Top 40 Music on Compact Disc: michael jackson "wanna be startin"

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edtop40
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Posted: 03 July 2009 at 8:22am \| IP Logged

i know that it's in one of the m.j. threads, but i can't find it so i'm starting a seperate thread...

the cd essential states

1983 - WANNA BE STARTIN' SOMETHIN'
(S) (4:16) Epic/Legacy 94287 The Essential (edit of the LP version in an unsuccesful attempt at recreating the 45 version)

what and where exactly, is this version diffrent than the vinyl 45?....i've listened to them several times, with headphones, side by side, and can't locate the differences.....my ears must be failing me...

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edtop40

mstgator
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Posted: 03 July 2009 at 8:52am \| IP Logged

edtop40 wrote:

The most obvious difference to me is around 3:47. At the part where Michael sings "Sing it to the world...", the version on the 45 is a clean edit, while the version on Essential has a sloppy fade-in on the word "Sing". (This is from the iTunes download, so it's possible the physical CD of Essential differs.)

Roscoe
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Posted: 03 July 2009 at 8:56am \| IP Logged

Here's a quote from Brian W. from an old thread on the Essential CD that explains the difference:

Brian W. wrote:

Yes, the 45 of Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' is actually a different MIX than the album version. Note on the 45 the much louder "OOH" right before he starts into the song, and the much louder spoken "You're a vegetable" in the right ear during the bridge -- it really jumps out at you. Also, the piano during "Mama say mama sa ma ma cu sa" is mixed louder, and there is ECHO on that piano, as well as on Michael's vocal on "I know I am someone, and let the truth unfurl, no one can hurt you now..." that is NOT present on the album version. These are not simple EQ differences.

And you can hear the bad edit point on the version on "Essential" right at "Billie Jean is always talkin'" -- there's the tail end of an instrument... sounds like monkey going, "Ooh ooh ooh"... that is present on the instrumental break at that point on the LP. But that little remnant of it is totally gone in the 45 version.

edtop40
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Posted: 03 July 2009 at 8:59am \| IP Logged

And you can hear the bad edit point on the version on "Essential" right at "Billie Jean is always talkin'" -- there's the tail end of an instrument... sounds like monkey going, "Ooh ooh ooh"... that is present on the instrumental break at that point on the LP. But that little remnant of it is totally gone in the 45 version.

at what point, time wise, is this poor edit??

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edtop40

Brian W.
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Posted: 03 July 2009 at 12:10pm \| IP Logged

edtop40 wrote:

at what point, time wise, is this poor edit??

At 1:11, right on the word "Billie." You don't hear that little "whoop" in the one channel? Not there on the true 45 version, which is on all the "King of Pop" compilations. It's not that it's necessarily a poor edit -- it's the the 45 is a remix, and there's no way to edit out that overlapping horn using the album version.

I just noticed another bad edit at 3:47. The "sing" on "Sing it to the world" is clipped. It's not like that on the 45.

Also, listen to the electronic drum "crash" at 3:43, 3:48, etc: "Mama say mama sa ma ma cu sa [crash]." On the 45 version, there's lots of echo on that drum crash. There's almost none on the "Essential" version.

Scary to think that we, amateurs, did a better job of editing this down than whatever professional responsible for the re-edit did.

Edited by Brian W. on 03 July 2009 at 12:12pm

chendagam
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Posted: 06 July 2009 at 9:38pm \| IP Logged

I still do not understand why Sony didn't just use the original single masters.

Nick2341
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Posted: 07 July 2009 at 12:30am \| IP Logged

chendagam wrote:

I still do not understand why Sony didn't just use the
original single masters.

Laziness. Easier to rip a track from a CD and have some intern edit it down.

Hykker
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Posted: 07 July 2009 at 5:44am \| IP Logged

Nick2341 wrote:

chendagam wrote:

I still do not understand why Sony didn't just use the
original single masters.

Laziness. Easier to rip a track from a CD and have some intern edit it down.

It could have been any number of reasons. Tapes may be mis-filed, cryptically labeled or missing. Maybe no one realized that the single was mixed differently as well as edited...we're talking a 25+ year old song here. Keep in mind that "Thriller" sold many, many more times as many copies as the single...many would consider the album verison the "definitive" one.
How many people would even notice...I for one didn't know the single & album versions were different until I read it here.

chendagam
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Posted: 07 July 2009 at 1:09pm \| IP Logged

I always knew that "wanna be" was shorter on the 45. I was only 10 when it was released and begged my mom to buy it for me. She said "you already have the album" but I had to convince her it was different by showing her the run times. I never noticed it was a different mix until the discussion started here.

I understand that things can go missing but seems like the top selling album of all time would have a better filing system. All the remixes and edits should be together.

Where again can you find the official 45 version on CD of "wanna be"??

Nick2341
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Posted: 07 July 2009 at 1:43pm \| IP Logged

The King Of Pop compilations. It's on all of them.

The Hits Man
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Posted: 07 July 2009 at 10:47pm \| IP Logged

The easiest way to tell the actual 45 version from all
others is where Michael whispers the line "You're a
vegetable". On the 45, it's loud and distinct.

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budaniel
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Posted: 08 July 2009 at 7:21am \| IP Logged

why would anyone want to listen to an edit of one of Michael Jackson's best jams ever??? Every time I hear this song on the radio, it drives me crazy that so much of the song is cut out!!!

edtop40
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Posted: 08 July 2009 at 7:34am \| IP Logged

is there any "king of pop" cd that has better sound quality than others?

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edtop40

Nick2341
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Posted: 08 July 2009 at 8:32am \| IP Logged

edtop40 wrote:

is there any "king of pop" cd that has better sound quality than others?

Nope. They're all the same masters.

Roscoe
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Posted: 08 July 2009 at 9:08am \| IP Logged

budaniel wrote:

why would anyone want to listen to an edit of one of Michael Jackson's best jams ever??? Every time I hear this song on the radio, it drives me crazy that so much of the song is cut out!!!

For some, the longer LP version may be too much of a good thing. Also, the 45 mix is slightly better than the LP mix, IMO, because of little touches like the way the "you're a vegetable" line jumps out.

The best of both worlds may be the 12" version, which basically uses the same mix as the 45 (except for that small difference on the "Billie Jean is always talking" line), but runs even longer.

aaronk
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Posted: 08 July 2009 at 9:46am \| IP Logged

Roscoe wrote:

The best of both worlds may be the 12" version, which basically uses the same mix as the 45 (except for that small difference on the "Billie Jean is always talking" line), but runs even longer.

I'm pretty sure the 12" version is also a unique mix, slightly different than both the 45 and LP mixes. For instance, during the opening chorus, it was noted by Brian that one of the lines ("you're too high to get over") is a different sing. Also, when editing down the 12" to match the 45, they don't sync up exactly.

chendagam
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Posted: 08 July 2009 at 9:21pm \| IP Logged

So it doesn't matter which edition of "king of pop" we buy...UK or Australia? What about the "ultimate collection??"

Edited by chendagam on 08 July 2009 at 9:25pm

Nick2341
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Posted: 08 July 2009 at 10:46pm \| IP Logged

The (proper) single version is only on King Of Pop.

Roscoe
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Posted: 09 July 2009 at 7:12pm \| IP Logged

aaronk wrote:

Roscoe wrote:

The best of both worlds may be the 12" version, which basically uses the same mix as the 45 (except for that small difference on the "Billie Jean is always talking" line), but runs even longer.

I recall that earlier thread and I have relistened to the various versions again. I can't hear any difference in the vocal on that particular line between the LP, 12" and 45 versions. It sounds like "ta high to get over" on all three. I think I might hear a small difference on the very next line ("too low to get under"), though. On the 45, it sounds like this line may start with a very brief, faint "your" (i.e. "your too low to get under"). Is it possible that the vocal difference that you refer to is on this line?

Very nitpicky, to be sure, but I'm trying to recreate the 45 from the best possible sources because I absolutely hate the mastering on the "King Of Pop" import. The best sounding version that is closest to the 45 mix is the "12 Inch Mixes" CD. However, I did discover another mix difference between the 12" and 45: on the lines in question, there is a click percussion effect that is much louder in the mix on the 12" than the 45.

A frustrating situation. If only they hadn't applied so much digital compression to boost the levels on the King Of Pop CD. But virtually all the MJ reissues and comps have used a similar mastering style, with the exception of the Thriller SACD.

It would be interesting to hear the story about how these small differences arose between the 45 and 12", since I would have assumed they were created in the same mixing session. But we'll probably never know.

aaronk
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Posted: 10 July 2009 at 7:14am \| IP Logged

Roscoe wrote:

I think I might hear a small difference on the very next line ("too low to get under"), though. On the 45, it sounds like this line may start with a very brief, faint "your" (i.e. "your too low to get under"). Is it possible that the vocal difference that you refer to is on this line?

Thanks for refreshing my memory. Yes, it's on the line "too low to get under," not the one I mentioned previously. And you are right that there are some differences in the loudness of some of the percussion and other elements, although the differences are very small.

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