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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 19 June 2013 at 10:04pm | IP Logged
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On a somewhat related note, it's my understanding that commercial 45 copies of Herb Alpert's "Rise" were accidentally pressed (or played) at the wrong speed in the U.K. and as a result a much more sped up version ended up becoming a hit there!
As for The Romantics' "What I Like About You", I wonder how many people bought this 45 and then returned it to the store thinking it was defective? No question, this may have negatively impacted sales and would at least partially explain how a song so heavily played at sporting events, weddings, and on radio today achieved such a disappointing #49 Billboard Hot 100 chart peak in 1980.
Out of curiosity, do these super-sped-up 45s play more "normal" at 33 rpm speed?
Edited by Todd Ireland on 19 June 2013 at 10:17pm
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abagon
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| Posted: 20 June 2013 at 8:22am | IP Logged
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80smusicfreak wrote:
abagon wrote:
Thanks for the info, 80smusicfreak!
By the way.
Are all the "PZ" prefix re-issue items in the CBS releases?
--abagon
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This is kind of a tricky question, as first pressings of some CBS albums in the mid '70s did actually start w/ a "P" in the prefix. But if the LP was originally released in 1978 or later (and of course, in the case of the Romantics, it was), then yes, a prefix of "PC" (Columbia), "PE" (Epic), "PR" (Portrait), or "PZ" (CBS Associated) would indicate a re-issue in the CBS catalog. However, during this period, here in the U.S. CBS was also notorious for sticking leftover first pressings of albums (w/ the original prefix) inside re-issue covers, so it's always important to check both to see if the prefixes match up (if that kind of thing matters to you as a collector, that is)... |
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Thank you very much for the detail about the CBS album prefix, good teacher 80smusicfreak! I use the advices as a reference for my LP collecting.
--abagon
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abagon
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| Posted: 20 June 2013 at 8:28am | IP Logged
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Todd Ireland wrote:
| Out of curiosity, do these super-sped-up 45s play more "normal" at 33 rpm speed? |
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I played the 45 at 33 rpm speed. The actual 33 rpm running time is (3:34). It's too slow to listen to it. The voices are... As if Steve Miller sings, duet with Bob Seger!
--abagon
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 20 June 2013 at 7:33pm | IP Logged
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I managed to get in touch with the band, and got a
response from lead singer Wally Palmar: "Wally is not
aware of this unless it was a pirated copy and not the
original pressing.
He has not heard of that issue before."
In the '80s, this song was impossible to find on CD, so
we DJs had to play it off vinyl. I'm pretty sure my copy
was a rerelease on Rock N' Mania, and the speed was just
fine. I knew some CD-only DJs who resorted to the
inferior cover version by Michael Morales; I'm still
convinced that the CD unavailability of the Romantics
version on CD was what led to the Michael Morales version
being a hit.
I'll have to check around town and scoop up any 45 copies
I can find.
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 20 June 2013 at 9:08pm | IP Logged
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abagon wrote:
Todd Ireland wrote:
| Out of curiosity, do these super-sped-up 45s play more "normal" at 33 rpm speed? |
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I played the 45 at 33 rpm speed. The actual 33 rpm running time is (3:34). It's too slow to listen to it. The voices are... As if Steve Miller sings, duet with Bob Seger!
--abagon |
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Thanks for checking, abagon!
crapfromthepast wrote:
| I managed to get in touch with the band, and got a response from lead singer Wally Palmar: "Wally is not aware of [the 45 playing at hyper speed] unless it was a pirated copy and not the original pressing. He has not heard of that issue before." |
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Hmmm, interesting...
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cmmmbase
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| Posted: 21 June 2013 at 12:32pm | IP Logged
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My stock copy runs 2:55 with the deadwax of AA-ZS9-7527-3.
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eric_a
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| Posted: 22 June 2013 at 11:31pm | IP Logged
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Todd Ireland wrote:
On a somewhat related note, it's my
understanding that commercial 45 copies of Herb Alpert's "Rise" were
accidentally pressed (or played) at the wrong speed in the U.K. and as
a result a much more sped up version ended up becoming a hit there!
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I've heard that this was because 12" singles were typically pressed at
45, so when UK DJs got US imports (pressed at 33), they played them
at the wrong speed. Normally, vocals would indicate the wrong speed
but an instrumental cut doesn't give that clue.
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 23 June 2013 at 3:11pm | IP Logged
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Looks like at least a couple folks here do have a commercial 45 pressing of "What I Like About You" that plays at the same speed as on the LP. Thus, I'm inclined to believe the ultra fast 45 pressings were manufacturing errors. But then this raises questions... Just how common are these errant pressings? And how did the quality control division at the manufacturing plant allow them to make it onto retail store shelves?
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 23 June 2013 at 3:46pm | IP Logged
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eric_a wrote:
Todd Ireland wrote:
On a somewhat related note, it's my
understanding that commercial 45 copies of Herb Alpert's "Rise" were
accidentally pressed (or played) at the wrong speed in the U.K. and as
a result a much more sped up version ended up becoming a hit there!
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I've heard that this was because 12" singles were typically pressed at 45, so when UK DJs got US imports (pressed at 33), they played them at the wrong speed. Normally, vocals would indicate the wrong speed but an instrumental cut doesn't give that clue. |
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Thanks, eric_a. I remembered reading something about this in Fred Bronson's The Billboard Book of Number One Hits. I just pulled out my copy for reference and it confirms all the details in your story.
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 23 June 2013 at 4:53pm | IP Logged
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Todd, errant pressings were more common than one might think. Unless the label had just finished mastering the latest Chipmunks release prior to the Romantics miscue, one might assume that a screw-up of this nature would have been pretty inexcusable at CBS. Was it just one batch from one plant that managed to fall between quality control checks? Who knows? Was anyone at CBS even aware at the time that they'd forgotten to disconnect the helium tanks?
Let's say they were aware of the glitch. In that case, who would have been contractually responsible for eating the cost of the mispressings? Was this particular job done through an independent mastering house or was it included in Nemperor's manufacturing & distribution pact with CBS? If the former was the case here, CBS might have been contractually bound to utilize the metal parts they'd been provided by Nemperor, mastering error or not.
Here's another ponderable: if the mastering error did lie with Nemperor, could the label afford to replace the consequential defective pressings? I've seen an example on Private Stock where comical amounts of tape slippage should have been caught by even someone with a tin ear, yet both the mono and stereo sides of the DJ 45 - pressed by Columbia Terre Haute - went out exactly like that, rendering them completely unusable to radio. The stock pressing was correct, and yet Private Stock made neither the effort to re-service a corrected promo 45 nor authorized the shipment of stock copies to replace the defective promos. Unsurprisingly, the record tanked, so it probably wasn't one the label had any intention of working (promotionally) in the first place.
Considering the vast number of records pressed at CBS's plants for both their own records group and their numerous custom clients, it's amazing that many more mistakes didn't fall through the cracks. If the plant employees played the blooper pressings at their holiday parties, there must've been some real lulus! One can only imagine what the mental states of the press operators must've been during those shifts immediately following said parties. :)
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NightAire
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| Posted: 23 June 2013 at 9:36pm | IP Logged
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Re; Herb Alpert's "Rise" at 45 RPM
I just sped up the album version of "Rise" to 65.64% which I believe is equal to 33 RPM going to 45 RPM... and I am STUNNED the DJs didn't think, "boy, that bass player is playing way up at the top of his range... and the xylophone players are playing at top speed... and why are the laughs the laughs of children?"
Run time becomes 4:49, FWIW.
It would have been fun to see the dance floors for this one... :-D
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 27 June 2013 at 6:53pm | IP Logged
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So... for "What I Like About You":
I compared a dub of the pitched-up 45 to the version on
Cosmopolitan Vol. 9 (1994), and the mispressed 45
is...
10.2% faster than the CD version.
That's an insane pitch error; I still can't wrap my head
around how an error could be THIS far off.
No luck finding any copies of the 45 in town...
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jimct
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| Posted: 29 June 2013 at 7:47am | IP Logged
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Ron, my second recent eBay commercial 45 purchase has just come in. Turns
out it is another "10.2% Too Fast Special." I've been trying to locate a stock
45 pressed with the correct speed. You seem to want one of the ones I have.
Find me a correct one, and we'll trade, OK?
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 29 June 2013 at 9:25am | IP Logged
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I'll keep looking!
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TomDiehl1
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| Posted: 01 July 2013 at 5:11pm | IP Logged
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Hykker wrote:
jimct wrote:
Thanks, Steve. Could you please provide
deadwax info for your promo 45?
That way, those of us hoping to locate a stock 45 at the
correct, promo 45
speed can use your 45's deadwax as a possible tipoff,
before buying another
bogus (2:38) stock copy. |
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Sure thing. Hand etched T1 (or I) AC-ZS9-7527-3 (the
final dash almost looks like =).
About 180° away is machine stamped (in tiny type) what
looks like N17y315 preceded by an indecipherable
character.
Weird. Since promos are at more-or-less the correct
speed at least some stampers were OK.
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Finally was able to find this one in my storage locker. My pressing is exactly the same as the first part of your matrix info, except that 180° away is machine stamped the word STERLING, nothing else. the listed and actual time is exactly the same as yours as well.
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 20 August 2013 at 6:57pm | IP Logged
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Nothing new to report on the crazy-fast 45 front...
Instead, I caompared the CD masterings for this one; not as definitive as I'd hoped.
The first version on CD was probably a German CD called Mixed Masters Vol. 4 (1989), which is undoubtedly extremely expensive today. It was part of a six-CD set that featured some true gems, including the 12" versions of "Talking In Your Sleep" (never seen that one anywhere else) and the 12" of the Jacksons' "Shake Your Body (Down To The Ground)". Most, but not all, tracks saw the light of day on the Club Columbia and Club Epic discs here in the U.S. The Mixed Masters discs had very nice volume levels, no noise reduction, and reasonable EQ, but tended to use source tapes that weren't first generation. For "What I Like About You", it wasn't a big deal, since the song would reappear shortly on many other discs. By the way, it ran about 0.2% slower here than most of the discs that followed.
One year later, Epic released What I Like About You (And Other Romantic Hits) (1990). I never got around getting this disc, but I think I have a pretty good idea what the track sounds like here; the cheapie Romantics collection Take Two (2003) is almost certainly a digital clone of this disc. It sounds very nice.
And now it gets a little hazy; it may very well be that all the later discs use the same analog transfer as What I Like About You (And Other Romantic Hits). They all track very closely.
There are some discs that I'm certain use the same analog transfer as Take Two (2003), and (I assume) What I Like About You (And Other Romantic Hits):- Sony's Richard Blade's Flashback Favorites Vol. 3 (1993)
- Time-Life's Guitar Rock Vol. 4 1980-1981 (1994)
- Time-Life's Sounds Of The Eighties Vol. 7 1980 (1995; differently-EQ'd digital clone)
- Time-Life's 2-CD Modern Rock Vol. 5 Dance (1999; differently EQ'd digital clone)
- Rhino's D.I.Y. Vol. 8 Shake It Up Power Pop II (1993; absolute polarity inverted)
- Rhino's Just Can't Get Enough Vol. 3 (1994; digitally identical to D.I.Y.)
- Rhino's Poptopia The '80s (1997; digitally identical to D.I.Y.)
Priority's Eighties Greatest Rock Hits Vol. 4 Party On (1992) clips severely - avoid.
Sedated In The Eighties Vol. 1 (1993) sounds OK; its waveform is a little asymmetric for some reason. The same analog transfer is used on Razor & Tie's 2-CD Totally '80s (1993; cuts off the first 0.06 seconds - avoid!)
Cosmopolitan Vol. 9 (1994) has boosted bass compared to the others. The same analog transfer is used for Big Ear Music's Only In The 80's Vol. 1 (1995).
Sony's Club Epic Vol. 5 (1996) is a little loud, but sounds OK.
Which to choose? There are EQ differences, but not much else. I can vouch firsthand that Take Two (2003) sounds great, and I'd guess that What I Like About You (And Other Romantic Hits) (1990) sounds just as good.
Edited by crapfromthepast on 20 August 2013 at 7:08pm
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 12 October 2013 at 1:32pm | IP Logged
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Found a copy of What I Like About You (And Other
Romantic Hits). Can confirm that Take Two is a
differently-EQ'd digital clone, as I'd guessed in the
previous post.
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jimct
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| Posted: 02 April 2015 at 2:09pm | IP Logged
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I finally acquired a 1980, Nemperor 7527 promo 45 copy. Both sides state
stereo, "AA-AF", "ZS9 7527-3", and a listed time of (2:56) on the label.
Actual contents? Something I wasn't expecting:
One side runs (2:55), with deadwax of "AE-ZS9-7527-3".
The other side runs (2:38), with deadwax of "AF-ZS9-7527-3".
So my promo copy has the best and worst of both worlds! I'm afraid this
might now mean that the (2:38) "Chipmunk Version" qualifies as an
official radio edit! Makes me wonder if either Steve's and Tom's promo
copies are the same, and they just happened to play the correct-speed
side first, or if their copies included the correct speed versions on both
sides. Other than playing them/reading the deadwax info, there's no way
to tell which side of my copy is which speed, going by just the labels.
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Hykker
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| Posted: 02 April 2015 at 2:51pm | IP Logged
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jimct wrote:
Makes me wonder if either Steve's and Tom's promo
copies are the same, and they just happened to play the
correct-speed
side first, or if their copies included the correct speed
versions on both
sides.
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Mine has the correct speed on both sides.
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eric_a
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| Posted: 25 May 2015 at 11:14am | IP Logged
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jimct wrote:
I finally acquired a 1980, Nemperor 7527 promo 45
copy. |
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Jim, does this mean your label specifies a 1980 copyright date? I
noticed that my WLP copy says 1979, although I have no idea
when this was actually released. Like Steve and Tom's copies, mine is
marked -AE on both sides, ZS9 7527, and runs at normal speed.
If I am inferring properly, it sounds like there may have been a second
push in 1980 at radio for this single. Anyone have the story?
Edited by eric_a on 25 May 2015 at 11:16am
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: ROMANTICS - "What I Like About You"
