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Todd Ireland
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Sorry, guys. I had a mental lapse on this one... I completely forgot that a couple years ago I was able to edit the song as it appears on the Train Kept a Rollin' various artist 2-CD set to match the 45, just like Aaron did. As Aaron stated earlier in the thread, the correct 45 mix is on that disc set, but edited incorrectly. I seem to recall the database had it mistakenly listed as being the 45 version at one time, but I could be wrong.
OK, I can rest easy again over selling that first pressing of the Kansas Best of CD! ;-)
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edtop40
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aaron.....you had made the proper edit for me years ago......to my ears the cd edit you made sounds like the vinyl 45 version to my ears....can you please just confirm this....also.....what are the one or two obvious points of the remix versus lp version that you'll know if you have the correct version....also pat can you add the 45 run time data to the db....
Edited by edtop40 on 02 April 2010 at 9:36am
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 02 April 2010 at 9:44am | IP Logged
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Todd Ireland wrote:
| I had a mental lapse on this one... I completely forgot |
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Hey, I come across old posts here ALL THE TIME that I don't even remember writing. I'll say, "Hmm, I didn't know that," then look at who posted it, and it was ME!
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edtop40
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i know what your talking about....it's called old age!!!
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edtop40
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okay...upon further review.....the way you can tell the remix from the non-remix is the vinyl 45 has screeching guitars at the 0:30 and 0:33 point of the song.....the version that aaron re-created is the proper remixed 45 version.....i have another cd which doesn't have the screeching guitars that i used as my point of reference....
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Pat Downey
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Mike Burke sent me an email last week suggesting that the correct 45 version of Carry On Wayward Son appears on a 2009 cd release titled OCC Rocks. Sure enough when I ordered this cd it does appear to have the correct 45 version with the screaming guitars at :30 and :33.
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aaronk
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Nice find!
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crapfromthepast
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Usually I don't post for findings strictly related to sound quality, but this is an exception.
Of the handful of CDs I have the song on, one that towers above the others in sound quality is Sandstone's Reelin' In The Years Vol. 5 (1991). Very nice dynamic range, realistic soundstage, good EQ. (Mastered by Steve Hoffman, and it sounds like he got great source tapes.)
Way, way below the Sandstone disc are two Time-Life discs, Sounds Of The Seventies - AM Heavy Hits (1994) and Guitar Rock - The Late '70s Take Two (1995). Both sound very similar, and both have a messed-up soundstage and some awful left/right phasing effects. It's almost as if this song were (E) - electronically reprocessed for stereo. It's really unlistenable on these two discs - push the "mono" button and listen to the warbly mess.
Even worse, if that's somehow possible, is the first pressing of The Best Of Kansas, (CBS Associated ZK 39283), which is drenched in reverb. I can't tell if it's remixed from scratch or just reverbed to death. Ugh.
The edited version on Sony's Rock: The Train Kept A Rollin' sounds very nice, on par with the Reelin' disc. It seems to be an edited version of that nice, clean mix. A question - is this the right mix and the wrong edit of the 45, or is this the wrong mix of the true 45?
Edited by crapfromthepast on 03 October 2010 at 7:27pm
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sriv94
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crapfromthepast wrote:
| A question - is this the right mix and the wrong edit of the 45, or is this the wrong mix of the true 45? |
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The edit is wrong (although I believe the correct edit can be extracted from that track).
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The Hits Man
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What I always understood is that the original
vinyl LP version of "Carry On Wayward Son" will match
the 45.
However, and if i'm not mistaken, the version that shows up
on all of the CDs were remixed. That is why the 45 version
cannot be created from any CD with the LP version.
I took the easy way out and simply made a nice clean dub of
the 45.
Edited by The Hits Man on 04 October 2010 at 3:53am
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Paul Haney
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Pat Downey wrote:
| Mike Burke sent me an email last week suggesting that the correct 45 version of Carry On Wayward Son appears on a 2009 cd release titled OCC Rocks. Sure enough when I ordered this cd it does appear to have the correct 45 version with the screaming guitars at :30 and :33. |
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I just got this one from iTunes. It is the correct 45 version.
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aaronk
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It's probably good to revisit this thread, because it's not very clear when you go back and read it.
The 45 version of "Carry On..." is an edit of the LP version. It is not remixed. Initially, I thought the 45 was remixed, but it turns out the CD version I was using as my editing source ("Best Of") was remixed. So, the LP and 45 mixes are the same; it's just that the 45 is edited. Also, from what I can tell, only the original pressing of "Best Of" contains the remixed version. You could use any of the other CDs to create the 45 edit.
Ron, to answer you question, yes, the Train Kept A Rollin' CD contains the correct mix (the LP/45 mix), but they made an editing mistake and faded too late, as indicated earlier in the thread.
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The Hits Man
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Thank Aaron for confirming what I had not only found out on
my own a few years ago, but have always read.
I initially did the same thing you did, recreate the edit
from remixed CDs. When I read that the CDs were remixed,
instead of editing the vinyl LP version, I just got a very
clean 45 to ensure that I got the correct mix.
Sometimes it's not possible to find the 45, or one may not
have it, so that's when it's good to know these things.
Usually, the commercial 45 will tell the truth. I don't
always trust the 45 versions on iTunes that come from Sony.
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Jody Thornton
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aaronk wrote:
It's probably good to revisit this thread, because it's not very clear when you go back and read it.
The 45 version of "Carry On..." is an edit of the LP version. It is not remixed. Initially, I thought the 45 was remixed, but it turns out the CD version I was using as my editing source ("Best Of") was remixed. So, the LP and 45 mixes are the same; it's just that the 45 is edited. Also, from what I can tell, only the original pressing of "Best Of" contains the remixed version. You could use any of the other CDs to create the 45 edit.
Ron, to answer you question, yes, the Train Kept A Rollin' CD contains the correct mix (the LP/45 mix), but they made an editing mistake and faded too late, as indicated earlier in the thread. |
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So what are the actual edit points? I only ever heard the LP vesrion on AOR around here. I know three AM Top 40s in this area that also stuck to the LP versions.
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eriejwg
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Going back and reviewing the readily available 45
version on OCC Rocks, it's my opinion that the
whole album (at least digitally through Rhapsody, iTunes
etc) is way over compressed.
Luckily, since the 45 version is available on Train
Kept A Rollin, and all you need to do is the 6
second edit at 1:30 and fade earlier (thanks to Aaron's
guide), it sounds much better that on the OCC cd.
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KentT
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A note: The original LP version and the original 45
version and the remastered Best Of Kansas are original
mixes. The Best Of Kansas was remixed on the DBX Digital
system in Nashville, Tennessee. The current remastered
CD of Best Of Kansas reverted to original mixes, freshly
transferred from the original mixdown tapes.
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crapfromthepast
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Five years later, I'm revisiting "Carry On Wayward Son".
I still stand by my recommendation that Reelin' In The Years Vol. 5 (1991) sounds great. Nice EQ, nice dynamic range, and a little bit of pleasing hiss on the fade. The same analog transfer is used for Realm's 3-CD Greatest Hits Of The '70s Vol. 1 (2001; absolute polarity inverted, which is insignificant) My hunch is that both of these are based on the mastering for the fixed (non-reverb-remixed) Best Of. (I'll be happy to check if someone could send me the Best Of version.)
The version on Sony's 2-CD Rock Train Kept A Rollin' (1999) sounds great, also with nice EQ, and nice dynamic range. There's no hiss on the fade because this edit was recreated digitally from the LP version. It's close to the 45 edit, and can easily be edited down to form the true 45 edit. Using this disc as the starting point, here are editing instructions to recreate the true 45:
Segment 1
Extends from 0:00.0 to 1:30.0 of 45 edit and version on Train
Ends on a snare/crash cymbal
Remove the 12 beats from 1:30.0 to 1:35.7 of the version on Train
Segment 2
Extends from 1:30.0 to 3:27.7 of 45 edit
Extends from 1:35.7 to 3:33.4 of version on Train
Fade
Extends from 3:14.9 to 3:27.7 of 45 edit
Extends from 3:20.6 to 3:33.4 of version on Train
Edited by crapfromthepast on 26 October 2015 at 11:16am
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ItsLennerd
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Bumping an old forum years later to bring this to your
guys' attention. I've noticed for years Clear
Channel/iHeartMedia affiliated radio station seem to use a
custom edit of this song that's based on the single
version. It's has the same edits but doesn't fade, but
instead edits out the first guitar solo and jumps straight
to the second guitar solo during the ending part of the
song.
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Bill Cahill
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I'll plead guilty to making the original version of that edit for CC/iHeart. I'd get complaints about the single version, as the fade out sounded wrong to folks who grew up listening to FM Rock.
It's mostly the single edits until the end, where the cold ending was restored (although that's shorter too). Complaints stopped. Same thing was done for single versions of Night Moves by Bob
Seger and Miracles by Jefferson Starship. The standard at the time was 256 MP2. A few years ago most of my edits were redone by an excellent editor who re-created them lossless for iHeart. Some
edits that I made were made under protest, as I didn't think the 3:20 version of Nights in White Satin should EVER be played again. But there was some regional VP that wanted those, but he
wasn't around very long. The funniest song in the library was American Pie by Don McLean, where there was a note on the file that said "Only Long version available, to request an edit contact
CEO Randy Michaels and explain WHY". That NEVER happened!
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ItsLennerd
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That's an insane story behind that custom edit. I like
the edit that you made for this song as it's based on the
single edit as well as being largely faithful to the LP
version.
I only knew about that version cause one rock station in
particular that used to be here in St. Louis and also
KLOU 103.3 plays that version regularly. Both of them are
CC/iHeartMedia affiliated stations.
I also didn't know that there were custom edits done for
Miracles and Night Moves. But hey, I guess this is why
this site exists. To dig up new facts about some of our
favorite songs.
I also wondered why DJ's were so reluctant on playing an
edited version of American Pie by Don McLean, especially
the aforementioned KLOU since they're seemingly
conservative for the most part when it comes to not
playing long songs. I guess it would be right back to
square one with complaints from listeners. :)
Edited by ItsLennerd on 16 June 2023 at 10:16am
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: "Carry On Wayward Son" -- Kansas
