Top 40 Music on Compact Disc: Version descriptions on retail singles...

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Todd Ireland
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Posted: 28 September 2008 at 12:27pm \| IP Logged

Abagon and I have been working diligently to uncover pertinent commercial single information over the past several months for Top 40 hits from the 1980s. As we venture into the late '80s, I'm starting to notice instances where the 45 labels contain a specific description of the single version, such as "Edit", "Full Force Mix", "Jellybean Remix", etc. From around 1989 forward, these printed description notations became increasingly common on retail singles and Ed and Jim have always been especially good about documenting them on the message board. Does anyone know when record companies started printing version descriptions on the 45 commercial labels? I ask because I may need to go back and review commercial 45s from previous years to document some of these version descriptions for the database.

Hykker
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Posted: 28 September 2008 at 4:13pm \| IP Logged

Not sure if this is what you mean, but my retail copy of "Say You Love Me" by Fleetwood Mac mentions it being an edit.

Yah Shure
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Posted: 28 September 2008 at 6:59pm \| IP Logged

"Say You Love Me" is a great early example on a stock copy. It was also years ahead of the curve. The first I noticed more of what Todd had in mind was on the Warner Bros. 45 labels circa 1990-'91.

Another example is Right Said Fred's "I'm Too Sexy," with '7" MIX' on the A-side, and "SPANISH VERSION" on the flip. "One" by The Bee Gees is marked "(edit)" a la the much earlier Fleetwood Mac 45.

The only problem I have with such designations is their reliability, especially since the labels seemed to have had a bit of a problem over the decades with even simpler concepts, like, oh, "stereo" or timing info. :)

Edited by Yah Shure on 20 November 2008 at 9:51pm

Brian W.
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Posted: 29 September 2008 at 2:21am \| IP Logged

Very interesting question, Paul. I'm gonna guess late-'80s, but I could be wrong, could be earlier than that. I'll speculate they started doing that when they started doing many different remixes of each song and servicing those to radio.

If we set aside singles that differentiated between two different versions of the song on different sides of the single, Jody Watley's "Don't You Want Me" is one that comes to mind. But its flip is the only side that gets a designation (Remix), even though the A-side is also remixed.

The first 45 where I can RECALL seeing a version designation on the commercial label -- that didn't have the same song on the flip side -- is "Like a Prayer" in '89. I think all of Madonna's subsequent 45s contained a version designation after that.

Going through about 1/3 of my roughly 250 45s, that is so far the earliest example I can find, but there are probably others. The singles from the "Thriller" album, for all their drastic edits, contain no version designation on the commercial copy, not even an "original version from the album" designation, though that would later become common. I don't think the "Bad" singles did, either.

Even George Michael's drastic remix/re-recording of "Monkey" contains no version designation on the commercial copy, although the instrumental B-side does say "Bonus Beats."

But if you want to extend this to cassette singles, I believe Janet Jackson's 1987 cassingle for "Pleasure Principle" listed '7" Vocal' on the card sleeve, though I'm not sure about the shell of the cassette. That is the first single I can recall that was a DRASTICALLY different MIX from the album version.

Edited by Brian W. on 29 September 2008 at 2:35am

aaronk
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Posted: 29 September 2008 at 10:28pm \| IP Logged

Dire Straits' "Money For Nothing" has "Long Edit" on the stock 45 label; I believe it's printed near the timing info, if I recall correctly. Are you also talking about version designations listed next to the title, i.e. "Rock Me Amadeus (American Version)" or "Keeping The Faith (Special Mix)"?

abagon
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Posted: 29 September 2008 at 11:10pm \| IP Logged

I checked some 45 records of Warner label in the Top 40.
"Little Lies" as the 3rd single cut from the LP "Tango In The Night" by FLEETWOOD MAC doesn't have the specific description on the record label. (Also "Big Love" and "Seven Wonders" don't have it)
"Everywhere" as the 4th single cut has it under the listed time on it.
I found 2 record numbers between Warner "7-28291" and "7-28143" of the singles by FLEETWOOD MAC. Those songs have the specific description on the record label.

FLEETWOOD MAC - "Little Lies" @Warner7-28291 (-)
MORRIS DAY - "Fishnet"        &nb sp; Warner7-28201 (Edit)
AL B. SURE ! - "Nite And Day" @Warner7-28192 (Single Edit)
FLEETWOOD MAC- "Everywhere"@   Warner7-28143 (LP Version)

ROD STEWART - "Lost In You"     Warner7-27927 (Fade)
VAN HALEN - "Black And Blue"    Warner7-27891 (Fade)

MCT1
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Posted: 30 September 2008 at 9:14pm \| IP Logged

abagon wrote:

VAN HALEN - "Black And Blue" Warner7-27891 (Fade)

I have several singles from Van Halen's albums 5150 (1986) and OU812 (1988), as well as David Lee Roth's solo albums Eat 'Em And Smile (1986) and Skyscraper (1988). None of the singles from the 1986 albums have version designations. All of the singles from the 1988 albums do. This supports abagon's findings that Warner began using these as a matter of standard operating procedure sometime in 1987.

For the record, here's what I have from the 1988 albums.

Van Halen:

"Black And Blue" (7-27891) -- stock copy identifes A-side as "Fade". No version designation on B-side ("A Apolitical Blues"). [*]

"When It's Love" (7-27827) -- stock copy identifes A-side and B-side ("Cabo Wabo") as "LP version"; promo copy identifies the versions of "When It's Love" as "Edit" on one side, "LP version" on the other.

"Finish What Ya Started" (7-27746) -- promo copy identifes the versions of "Finish What Ya Started" on both sides as "Remix".

David Lee Roth:

"Just Like Paradise" (7-28119) -- stock copy identifes A-side and B-side ("The Bottom Line") as "LP version"; promo copy identifies the version of "Just Like Paradise" on both sides as "LP version".

"Stand Up" (7-28108) -- stock copy identifies A-side as "LP version". No version designation on B-side ("Knucklebones"). [**]

"Damn Good" (7-27825) -- promo copy identifes the versions of "Damn Good" on both sides as "Edit".

[*] "A Apolitical Blues" was a bonus track available on the CD version of OU812, and possibly the cassette version, but not on the vinyl LP. That may be why no designation appears. The album credits on Warner 45s from this period typically refer generically to "album" with the vinyl LP catalog number. The album credit for "A Apolitical Blues" specifically says "CD", with the CD and cassette catalog numbers.

[**] There are album credits on the label indicating that "Knucklebones" is from Skyscraper, so it's not clear to me why no designation was used.

Hykker
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Posted: 01 October 2008 at 11:13am \| IP Logged

MCT1 wrote:

David Lee Roth:

"Just Like Paradise" (7-28119) -- stock copy identifes A-side and B-side ("The Bottom Line") as "LP version"; promo copy identifies the version of "Just Like Paradise" on both sides as "LP version".

There may have been 2 promo copies. I'm pretty sure mine has a cold ending on one side and a fade on the other.

MCT1
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Posted: 01 October 2008 at 6:49pm \| IP Logged

Hykker wrote:

MCT1 wrote:

There may have been 2 promo copies. I'm pretty sure mine has a cold ending on one side and a fade on the other.

I double-checked, and my copy definitely does say "LP version" on both sides, with a listed time of 4:03. I didn't play it to confirm but the trail-off markings on each side are identical. The matrix number is 7-28119-A-SR1. The A-side of my stock copy is the same. Both were pressed by Specialty.

Todd Ireland
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Posted: 02 October 2008 at 9:43pm \| IP Logged

Thanks very much for the responses everyone. It looks like this practice of listing version descriptions on 45 record labels began to take hold in the late '80s, though we've uncovered a couple of earlier examples, such as Fleetwood Mac's "Say You Love Me" ("Edited") and Dire Straits' "Money for Nothing" ("Long Edit"), thanks to Hykker and Aaron.

My next question is for Pat... The database currently includes specific version information for tracks appearing on many DJ singles. Should the database also incorporate version descriptions when they're stated on commercial singles as well? I think a good case can be made to note in the database when the 45 record label contains a description like "American Version" or "Special Mix". But what about cases where the 45 label simply states "Edit" or "Fade"? Should these descriptions be included in the database as well when they are printed as such on commercial single releases, or would this info be considered redundant since "length" and "version" comments are already typically used to identify edits and early fades? And what about when the 45 label says "LP version"? Should this be noted in the database too, or would that only create confusion? I'd be interested to hear other forum members' take on this.

Brian W.
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Posted: 02 October 2008 at 10:47pm \| IP Logged

Todd Ireland wrote:

Should the database also incorporate version descriptions when they're stated on commercial singles as well? I think a good case can be made to note in the database when the 45 record label contains a description like "American Version" or "Special Mix". But what about cases where the 45 label simply states "Edit" or "Fade"? Should these descriptions be included in the database as well when they are printed as such on commercial single releases, or would this info be considered redundant since "length" and "version" comments are already typically used to identify edits and early fades? And what about when the 45 label says "LP version"? Should this be noted in the database too, or would that only create confusion? I'd be interested to hear other forum members' take on this.

I would like to see that information incorporated in the database... but I must be honest and say that, if I were Pat, I would not want to go back and enter that info for all the songs that are already in the database.

I would like to see this info included for new songs or perhaps as he runs across older titles.

Todd Ireland
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Posted: 03 October 2008 at 7:13am \| IP Logged

The good news is, I don't think there are all that many commercial 45 titles prior to 1988 that contain version description info printed on the 45 label, so it really shouldn't result in much extra work for Pat. Abagon informed me he was going to review his stock 45s from previous years and report back with a list of singles containing specific version descriptions. Then Pat can make the final determination as to whether he wants to include this info in the database.

AndrewChouffi
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Posted: 03 October 2008 at 7:46am \| IP Logged

Wasn't the first version-designated Warner Communications 45 James Taylor's June 1976 AC entry "Shower The People (Edited)"?

For a minute when I went to buy the 45 after hearing it just once I thought that was the official title of the song...

I remember thinking that was cool because I had been making homemade edits since I was ten on my Teac.

The only earlier editing designation I remember was on the November '74 issue of Skynyrd's "Free Bird" with the LABEL CREDIT 'Edited By: Phil Stanley'.

Anyone have any other examples prior to "Shower The People"?

Andy

EdisonLite
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Posted: 03 October 2008 at 8:33am \| IP Logged

My feeling on all this is that it would be great to have this info in the database but that Pat shouldn't have to re-look at every 45 he owns to do it -- so if people here supply him with the info, that will save him A LOT of time and that he should incorporate it. As far as which info to include or not, I'd definitely include comments like "special mix", "American version", "Edited", but I'd leave the notation out of the database when:

(1) it's wrong (e.g. when it says "edited" but it's really just faded)
(2) it's inconsistent with our notation (e.g. when the 45 says "LP version". "Version" implies there's different mixes or edits, and since this example would not be the case here, it just adds confusion, and I don't think it merits putting the info in the database.)

edtop40
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Posted: 03 October 2008 at 10:33pm \| IP Logged

maybe....if pat let certain members access the site to update info, that will take the burden off pat to keep the site updated......

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Brian W.
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Posted: 03 October 2008 at 11:06pm \| IP Logged

edtop40 wrote:

maybe....if pat let certain members access the site to update info, that will take the burden off pat to keep the site updated......

I have thought of that before. But it would have to be people he completely trusts. It's still his database. I can understand if he was concerned about people who can change the database doing things he didn't approve of.

edtop40
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Posted: 03 October 2008 at 11:45pm \| IP Logged

agreed, brian

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Todd Ireland
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Posted: 04 October 2008 at 9:38am \| IP Logged

EdisonLite wrote:

We certainly wouldn't ask Pat to do this on his own. He already has a dedicated volunteer crack staff here who's willing to do the research for him. :-)

EdisonLite wrote:

As far as which info to include or not, I'd definitely include comments like "special mix", "American version", "Edited", but I'd leave the notation out of the database when:

(1) it's wrong (e.g. when it says "edited" but it's really just faded)
(2) it's inconsistent with our notation (e.g. when the 45 says "LP version". "Version" implies there's different mixes or edits, and since this example would not be the case here, it just adds confusion, and I don't think it merits putting the info in the database.)

I agree with you on both counts, Gordon, though in cases like the one you stated where the record label says "Edit" and is really just an early fade, it could always be explicitly clarified as such in the database.

Pat hasn't weighed in on this discussion yet, but judging by his database comments to date it looks like he's been loosely following the guidelines Gordon has outlined. I've recently noted a couple of late '80s 45s that states "LP version" and "Edit" on the record label and Pat didn't include this info in the database. That's perfectly fine if this is his policy, but I'll still mention these details on the message board for any readers who are interested.

torcan
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Posted: 04 October 2008 at 6:04pm \| IP Logged

Todd Ireland wrote:

I have a Canadian 45 of Charlie Dore's "Pilot of the Airwaves" from 1980 that states "edited version" next to the title, and also lists Time: 3:15 (edit)

I've never seen a US 45 of this title, but that seems to be an early one to actually state it was edited.

Yah Shure
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Posted: 04 October 2008 at 9:56pm \| IP Logged

torcan wrote:

Here's the US promo 45. The "edited version" and "(edit)" notations are the same, although positioned differently.

The wording of the notation "Edited version from the Island album ILPS 9559 WHERE TO NOW" is not crystal clear. One could incorrectly interpret that to mean that the edited version is also found on the album, rather than the correct interpretation that the 45 version is an edit of the version found on the album.

Edited by Yah Shure on 04 October 2008 at 9:58pm

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