Top 40 Music on Compact Disc: iTunes Finds?

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EdisonLite
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Posted: 28 December 2009 at 11:19am \| IP Logged

Interesting, for me there's rarely a time when I can't tell something's from vinyl - especially when listening on headphones. If the software if good at removing obvious clicks, it's usually not 100% perfect at removing the "worn out" sound that many records have, especially the vinyl distortion that appears on loud parts of songs, also sometimes the "s" sibilance problem that occurs on vinyl is hard to fix, and then of course, there's the fade where the signal-to-noise ratio is so much lower that it becomes quite obvious that something's from vinyl. These problems are more noticeable on headphones, but whereas I used to only listen on speakers, these days I listen on headphones half the time (because I have an mp3 player), so it's in that setting that I notice things are from vinyl. And all the mp3s I make have none of the swooshy sound, so that's why I'd go for mp3. I agree, Aaron, that most 30-second samples, especially on amazon, have a low-fi, swooshy sound, but I don't find it to be on what I purchase.

Nick2341
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Posted: 28 December 2009 at 2:12pm \| IP Logged

I noticed iTunes format labeled as MP3, but Apple uses AAC at 256 Kbps
(VBR) for their store format (iTunes Plus) not MP3. It's the Quicktime AAC
encoder set on it's "high" setting. It actually brings down the volume of the
track ever so slightly to minimize and sometimes completely get rid of the
clipping that occurs during re-encoding. It actually sounds good and it's
what I use on my iPod.

However, I agree that I still won't pay for compressed music haha.

eriejwg
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Posted: 28 December 2009 at 2:39pm \| IP Logged

Tane Cain is definitely from vinyl. Lots of noise reduction at the very end (last 5 sec. or so) with that swishy effect at the end.

aaronk
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Posted: 28 December 2009 at 5:11pm \| IP Logged

EdisonLite wrote:

for me there's rarely a time when I can't tell something's from vinyl

I suppose I should modify my original statement. I wouldn't always prefer vinyl over a tape-source mp3. There are several cases where good sounding vinyl copies just aren't available. I suppose I should also give the new iTunes Plus a chance. I don't think I've downloaded anything in that format---just the old 128kbps AAC files. I've also encoded lots of things as 256 and 320, and it doesn't have the "swooshy" sound, per se, but I can still hear artifacts left behind by the encoder in many cases.

Edited by aaronk on 28 December 2009 at 5:12pm

80smusicfreak
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Posted: 28 December 2009 at 5:44pm \| IP Logged

Hmmm, seems my fellow board members haven't been keeping pace w/ some of the latest '80s CD re-issues...

TANE CAIN - "Holdin' On": The song's original 1982 parent album, simply titled "Tane Cain" (which I've owned on cassette for over 20 years now) was legitimately re-issued on CD here in the U.S. this past July/August by the Renaissance label, and therefore, belongs in Pat's book/database. I haven't yet bought this CD myself, but intend to. Renaissance official web site: http://www.cdthen.net. In addition, label founder/owner John W. Edwards sells his product on eBay under the user i.d. "renasanz_cd". I have dealt w/ him directly in the past (both through eBay and outside of eBay), and he is always helpful. He currently has multiple copies of the Tane Cain CD listed on eBay, starting at just $7.00 (also available through Amazon at a higher price). Is that worth it for a CD of great music that was made from a cleaned-up vinyl transfer??? You decide. While Renaissance may not always be able to use original master tapes for its CD re-issues, I prefer to look at the glass as half full; a lot of the '70s & '80s music that Edwards has made available on CD over the years is great stuff that both made & missed the top 40, and wouldn't exist on CD otherwise (and likely never will!)...

Edited by 80smusicfreak on 28 December 2009 at 5:48pm

eriejwg
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Posted: 28 December 2009 at 6:28pm \| IP Logged

Is the Tane Cain album on iTunes courtesy of the Renaissance label?

80smusicfreak
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Posted: 28 December 2009 at 8:09pm \| IP Logged

eriejwg wrote:

Is the Tane Cain album on iTunes courtesy of the Renaissance label?

I can't say w/ 100% certainty, but if you & aaronk both detect some very minor sounds of vinyl on the tracks, then I'd say most likely, yes (based on some past CD re-issues from Renaissance). I'm not aware of the album ever being issued on CD previously, domestic or import...

eriejwg
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Posted: 28 December 2009 at 8:31pm \| IP Logged

What I noticed the most was the over use of noise reduction on the very end of the Tane Cain track on iTunes. Not sure if it's the same way on the Renaissance CD or not.

EdisonLite
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Posted: 28 December 2009 at 8:50pm \| IP Logged

<was legitimately re-issued on CD here in the U.S. this past July/August by the Renaissance label>

Please keep in mind that Renaissance also releases a lot of bootleg & illegitimate CDs. For instance, they sold the Jigsaw anthology without licensing the music properly through Splash Music, the company that owns the material. And when the owner of Splash Music, Chas Peate, contacted John Edwards to remove the CDs from ebay (even sending him a cease and desist letter), John said he would do so but then went on to totally ignore Splash's request and continued to sell the bootleg Jigsaw CDs on both ebay and amazon anyway! Buyers beware - when it comes to anything Renaissance.

Edited by EdisonLite on 28 December 2009 at 8:53pm

EdisonLite
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Posted: 28 December 2009 at 8:52pm \| IP Logged

And btw, keep in mind that the reason so many of the Renaissance CDs are from vinyl is because the label is not licensing them through the proper channels, so they can't actually ask the license owners (master tape owners) to run off master tapes. More often than not, when a Renaissance CD is truly from master tape (at least in the last 5 years) haven't you noticed that the material was already available on CD in some other country, legitimately? And it's easy just to use another CD as a source.

Edited by EdisonLite on 28 December 2009 at 8:54pm

Brian W.
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Posted: 29 December 2009 at 12:14am \| IP Logged

aaronk wrote:

I've also encoded lots of things as 256 and 320, and it doesn't have the "swooshy" sound, per se, but I can still hear artifacts left behind by the encoder in many cases.

Try Foobar's AAC encoder at the 400kb setting. :D

Hykker
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Posted: 29 December 2009 at 7:54am \| IP Logged

EdisonLite wrote:

<was legitimately re-issued on CD here in the U.S. this past July/August by the Renaissance label>

Please keep in mind that Renaissance also releases a lot of bootleg & illegitimate CDs.
.........
John said he would do so but then went on to totally ignore Splash's request and continued to sell the bootleg Jigsaw CDs on both ebay and amazon anyway! Buyers beware - when it comes to anything Renaissance.

I was wondering the same thing. I can see a legitimate CD release of a vinyl dub when the material is really old, or was released on some long-defunct or flash-in-the-pan label where the tapes no longer exist, but a major label release from the 80s? Sounds fishy to me. I also question the legitimacy of a "label" that sells its wares on Ebay.

Getting back to the original subject, I'm a bit confused about Itunes. I've never used them, nor do I have plans to do so anytime soon, but I always thought of them as essentially an on-line "record store" (albeit one that you have to use proprietary bloatware to access) selling legitimate "singles" in the form of digital files authorized by those who own the rights to the tunes. Are they actually a legal Limewire (or equivalent) where anyone can post anything for download?

Paul C
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Posted: 29 December 2009 at 9:03am \| IP Logged

eriejwg wrote:

Is the Tane Cain album on iTunes courtesy of the Renaissance label?

If you click on the album title in iTunes, among the info you're given is a copyright line. For the Tane Cain album it says "(p) 2009 Renaissance". It's either from a tape source or very clean vinyl.

Paul C
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Posted: 29 December 2009 at 9:09am \| IP Logged

PINK LADY - KISS IN THE DARK

The iTunes download is from vinyl, but until the fadeout (where surface noise is clearly audible) you have to listen carefully to notice. My main issue with the iTunes download is that it is mono, while my 45 is definitely stereo. It also has what Pat would describe as a truncated fade (the track abruptly ends before the song fully fades out) and is therefore a second or two shorter than the 45. Copyright line says "(p) 2009 Sire".

Paul C
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Posted: 29 December 2009 at 9:13am \| IP Logged

JIM PHOTOGLO - FOOL IN LOVE WITH YOU

There are at least two differences between my U.S. commercial 45 and the iTunes download from the album of the same name. My 45 starts with a few cymbal taps and a bass note before the first drumbeat, while the download starts with the drumbeat. I haven't determined yet whether they are two different recordings, but there are differences in the way instruments are positioned in the stereo spectrum. Copyright line says "(p) 2009 Sire".

Paul C
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Posted: 29 December 2009 at 9:32am \| IP Logged

EdisonLite wrote:

Greg Guidry - Goin' Down
-this album (Sould Out) came out on an import CD in 2003. No domestic CDs.

I don't have this album, but I believe that Sould Out was a brand new CD when it was released and contained a new recording of "Goin' Down". The original album containing the hit version of "Goin' Down", Over The Line, has Japanese CD versions listed on eBay.

The Sould Out "album" on iTunes borrows the name and cover from the CD but contains all 33 songs Guidry released on his three CDs, including both versions of "Goin' Down", for $4.99. (The 3:42 version is the hit version but is from vinyl.)

The copyright line on iTunes says "(p) 2009 Jazmine". (Jazmine is the name of a European label that issues recordings that have fallen into the public domain there under the 50-year rule. The Greg Guidry recordings clearly do not fall into this category.)

According to this webpage:

http://www.bluedesert.dk/guidry.html

Guidry issued the Over The Line album on CD himself in 2000.

aaronk
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Posted: 29 December 2009 at 11:51am \| IP Logged

Hykker wrote:

Are they actually a legal Limewire (or equivalent) where anyone can post anything for download?

No, they only accept recordings from labels or individuals who can prove they own the master rights and/or copyrights. As we've seen, though, the system can be "scammed."

Paul C
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Posted: 30 December 2009 at 2:11pm \| IP Logged

I've compared the Tane Cain, Pia Zadora, and Greg Guidry iTunes tracks with the 45s, and as is often the case with tracks dubbed from vinyl, they all fade out a couple of seconds or so before the 45s do.

Brian W.
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Posted: 30 December 2009 at 11:56pm \| IP Logged

Paul C wrote:

as is often the case with tracks dubbed from vinyl, they all fade out a couple of seconds or so before the 45s do.

That's usually the case with most pre-digital-era recordings, from vinyl or not.

RichM921
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Posted: 31 December 2009 at 6:35pm \| IP Logged

Paul C wrote:

Well then the iTunes version could be the album version or the re-recording that came out years later. The original album version does not contain the cymbal taps, but it does run a few seconds longer since the 45 does contain an edit. I'm curious to know which version iTunes has.

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