, and a B-side denoted as "Long Version", with a printed time of 6:30. So apparently, 6:30 can either be considered short or long, depending on whatever's on the flip side.
There was an album released in 1980 called Sugarhill Gang (SH-245, blue label only), which includes "Rapper's Delight" with a printed time of 4:55, written by Bernard Edwards and Nile Rodgers, published by Chic Music Inc, produced by Sylvia Inc., "Music taken from Good Times".
There was no commercial 45 in the US that used "Rapper's Delight" as an A-side, but the song did appear as B-sides to 1980's "Here I Am" (SH-755) and 1982's "Apache" (SH-774), both with a printed time of 4:55.
That's all that was released in the US at the time - printed times of 15:00, 6:30, and 4:55. I'll break these down in detail below. It seems that there were European 45s with printed times of 3:58 - I don't have these.
15:00 version
Starts with a percussion-oriented intro for the first 17 seconds. I'd heard that this intro part was supposed to be the hook from the 1979 disco hit "Here Comes That Sound Again" by Love De-Luxe, but producer/writer Alan Hawkshaw wouldn't allow it. Too bad for Alan Hawkshaw, who remains largely unknown today.
The Good Times bassline starts at 0:17. Lyrics start at 0:34, with "I said a hip, hop..." There's another repetition of the intro at 4:35.
There are multiple pressings of the 15:00 version, which complicates things.
I assume that red-label 12" was the first pressing. It has a matrix number of "VID-152-RE". The RE usually means a reissue, so there could conceivably be an even earlier version somewhere. My red-label VID-152-RE version starts to fade at 13:54 and fades out completely around 14:18.
I have a blue-label version of the 12" that also has a matrix number of VID-152-RE. This version tracks very closely with the red-label version - it's clearly based on the same source tape. It also starts to fade at 13:54, but fades out sooner at 14:16.
In both of the above, there's an odd dropout in the left channel at 12:16 on the line "Frankie Crocker in stereo". The drummer stops playing the hi-hat for 4 beats over that line.
I only bring up the dropout because I have a later version of the 12" that overcorrects for the dropout. It's matrix number VID-152-REXX. After about 12:17 or 12:18, the left channel increases in volume by about 2 dB. On this version, the fade starts at 14:10 (16 seconds later than the first pressing), and extends out to 14:25 (7 or 9 seconds later than the first pressing). The fade points and lengths are the only differences.
Pat states earlier in the thread that there was also a version of the 12" that ran 14:52. (Pat - can you confirm that it's 14:52 and not 14:25, and can you provide the matrix number?)
Abagon reports a version running 14:28, with a matrix number of VID-152-RE2.
When it comes to finding the "15:00" version on CD, your best bet is probably Rhino's Rapper's Delight The Best Of Sugarhill Gang (1996). Here, it runs 14:35. It also runs about 0.7% slower than the actual 12" singles. If you account for the speed difference, the tail of the fade extends three seconds longer than the tail on the 14:25 VID-152-REXX version of the 12" single. Neither the speed difference nor the length difference is really significant. This is probably as good as the 12" single is going to sound on CD, even though the mastering on Best Of is too loud and clips a lot on the snare/claps. I didn't hear any dropout for the "Frankie Crocker" line.
The version on Rhino's Street Jams Hip-Hop From The Top Part 1 (1992) edits the instrumental intro back onto the end of the song, with an edit at 14:08. Not cool. Avoid.
6:30 version
The 6:30 version on the 12" singles is different from the 6:30 version on the promo 45.
The 12" 6:30 version starts with the second instance of the intro in the 15:00 version. The first 25 seconds of the 12" 6:30 version correspond to 4:35 to 5:01 of the 15:00 version. There's an edit right before the line "Now what you hear is not a test" in the 6:30 12" version. The portions of 0:26 to 1:00 in the 6:30 12" version correspond to 0:44 to 1:18 of the 15:00 version. From 6:18 onward in the 6:30 12" version, it's just instrumental.
The red-label 12" has a matrix number of VID-153-RE-2. The two blue-label 12" singles both have matrix numbers of VID-153-RE. All of these 12" 6:30 versions start their fade at 6:35 and run 6:56.
I don't have any CDs that feature the 6:56 version of the song.
The red-label promo 45 6:30 version cuts off the 17-second intro to the 12" 6:30 version, and starts on the word "Hip". Its fade starts in the same place as the 12" 6:30 version, but the fade is about 11 seconds shorter. The promo 45 6:30 version starts its fade at 6:18 and runs 6:27.
In other words, to create the promo 45 6:30 version, start with the 12" 6:30 version, cut off the first 17 seconds, and shorten the fade by 11 seconds.
The promo 45 version is found on Rhino's Hip Hop Greats (1990), where it runs 6:32. Here, the fade starts at the same point as the promo 45 version, but extends out about 4 seconds longer.
There's yet another printed 6:30 version on a Sugar Hill compilation 12" single (there no picture jacket, just a generic blue cardboard sleeve with a sticker on it) called The Great Rap Hits (SH-246, 1980). This version runs 6:38. It's just like the promo 45 6:30 version, but longer. To create this version, start with the 12" 6:30 version, cut off the first 17 seconds, and shorten the fade by only two seconds.
The version on Kurtis Blow Presents The History Of Rap Vol. 2 has a different intro. It uses the first instance of the instrumental intro in the 15:00 version, which includes 17 seconds of the Good Times bassline, instead of the second instance of the instrumental intro, which doesn't. The fade is about six seconds shorter than the true 12" 6:30 version. Avoid.
The version on Connoisseur Collection's 5-CD 100 All Time Classic Dance Hits Of The 1970s (1988) starts with the word "Hip" like the promo 45 6:30 version, but fades out way too early, right in the middle of the Kaopectate bit. Avoid.
4:55 version
Starts with the vocal line "Now what you hear is not a test."
It sounds like the 4:55 versions are mixed a little differently than the others. I hear reverb on the vocals, but the other instruments sound very dry. The claps have no reverb here, but sound like they do have reverb on the others.
The red-label promo 45 version runs 5:00, and has matrix number VID-521-RE-2.
The LP version on the Sugarhill Gang album (SH-245, 1980) also runs 5:00, and is essentially the same as the promo 45 version.
The versions on the B-sides to both "Here I Am" and "Apache" both used the same metal stamper parts, so they're completely identical. Both matrix number 7-VID-526, both starting their fades a little earlier than the promo 45, and both running 4:55.
The 4:55 version is well-represented on CD. Rhino's Millennium Funk Party (1998) runs 5:02 and sounds very good. Priority's Rapmasters`10 (1989) runs 5:01 and also sounds very good.
Others
Rhino's Best Of Sugar Hill Records starts off like the promo 45 6:30 version (on the word "hip"), but edits out a big chunk of it, jumping at 2:35 from "take her friend" to "have you ever went over". Avoid.
Rhino's Tom Joyner Presents The Old School Mix Returns (2002) starts off like the 15:00 version, but runs too fast and mixes into another song at the second instrumental intro portion. Avoid.
Disky's 8-CD Greatest Hits Of The '80s (2002) is an extremely early fade of the 15:00 version, fading out at the second instrumental intro portion to run only 4:51. Avoid.
Connoisseur Collection saw it fit to include "Rapper's Delight" on both their '70s box and their '80s box. On the 5-CD 100 Dance Hits Of The 80s (1990), it may very well be the UK 45 version. (I don't have the UK 45, so can't confirm either way.) It runs 3:58. The intro uses only 9 seconds of the instrumental intro (instead of 17 seconds for the 12" versions), then 8 seconds of the Good Times bassline (instead of 17 for the 15:00 version). The first line at 0:17 is "I said a hip hop...", which mirrors the 15:00 version. There's a very pronounced edit at 0:26, going from "boogie the beat" to "now what you hear." Before the edit, the mix matches the 15:00 version, with reverb on the claps. After the edit, the mix matches the 4:55 version, with no reverb on the claps. This version matches the 4:55 version all the way to the end, but fades early before the line "Guess what, America, we love you."
Conclusion
Here are the versions, summarized:
Printed 15:00
Actual 14:16, 14:18, 14:25, 14:28, and possibly 14:52 - all different lengths but otherwise the same
Best bet on CD - Rhino's Rapper's Delight The Best Of Sugarhill Gang (1996, 14:35)
Printed 6:30
12" version - actual 6:56
Not available on CD
Printed 6:30
Promo 45 version - actual 6:27
Removes 17-second intro from 6:56 version and fades early
Best bet on CD - Rhino's Hip Hop Greats (1990, 6:32)
Printed 4:55
Actual 5:00 and 4:55
Different mix than 12" versions, not just a different edit
Best bet on CD - Rhino's Millennium Funk Party (1998, 5:02)
Possibly UK 45 version
Runs 3:58
Edited together from both 15:00 mix and 4:55 mix
Best bet on CD - Connoisseur Collection's 5-CD 100 Dance Hits Of The 80s (1990, 3:58)
Edited by crapfromthepast on 24 April 2014 at 7:17am
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aaronk
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| Posted: 23 April 2014 at 11:18pm | IP Logged
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Wow, Ron. That was a mess! Thanks for taking the time to sort through all the edits and lengths, though. I never noticed the mix difference between the short and long versions until you pointed them out.
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Aaron Kannowski
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Steve Carras
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| Posted: 24 April 2014 at 8:33pm | IP Logged
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I got the single in 1979,too and it's the blue Sugarhill label with 15:00 on one side & 6:30 on the other, with the Chic music credit disclaimer (:)) and Syvia's mention, and the radio stations that I'd HEAR it on played that 4:55 promo (NO instrumental intros, middle section OR endings, just "Now what you hear" on the open and "I said a hip hip" on the close!):D Surprised that the promo edit was still being playing years later, as for years I've been only hearing longer versions...
Edited by Steve Carras on 24 April 2014 at 8:37pm
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 25 April 2014 at 1:54pm | IP Logged
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Amazing analysis, Ron. Thanks.
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 25 April 2014 at 7:38pm | IP Logged
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Excellent work indeed, Ron. Thanks for taking the time and effort to sort out and summarize all the info regarding the Sugarhill Gang's "Rapper's Delight". This is very helpful!
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Topic: Rapper’s Delight
