Top 40 Music on Compact Disc: The Complete Motown Singles

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Pat Downey
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Posted: 19 August 2008 at 7:13pm \| IP Logged

The first contributor to the reviews of the Complete Motown Singles (Box Sets) has emailed me the contents of the latest volume which is Vol. 10 covering the year 1970. I have already entered this information in the database for those of you that are interested but I wanted to bring up several discrepencies between the data previously in the database and the information presented in the Complete Motown Singles Vol. 10 Box Set.

1) Jackson 5 "ABC". The database states the 45 length is (2:56) but the new box set has a (3:13) length????
2) Edwin Starr "War". The database states this 45 runs (3:20) but it runs (3:27) on this box set??????
3) Diana Ross "Ain't No Mountain High Enough". The database reports dj copies of this 45 run (6:18) and (3:28) but the box set reports a dj long version running (6:18) and a dj short version running (4:05)??????

Any comments on these discrepencies?

Brian W.
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Posted: 19 August 2008 at 7:36pm \| IP Logged

Well, first, if we're going to do this, then let's not get our wires crossed. I was already over half finished with Volume 10, which I announced here on the board two or three days ago that I was working on, and had planned to email it to Pat tonight when I get off work. Now I find out I wasted my time.

Yah Shure
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Posted: 19 August 2008 at 8:54pm \| IP Logged

On the off chance that there may have been a timing difference between the stock and DJ "War" 45, I just clocked the promo, but it, too, runs (3:20). Listed time is (3:12).

Edited by Yah Shure on 21 August 2008 at 2:10pm

Brian W.
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Posted: 20 August 2008 at 2:04am \| IP Logged

Pat Downey wrote:

1) Jackson 5 "ABC". The database states the 45 length is (2:56) but the new box set has a (3:13) length????

It runs an actual 3:11, not 3:13. There are two seconds of silence at the end of the track. Don't know about the 45's running time.

Pat Downey wrote:

2) Edwin Starr "War". The database states this 45 runs (3:20) but it runs (3:27) on this box set??????

I'm getting 3:26, but yes.

Pat Downey wrote:

3) Diana Ross "Ain't No Mountain High Enough". The database reports dj copies of this 45 run (6:18) and (3:28) but the box set reports a dj long version running (6:18) and a dj short version running (4:05)??????

Yes. It lists it that particular DJ copy as Motown M1169, with the "Long Version" (actual 6:16) on the A side and the "Short Version" (actual 4:04) on the B side. It shows a photo of the A-side of the white label 45, which lists the run time as 6:10. The box set refers to the 3:29 version as "commercial version."

But the text does say, "Several promo versions of the song were pressed. A radio edition with long and short cuts used the LP cover as a picture sleeve." It quotes writing on that sleeve that lists the long version as 6:00 and the short version as 3:15, and saying that it's the short version that will be in stores.

Brian W.
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Posted: 20 August 2008 at 2:51am \| IP Logged

Okay, I'm working on "Vol 9: 1969" now, so if anyone else is doing that volume also, PLEASE let me know immediately so we don't duplicate each other's work.

Also, timings are supposed to be from the start of the music to the end of the music. From the tracks Pat posted here from the 1970 volume, it appears the running times listed are just the displayed track times, not the actual song running times.

Edited by Brian W. on 20 August 2008 at 2:54am

Todd Ireland
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Posted: 20 August 2008 at 7:20pm \| IP Logged

Brian W. wrote:

Also, timings are supposed to be from the start of the music to the end of the music. From the tracks Pat posted here from the 1970 volume, it appears the running times listed are just the displayed track times, not the actual song running times.

Absolutely... For anyone contributing run time info on these Motown sets, please make sure you're providing accurate times and not including any silence heard before or after the music.

Pat Downey
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Posted: 20 August 2008 at 8:42pm \| IP Logged

I have just entered the information passed along by Brian for Volume 9 which brings up even more questions.

"Cloud Nine" by the Temptations is listed in the database as running (3:33) but shows up on this box set running (3:10)????

"Never Had A Dream Come True" by Stevie Wonder is included in the 1970 box running (3:10) but shows up in this box running (3:05). How can this song be included in both boxes with considerably different running times????

Edited by Pat Downey on 20 August 2008 at 9:49pm

Brian W.
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Posted: 20 August 2008 at 9:06pm \| IP Logged

I'll try to get some more info on those when I get off work tonight, Pat. It probably explains the two versions of the Stevie Wonder song in the booklet.

I'm just glad that, so far, the mistakes have been for songs where the proper 45 version is available on other CDs!

Edited by Brian W. on 20 August 2008 at 9:07pm

Brian W.
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Posted: 21 August 2008 at 1:55am \| IP Logged

Pat Downey wrote:

"Cloud Nine" by the Temptations is listed in the database as running (3:33) but shows up on this box set running (3:10)????

Oops! My mistake. The 3:10 version is Cloud Nine by Gladys Knight & the Pips, not the Temptations.

Pat Downey wrote:

"Never Had A Dream Come True" by Stevie Wonder is included in the 1970 box running (3:10) but shows up in this box running (3:05). How can this song be included in both boxes with considerably different running times????

Okay, it says that the version in the 1969 set was originally slated as the A-side of Tamla 54188, but changed to "Yester-Me, Yester-You." It was held back and the different mix on the 1970 set was released later as Tamla T54191 A.

But the notes still list the '69 mix as "Released on Tamla T54191 A, January 13, 1970," which is the same number and release date as the version on the 1970 set. So it SEEMS to say that both versions were available commercially.

However, Motown promo 45s usually had the identical catalog number as their commercial counterparts. So it's unclear whether the '69 mix was just released promotionally, commercially, or whether it was even released at all and the notation of its catalog number and release are an error.

Edited by Brian W. on 21 August 2008 at 2:02am

Brian W.
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Posted: 21 August 2008 at 2:01am \| IP Logged

Pat Downey wrote:

1) Jackson 5 "ABC". The database states the 45 length is (2:56) but the new box set has a (3:13) length????

People on the Steve Hoffman board have noticed this now, too.

Someone noticed back on 8-14 that there was "no bass" on "ABC" (this was before anyone noticed the run time difference). He further elaborated, "There is a percussive beat that runs through the song, it sounds like a heavily compressed drumbeat. It's really the unique 'sound' that seperates the mono mix of 'ABC' from the stereo mix. On the version on the new Motown singles collection, this beat can barely be heard."

Now someone has noted, "There is an extra repeat of the lines 'That's how easy love can be! I'm-a gonna teach you how to sing it out' with totally different phrasing that comes in at 2:39."

Pat Downey
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Posted: 21 August 2008 at 5:36am \| IP Logged

Brian, if you passed along the information on Cloud Nine by Gladys Knight by mistake then there must still be a version of Cloud Nine by the Temptations since it was a 1969 hit so could you please pass along the correct time for the Temptations version?

By the time I get all volumes of this Complete Motown Singles series entered in the database, this thread will be way too long so I will start a new thread for each box set in the future.

Edited by Pat Downey on 02 December 2008 at 9:08pm

Brian W.
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Posted: 21 August 2008 at 11:46am \| IP Logged

Pat Downey wrote:

But Temptations' "Cloud Nine" was RELEASED in late 1968, Pat. They go by release dates on these Motown sets, not the date they peaked on the charts. Therefore, "Cloud Nine" is on the 1968 set.

Edited by Brian W. on 21 August 2008 at 11:47am

waldo
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Posted: 22 August 2008 at 4:58am \| IP Logged

Brian W. wrote:

Pat Downey wrote:

1) Jackson 5 "ABC". The database states the 45 length is (2:56) but the new box set has a (3:13) length????

that's definitely not the 45.. this version first appeared on the 1995 - Motown Year By Year - The Sound Of Young America - 1970 as an alternate rarity??

more mistakes!!!!!!!

waldo
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Posted: 22 August 2008 at 5:59am \| IP Logged

Brian W. wrote:

Brian, what CD's have the true ABC 45 ?

Todd Ireland
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Posted: 22 August 2008 at 7:11am \| IP Logged

The database shows Rare Earth's "Born to Wander" on the Complete Motown Singles Vol. 10: 1970 box set with the comment "stereo DJ 45 version". How does this stereo DJ 45 differ from the stereo commercial 45 length that has appeared on some CDs?

eriejwg
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Posted: 22 August 2008 at 8:35am \| IP Logged

Was the commercial 45 for "Born To Wander" mono and the DJ 45 stereo/mono or, just stereo?

Brian W.
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Posted: 22 August 2008 at 6:08pm \| IP Logged

waldo wrote:

Brian, what CD's have the true ABC 45 ?

According to the database, it's on "Hitsville USA Vol. 1," "Kid Rock," and "The Best Of The Seventies: 20th Century Masters - The Millennium Collection."

Brian W.
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Posted: 24 August 2008 at 10:03pm \| IP Logged

You know, looking over the top forty hits in the database that are on the "Complete Motown" sets, I'm surprised to see that, with exception of the Stevie Wonder material, most of these are already available on CD in their mono 45 versions.

They're still great for somebody like me who collects B-sides and loves the unreleased stuff (there are two scheduled-but-unreleased Supremes singles on the sets, for example), but for those who are interested mainly in the top 40 hits, there are literally only a handful of songs that are making their 45 version debut in this series.

The mono Motown singles of the 60s were already very well represented on CD.

Edited by Brian W. on 24 August 2008 at 10:05pm

Pat Downey
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Posted: 31 August 2008 at 1:12pm \| IP Logged

Thanks to Bill, Brian and Jim, the contents of "The Complete Motown Singles" first 10 box set volumes on Hip-O Select are now entered in the database for your viewing pleasure.

Brian W.
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Posted: 24 September 2008 at 3:09pm \| IP Logged

I hope "The Complete Motown Singles" series isn't going to grind to a halt because of the Universal fire. Mastering engineer Marty Wekser has said on BSN that his sources at Universal tell him that thousands of tape masters were destroyed the Universal fire this year. Nearly 100% of the Decca and Coral tape masters from the 1950s were destroyed. He says anything that wasn't previously issued on LP or CD is just gone now.

I guess any little hope I had that Bear Family or someone else might do a boxed set for Bing Crosby's 1950s Decca material has been destroyed. The master tapes no longer exist.

I don't know if any of the Motown tapes were stored there, but they were owned by Universal.

Edited by Brian W. on 24 September 2008 at 3:09pm

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