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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 21 November 2005 at 11:39pm | IP Logged
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I have the Geffen promo CD single from 1989 and it is exactly the same as the 1982 45. So I have no idea how the "alternate mix" came to be floating around out there. And incidentally, my friend didn't get it off Napster, but another internet website.
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edtop40
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| Posted: 03 December 2005 at 4:03pm | IP Logged
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i just listened to the 45 versus the cd version from days of innocence and they are identical...
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davidclark
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| Posted: 12 December 2005 at 7:41pm | IP Logged
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Pat, some comments for you to consider as I delve deep into your database:
Classic Rock Superstars
Sony Music Special Products 26373
You list BIG BROTHER and THE HOLDING COMPANY (see also JANIS JOPLIN) - PIECE OF MY HEART
1968 (S) (4:28) (:15 longer than the LP version)
---> My copy has Me And Bobby McGee (LP version) on there!
SPYDER TURNER
1967 STAND BY ME
---> I have compared the LP version with that of On The Radio Volume Six and I believe them to be the exact same version, vocal take too (how long is the 45 edit?). The On The Radio Volume Six edit removes from :39 to 1:20, 1:43 to 2:00, 2:21 to 3:19 (James Brown, Eddie Kendricks, Melvin Franklin), 3:58 to 4:18 (Sam Cooke) and fades a few seconds early. So it should read "edit of the LP version"
You list DON GARDNER and DEE DEE FORD
1962 I NEED YOUR LOVING
(S) (5:43) Ripete 2392192 Beach Music Anthology Box Set (rerecording)
---> I've a-b'd these and I believe the longer one simply has an extended beginning (as if the master was that long and they made the single from 2:50 onward (with the female voice mixed lower during the opening few seconds of the single) and is a different mix. My version is clipped, but that was easy to fix too!
you list LEE ANDREWS and THE HEARTS
1957 LONG LONELY NIGHTS
(S) (2:52) Garland 012 Remember When (rerecording).
---> I a-b'd mine with the version on The Doo Wop Box and I believe them to be the same.
you list SHANGRI-LAS
1964 LEADER OF THE PACK
(S) (2:49) Era 5025 The Brill Building Sound (missing the line “one day my dad said find someone new”; missing two bars of the instrumental break) ,
---> my copy DOES have the two bars of the instrumental break - it's the mono ones that don't
Edited by davidclark on 12 December 2005 at 7:42pm
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| Posted: 13 December 2005 at 8:55pm | IP Logged
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David you have made some interesting comments and they bring up additional questions that need to be addressed. but in order of your questions:
1)Piece Of My Heart on the "Classic Rock Superstars" cd--as you point out this shoud really be "Me And bobby McGee". Stayed up a little late entering data on that listing I guess.
2) Spyder Turner - Stand By Me. We can argue all night about the vocal take but rather than do that, please note the new comment that I just entered for that song. The mono 45 has some different brass overdubs than the LP. Check out the segment from 1:27 to 1:31 on the 45. The LP has different brass than the 45 so the version on the Varese cd was simply an edit of the LP version in an unsuccessful attempt at recreating the 45.
3) Don Gardner and Dee Dee Ford -- After listening again, the version on Ripete does sound like an extended stereo mix that I don't believe has ever shown up anywhere else but on the Ripete cd. I have written to Curtiss Carpenter to prod him to comment on the source of this extended version and let's hope that he can shed some light on this entry.
4) Lee Andrews and the Hearts "Long Lonely Nights" -- Well here is a good one for you. The cd jacket states this song is stereo and came from a 1966 45 release on Karen Records which would make it a rerecording. But upon listening this evening, I note the song is mono and is the original 1957 Chess release. Moral of the story is not to believe everything you read on the cd jacket.
5) Shangri-Las "Leader Of The Pack" -- Now we need to get to the bottom of this mystery. My box set has the stereo version of "Leader Of The Pack" and the segment from 1:00 to 1:10 (on the mono versions)is definitely missing. To the best of my knowledge it is missing on all stereo versions of this song. Does your box set have this song in stereo with the segment that goes "one day my dad said find someone new?"
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davidclark
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| Posted: 14 December 2005 at 6:16am | IP Logged
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Hi Pat,
Glad to be of some input. Only a couple comments:
2) Spyder Turner. no need to argue, we've agreed! I don't have the 45 (another contender for Eric), but I do believe the On The Radio version is an edit of the LP length... as you point out.
5) Shangri-las. again, we've agreed. I had pointed out that my stereo version on the box has the full instrumental break. It is indeed missing the line "one day my dad said find someone new", as is all stereo versions up until the recent remixes.
cheers!
Edited by davidclark on 14 December 2005 at 6:18am
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MMathews
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| Posted: 14 December 2005 at 8:18pm | IP Logged
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Hi Guys,
Re: Leader Of The Pack:
David, here's the confusion; I also got from your post that monoversions are missing something. I think in Pat's description, he's pointing out that on the stereo mix, part of the music break that immediately precedes the missing line is also edited out.
All mono copies are the complete song.
The one CD that is the exception of course, is "The Red Bird/Blue Cat Story" on Taragon. That has a newer stereo mix that is unedited.
Re: I Need Your Lovin'.
The complete unedited version on the Beach Music Anthology is indeed the hit version. (with the 45 being part 2, the best way to describe it i guess)
I would not be surprised if Curtiss says it was provided by Walter Devenne. Walter had the multitrack and mixed the 45 version for stereo for the CD "Raging Harlem Hit Parade" on Relic. That was released shortly before the unedited mix surfaced on Ripete.
And from me, I'm really glad he gave it someone to release, because I LOVE the entire song. I had never heard the first half of it before that, it's great!
-Mark M
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davidclark
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| Posted: 14 December 2005 at 9:04pm | IP Logged
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One more time, re: Leader Of The Pack
Here's what I hear in the song:
From 1:43 to 1:51 of the old stereo mix are 4 bars of an instrumental Break. The new complete stereo remix from the Taragon CD also has 4 bars (but running from 1:51 to 1:59 there, since the earlier line "one day my dad said find someone new" is present where it is missing from the old stereo mix.
Now, the mono versions that I have (all clocking in at from 2:48 to 2:50) contain only 2 bars of the instrumental break from 1:49 to 1:53, and do contain the line "one day my dad said find someone new". My sources are "Growin' Up Too Fast The Girl Group Anthology" and "Billboard Top Rock'N'Roll Hits 1964".
So, the mono versions are not the complete song. Only the recent remix is. This really surprises me btw.
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 14 December 2005 at 9:55pm | IP Logged
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davidclark wrote:
So, the mono versions are not the complete song. Only the recent remix is. This really surprises me btw. |
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No, judging from Pat's listings, the full-length 2:57 mono version is on the out of print DCC "Best of Tragedy," which I fortunately own. (Thank you, Steve Hoffman, for using the correct tape!)
Edited by Brian W. on 14 December 2005 at 9:56pm
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davidclark
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| Posted: 15 December 2005 at 6:16am | IP Logged
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ahhh. good catch, Brian. It must be one of if not the only mono version that is complete (at least on a US CD). There's so many listings for the song that I missed it! ah well, on to other thoughts....
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davidclark
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| Posted: 07 January 2006 at 12:29pm | IP Logged
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more items for your consideration, Pat:
You list VANITY FARE
1970 HITCHIN' A RIDE
(S) (2:55) Collectables 5614 The Sun The Wind And Other Things (with LP ending but :09 shorter than the LP length; stereo LP mix)
(S) (2:55) Columbia 67380 O.S.T. Now And Then (with LP ending but :09 shorter than the LP length; stereo LP mix)
---> I believe these versions to be a remix (and shorter), as my original stereo vinyl LP has the same mix as the 45 fade version on On The Radio Volume one (which itself would become a stereo 45 mix I suppose)
You indicate HUES CORPORATION
1974 ROCK THE BOAT as LP length and 45 length.
---> Toward the end of the song the "Rock The Boat" vocals finish at 2:52 of the LP version but continue on the 45. This would make it “LP version” and “45 version”.
VILLAGE PEOPLE
1979 Y.M.C.A.
(S) (4:00) Time-Life SOD-19 Sounds Of The Seventies - 1979: Take Two
---> I believe this to be at least an alternate vocal
RICHIE HAVENS
1971 HERE COMES THE SUN
(S) (4:11) Five Star 1001 Live At The Cellar Door (this is the hit version but missing a guitar overdub
---> could you point me to the missing guitar overdub? I can't find it.
and finally, to help me:
what's the diff between the 45 and LP versions for:
PAUL SIMON
1976 50 WAYS TO LEAVE YOUR LOVER
LYNYRD SKYNYRD
1978 WHAT'S YOUR NAME
cheers!
Edited by davidclark on 07 January 2006 at 12:31pm
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sriv94
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| Posted: 07 January 2006 at 12:36pm | IP Logged
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I had asked the same question about "What's Your Name" a couple of months ago. I'll just requote what Paul Esch told me:
Quote:
| The 45 version of "What's Your Name" is a remix of the LP version. The horn section is more pronounced, and, I think, been added to. |
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I'll second the "50 Ways" question--can the 45 be extracted from the LP?
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| Posted: 07 January 2006 at 3:00pm | IP Logged
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The LP version of "50 Ways" has a :05 longer introduction than the 45. You should be able to extract the 45 version by editing the LP version.
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| Posted: 07 January 2006 at 6:36pm | IP Logged
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Now to get back to David's input:
1) I have changed the database to reflect a remix on the cd's you mention and dropped the mono stereo mix differences on Hitchin' a Ride
2) Yep, there is a distinction between the 45 and LP version of Rock The Boat and the new entries have been posted
3)Yes, it appears the 4:00 versions in the database were all alternate vocal takes and they have been entered as such
4)Regarding Richie Havens "Here Comes The Sun" listen to the line from 2:49 to 2:55 "It seems Like Years Since It's Been Clear" on the Meet The Covers cd where you will hear the guitar and then compare to the same line from 2:58 to 3:03 on Live At The Cellar Door.
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sriv94
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| Posted: 07 January 2006 at 7:06pm | IP Logged
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Pat,
One correction you may (or may not) want to make--while looikng at the updated entries for "Y.M.C.A." I saw a CD titled WPLJ Presents Scott and Ted Blast Off 2000. It's actually Scott and Todd. They're the AM drive team there (Scott Shannon also programs and voicetracks a syndicated oldies channel when not working at WPLJ).
And--for anyone who wants to chime in--getting back to "50 Ways," which part of the intro would I need to shave off?
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 08 January 2006 at 11:43am | IP Logged
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You have good ears, David! I was listening to the Sounds Of The Seventies - 1979: Take Two CD not all that long ago and I remember thinking there was something about "Y.M.C.A." that sounded different!
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davidclark
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| Posted: 08 January 2006 at 3:09pm | IP Logged
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well, I gave a close listen to Richie Havens "Here Comes The Sun" and in the mono mix, there is what I believe to be an electric guitar sound (that sounds kinda like an organ) not only during the few seconds Pat mentions but throughout the song (I hear it at about :55 to :58 and it is very clear at 3:20 as well). Good ears Pat! I do believe the mix on the Varese CD is missing the overdub too... Did the single indeed contain that overdub? Maybe it was added after the session in the club? Anyone know?
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MMathews
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| Posted: 09 January 2006 at 7:53pm | IP Logged
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Hi All,
Ah, glad someone mentioned the alternate vocal version, because I haven't seen that mentioned on the entries in Pat's book.
Shortly after the lead singer was replaced (if i recall, by his brother)the new singer re-cut the lead vocal track over the same backing track. This version has persistently turned up on some early cd's.
I don't recall every one, but I'm sure of the 2-cd set "Dancin' The Night Away" on Silver Eagle/Warner SP. There were a few others, but I'd have to go thru them. I guess that above mentioned Time/Life disc is yet another appearance.
And hey, thanks David for pointing out the differences on Rock The Boat, I never noticed the mixing differences.
-MM
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| Posted: 10 January 2006 at 7:09am | IP Logged
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Yes David, the single version of "Here Comes The Sun" does contain that guitar overdub.
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Roscoe
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| Posted: 11 January 2006 at 9:14pm | IP Logged
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The listing in the database for Bob Seger's Tryin' To Life My Life Without You should read "LP Version" instead of "LP length". The 45 contains an edit (the last chorus is omitted).
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 25 February 2006 at 6:09pm | IP Logged
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<I will leave the editing comment up to our mixmasters to determine whether the introduction starts early or late on the "Platinum & Gold" and "Greatest Hits" cd's>
I was upgrading "The Sign" today, and I finally got to the bottom of this. My ears (or mind?) had played tricks on me before and I can now verify that the version on "P&G" and "GH" is missing the first beat of the song; in other words, it comes in on beat 2, where the snare drum hits, and what's been deleted is beat one which is a kick drum followed by a high-hat cymbal. Therefore, the database can be updated to more accurately report that "the intro is clipped" on these 2 CDs (and others.)
Incidentally, the wrong version on these 2 CDs is mastered so much better than the actual promo CD single, that rather than re-EQ'ing the single to attempt to match the EQ & compression on these later releases, I found a way to edit the clipped-intro version and restore the missing parts.
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Topic: updates for database
