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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 18 March 2008 at 9:10am | IP Logged
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Dan, Astor 1618 is the Australian single. The UK 45 was Pye 17722.
The "Astor Control" notation on an Aussie Janus Potliquor 45 I bought last year piqued my curiosity. Although the 1000-series 45s aren't mentioned, there's an interesting history of Astor Records here:
http://www.milesago.com/industry/astor.htm
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satchdr
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Interesting link on Astor Records history and demise. Thanks for passing that along.
It makes sense because the seller on eBay was from Australia. The label picture you posted was identical (except it states "A Pye Records U.K. Recording" to the right of the center hole, which is what caused my confusion about its origin.)
Dan
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KentT
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| Posted: 26 May 2008 at 11:25am | IP Logged
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Hi,
This song is a British Pye Recording. The US version on that Janus LP mentioned is a mildly rechanneled needledrop. The US 45 version is on Congress Records (A MCA label) and is mono only.
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jimct
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| Posted: 07 June 2008 at 12:10am | IP Logged
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satchdr wrote:
| So, the "25 All-Time Bubblegum Hits" version is both the U.S. 45 version and a slower, but identical, true mono version of the U.S. LP version. |
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Earlier in this thread, Yah Shure had posted an actual Congress 6000 listed 45 time of (2:55), and an actual time of (2:54:6), which also exactly matches my just-done timing. The Varese CD, which we generally seem to have settled on as including the U.S. 45 version, however, runs just (2:49). There has already been so much quality research done for this song, by several folks, so perhaps I missed the answer to this specific question, but could someone re-explain to me why there is a :05 1/2 second time difference between the 45 and the (2:49), mono Varese "25 All-Time Bubblegum Hits" CD version?
Edited by jimct on 07 June 2008 at 12:14am
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 08 June 2008 at 11:28am | IP Logged
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Jim, I just now discovered that I had the Varese 25 All-Time Bubblegum Hits version. The Congress 45 has .196 seconds at the very beginning that is trimmed off of the Varese CD track, leaving it with a tighter beginning of the first note than the 45.
But aside from that, the difference is in the pitch. The CD track runs that much faster than the Congress 45! Steroids, perhaps? :)
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jimct
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| Posted: 09 June 2008 at 11:02am | IP Logged
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Thanks for helping us finally get to the bottom of this one, Yah Shure!
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Todd Ireland
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I hope no one minds me bringing up the Flying Machine's "Smile a Little Smile" once more since some of the "neither the 45 nor LP version" comments in the database still need to be modified. I thought it wouldn't hurt to compile a final summary here just to help clear up any confusion and make sure we're all on the same page:
==> The U.S. 45 and U.S. LP version are identical and run 2:54.
==> The U.S. 45/LP version does not have a 5-1/2 second keyboard intro, but the U.K. 45 version does. Other than that, the two versions are identical (including the oboe interlude from the 2:34-2:44 mark).
As a result, the song as it appears on the 25 All-Time Greatest Bubblegum Hits CD (Varese Sarabande 302066132) would probably be more fully and accurately described with the comment: "U.S. 45 and LP version, but much faster".
The database comment for The History of British Rock, Vol 9 (Rhino 70327) and Sessions Presents Everlasting Love (Sessions/Warner Special Products OPCD-4522) CDs should be modified to state: "U.K. 45 version".
==> Stereo CD versions containing the brief "baaa-ba-ba-ba-baaa-baaa" vocal interlude from 2:34-2:44 are neither the U.S. 45 nor LP version, nor the U.K. 45 version. I still don't know where or when this version first surfaced, nor do I know when the song was first mixed to true stereo. If anyone does have more info on this, please do share.
The remaining database CDs containing "Smile a Little Smile" will need to be evaluated on an individual basis.
Edited by Todd Ireland on 06 January 2012 at 11:34pm
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Pat Downey
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| Posted: 07 January 2012 at 10:42am | IP Logged
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Todd, when I use the comment "neither the 45 nor LP version" it always refers to the US 45 and LP version.
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 07 January 2012 at 3:34pm | IP Logged
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I understand, Pat. However, there have been instances, particularly with Top 40 singles from British artists, where you have elected to specify a "U.K. 45 version" comment in lieu of "neither the 45 nor LP version", especially when such a version very commonly appears on U.S. CD releases. And in this case with "Smile a Little Smile for Me", the U.K. 45 version appears on a number of CDs (presumably on all the mono CD entries except for the 25 All-Time Greatest Bubblegum Hits disc on Varese).
I know your database isn't in the business of identifying and sorting out 45 versions from other countries, Pat. But I think in instances like "Smile a Little Smile for Me" it can be very helpful for subscribers to know the specific origin of some of the "neither the 45 nor LP version" entries that so prevalently keep appearing on CD after CD. (And consequently, I've now opted to upload the U.K. 45 version into my music archive hard drive since it was an official release in the Flying Machine's native country and not some bogus version or edit issued years after the fact.)
Edited by Todd Ireland on 07 January 2012 at 3:38pm
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davidclark
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| Posted: 07 January 2012 at 10:10pm | IP Logged
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and, the Canadian 45 version on Pye includes the organ intro, the organ
bridge and runs faster than the U.S. 45. It likely is the same as the U.K. 45. I
too would love it if someone could identify where/when the stereo version
first appeared.
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TomDiehl1
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Has anyone been able to determine the
origins of the stereo mix?
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KentT
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| Posted: 27 January 2018 at 7:09pm | IP Logged
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Very unusual situation with this record, the US single was
on Congress, the US LP was on Janus (set up in the interim
as a USA branch of Pye Records. Not a common thing to see
a single issued on one label, the LP on a different label.
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davidclark
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| Posted: 27 January 2018 at 8:59pm | IP Logged
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Yep. I got it from a reliable source that it first appeared on 1970 UK
Marble Arch Records VA LP "The Tony Macaulay And John MacLeod
Song Book".
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KentT
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That would make sense. Marble Arch for Americans was one
of Pye Records budget labels.
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crapfromthepast
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I'm still a little fuzzy on some of these details, which I'll indicate below.
UK 45 version
It's mono. It starts with a 5-second-long organ intro. It has a horn solo starting at 2:34. The vocals have little or no reverb. Listen to the first two lines of the song, from 0:19 to 0:24, and notice the absence of reverb.
This is the version that turns up on most (all?) of the mono CDs.
The oldest CD I have with this version is PolyTel Canada's 2-CD Brit's Blitz (1987), which I originally purchased by mail-order from Silver Eagle Records back in the late '80s. It's clearly taken from vinyl, with cracklies on the intro, and and abrupt fade to silence at the end of the last note. Not great. At least it's really in mono here.
There's a different analog transfer on Sessions/Warner Special Products' 2-CD Everlasting Love (1989). It's much better than Brit's Blitz, without a doubt. I'm not sure if I hear vinyl cracklies on the fade, or just tape artifacts. The same analog transfer is used on:- Varese Sarabande's 25 All-Time Greatest Bubblegum Hits (2000) - differently-EQ'd digital clone; cuts off organ intro and starts on the downbeat
There's yet another analog transfer on Good Music Record Company's 2-CD Rare Gold (1990), where it's in fake stereo. Avoid. (There are other disappointments on this disc as well; best to just avoid this collection entirely.)
Finally, there's still one more analog transfer on Rhino's British Invasion Vol. 9 (1991). I do think it sounds better than anything that came earlier, but it's really bright-sounding, with a tremendous treble boost compared to the others. I hear cracklies on the fade, too, and can't tell if they're vinyl cracklies or just tape artifacts.
I'm not sure if the UK LP version was mono or stereo, or if it was the same as the UK 45. Discogs shows a UK album on Pye called Down To Earth With The Flying Machine, with a copyright date of 1970 (the single was released in 1969), and a printed time of 3:58. The 3:58 time is likely an error. 2:58 would make much more sense.
US 45 version
Much like the Beatles' "I Feel Fine"/"She's A Woman" 45, the US 45 of "Smile A Little Smile For Me" adds extra reverb. Plus it edits out the organ intro. And it's slowed by about 2.2%, using the Rhino CD as a reference. (According to a 2008 post above from Yah Shure.)
It's mono. It starts a fraction of a beat before the downbeat, and leaves in a fraction of a beat of the organ intro. The horn solo starts at 2:32. Most importantly, it has reverb on the vocals (and possibly some other instruments, but it's easier for me to hear it on the vocals). Listen to the first line of the song, from 0:14-0:20, especially the tails of the words "accept" and "good".
It's not clear to me if the US 45 version can be created from the UK 45 by adding reverb.
The US 45 version is not available on CD.
The US LP version is the same as the US 45 but in fake stereo. (According to 2008 posts above from Kent T and satchdr.)
Non-hit stereo version
This is the version that turns up on most (all?) of the stereo CDs.
This version is possibly from a 1970 UK compilation LP called The Tony Macaulay And John MacLeod Song Book. (According to a 2018 post above from davidclark.)
It's stereo. It starts with the 5-second-long organ intro. Instead of the horn solo starting at 2:34, it has a sung "ba-ba-ba" portion.
It turned up first on CD on Rhino's Have A Nice Day Vol. 1 (1990), where it sounds quite nice. I'm pretty sure it's from a tape source. I don't hear any cracklies or turntable rumble on the intro or the fade. The same analog transfer is used on:- Time-Life's Superhits Vol. 7 1969 (1991) - shortens the hissy tail of the fade; has proper left/right channels (some Superhits tracks have the left and right channels swapped)
- Time-Life's AM Gold Vol. 1 1969 (1991) - this disc is Superhits Vol. 7 1969 with different packaging, so also shortens the hissy tail of the fade and has proper left/right channels
- Time-Life's Classic Rock Vol. 29 Bubblegum Garage (1991) - slightly shortens the hissy tail of the fade, less so than Superhits/AM Gold, and has proper left/right channels
My recommendations
For the UK 45 version, go with Rhino's British Invasion Vol. 9 (1991). It's really bright-sounding, but it seems to use good source material.
For the US 45 version, you can do a needledrop of the 45, or experiment with editing, changing the speed, and adding reverb to British Invasion Vol. 9, although I'm not sure if doing so will actually reproduce the US 45.
For the non-hit stereo version, go with Rhino's Have A Nice Day Vol. 1 (1990).
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PopArchivist
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Todd Ireland wrote:
| Also, does anyone know if "Smile a Little Smile" was mixed and released in stereo on the Flying Machine's self-titled 1969 vinyl LP? |
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I can't find a stereo version of this song on any official release. If anyone knows where it is at on CD or digital kindly point me in the right direction...
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 22 August 2023 at 11:32pm | IP Logged
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It sounds like the 1970 stereo version never existed on a Flying Machine LP (or
45) but a UK VA comp of Tony Macaulay songs - and it appears on CD on the
Rhino HAND series (and others). Since its first appearance is on an LP from
1970, and not, say 1976, I'd say it's an official 1970 stereo version - and the
only one in existence. And luckily on CD.
Am I misunderstanding your question? It sounds like the US mono 45 version
doesn't exist on CD or digitally anywhere.
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Pat Downey
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| Posted: 23 August 2023 at 7:53am | IP Logged
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Which Rhino Hand made cd does this song appear on?
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crapfromthepast
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Pat - I believe that the post above referred to Rhino's Have A Nice Day series, not the Rhino Handmade series.
Also, the database currently lists Varese Sarabande's 25 All-Time Greatest Bubblegum Hits as "faster than the U.S. 45 and LP version". I believe this should also be "neither the U.S. 45 nor LP version", like most of the other entries. The Varese disc lacks the reverb that was present on the US 45, just like most of the other CD releases of the song.
Edited by crapfromthepast on 23 August 2023 at 9:54am
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EdisonLite
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Yes, sorry for the confusion. To clarify, I was referring to Rhino's Have a Nice
Day series.
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Topic: Flying Machine "Smile a Little Smile"
