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sriv94
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| Posted: 02 November 2023 at 7:40pm | IP Logged
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Sorry to bump this one again, but something may be amiss. In my file of the 45, the edit at approximately
(2:30) has a little organ bleedover from the LP version. But the 45 version on AnotherProf's YouTube page
has no organ bleedover--it's a straight edit from guitar to guitar. And a playing of another 45 on YouTube
also doesn't have the organ.
So either I did a lousy job of trying to edit the 45, or I grabbed the wrong file from somewhere. Can
someone double check their 45?
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 02 November 2023 at 8:29pm | IP Logged
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Great catch, Doug!
I did my 45 recreation using Sony's 2-CD Rock The Train Kept A Rollin' (1999) as the source. To my ears, it sounded like Sony attempted to recreate the 45 but missed one edit at 1:30. Thanks to your keen ears, we now see that they also botched the edit at 2:30 in the 45 (about 2:35 on Rock).
Too bad, because the sound quality on Rock was stellar.
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sriv94
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| Posted: 02 November 2023 at 8:47pm | IP Logged
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While we’re at it, do the three CDs that have the 45 version actually have
the 45 version, or is there organ bleedover there too?
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davidclark
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| Posted: 03 November 2023 at 9:58pm | IP Logged
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Doug, glad you DID bump this, as my version too has that organ at 2:30, so it
is an incorrect edit. I found the correct bit later in the LP version, and I suspect
my incorrect version also took the guitar solo instrumental bit that preceded
the incorrect edit from the wrong point in the song (i detected a different drum
roll at one point).
My version, I believe, unless I have it mis-sourced, comes from a series of CDs
a group of us did a while back called "Rare 45s on CD".
So, we'll need someone to provide a proper edit or create one, using one of
those good sources!
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sriv94
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| Posted: 04 November 2023 at 1:01pm | IP Logged
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davidclark wrote:
So, we'll need someone to provide a proper edit or create one, using one of those good
sources!
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I made an attempt at it. I've given it to a special pair of ears to evaluate. If acceptable, he'll share
with the class.
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sriv94
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| Posted: 05 November 2023 at 4:35pm | IP Logged
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Got fooled by one editing error at the very end, so the file I had made was not kosher. I've sent
my revised file to said special pair of ears, and he'll post the findings.
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 05 November 2023 at 9:00pm | IP Logged
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I'm honored that Doug lumps me into the "special ears" category! :)
I have a few things to attend to for the next few days. Once I clear off my desk, I'll pick apart Doug's file and post my findings here on the board.
Stay tuned.
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 06 November 2023 at 3:50pm | IP Logged
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I can see how someone at Sony goofed this up. The edits work great, but they're not in places you'd expect.
Doug did a terrific job reverse-engineering this track; this is not a simple editing job. I myself would have missed the last edit, which falls inside the fade.
Doug worked his magic from left-to-right in the file, and I'll post his instructions below. They should be equivalent to what I have here. We're editing the LP version using the timings from Reelin' In The Years Vol. 5 (it was pointless to count beats for this song):
Segment 1
Extends from 0:00 to 0:27.9 of the LP version and the 45 edit.
Delete 0:27.9 to 0:54.4 of the LP version.
Segment 2
Extends from 0:54.4 to 1:56.9 of the LP version.
Extends from 0:27.9 to 1:30.4 of the 45 edit.
Delete 1:56.9 to 2:02.6 of the LP version.
Segment 3
Extends from 2:02.6 to 2:55.1 of the LP version.
Extends from 1:30.4 to 2:22.9 of the 45 edit.
Delete 2:55.1 to 3:17.6 of the LP version.
Segment 4
Extends from 3:17.6 to 3:37.4 of the LP version.
Extensd from 2:22.9 to 2:42.8 of the 45 edit.
Delete 3:37.4 to 3:43.1 of the LP version.
Segment 5
Extends from 3:43.1 to 4:22.3 of the LP version.
Extends from 2:42.8 to 3:21.9 of the 45 edit.
Delete 4:22.3 to 4:50.7 of the LP version.
Segment 6
Extends from 4:50.7 to 4:56.6 of the LP version.
Extends from 3:21.9 to 3:27.8 of the 45 edit.
Fade
Extends from about 4:18 to 4:28.1 of the LP version.
Extends from about 3:18 to 3:27.8 of the 45 edit.
Note that the last edit is inside the fade.
Your mixdown should run 3:27.8, with edits at 0:27.9, 1:30.4, 2:22.9, 2:42.8, and 3:21.9, and a 10-second fade from about 3:18 to 3:27.8.
Here are Doug's instructions, which should be completely equivalent to the above, but working left-to-right in the file. Times given are from what you'll have left:
Edit 1: 0:27.934 to 0:54.404
Edit 2: 1:30.512 to 1:36.212
Edit 3: 2:22.999 to 2:45.479
Edit 4: 2:42:857 to 2:48.557
Edit 5: 3:21.891 to 3:50.301
Edit 6: Cut out everything from 3:27.797 onward
Start fade somewhere around (3:18)
Happy editing!
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sriv94
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| Posted: 07 November 2023 at 8:19am | IP Logged
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Thank you, Ron. I humbly accept the compliment.
Would still like to know the answer to the query I posted earlier:
sriv94 wrote:
While we’re at it, do the three CDs that have the 45 version actually have the 45 version, or is there
organ bleedover there too? |
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 07 November 2023 at 11:04am | IP Logged
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Of the 69 CDs in the database that include the song, here are the four that have the 45 version:
Rolling Stone Presents The Greatest Hits Of Classic Rock (Box Set) - Compass Productions 46198 (released 2008) - produced by Rhino Custom Products
OCC Rocks - OCC Records 759114 (released 2009)
Classic Arena Rock - Compass Productions 52385 (released 2010) - produced by Sony Music Entertainment
Rolling Stone - Arena Rock - Mood Media Entertainment 58706 (released 2012) - produced by Sony Music Entertainment
If any of you are willing to buy one of these and post the results, the 2008 set might be worth it. That seems to be the first instance of the 45 version on CD.
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 07 November 2023 at 5:28pm | IP Logged
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OCC Rocks is on Qobuz, so you could stream it
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 07 November 2023 at 6:45pm | IP Logged
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Thanks to John, I'm sorry to report that OCC Rocks doesn't sound very good.
It's mastered way too loud, with a really muffled EQ that makes everything in the mix sound compressed and boxy. Perhaps the actual 45 master tape sounds like this, which may be why it wasn't issued on CD until 2008? Regardless, it's a very stark contrast with the wide-open sound of Reelin' In The Years Vol. 5.
In addition, the left and right channels of OCC Rocks are out of synch by one sample. (Not so on Reelin'.)
Plus, the tail of the fade on OCC Rocks ends two beats earlier than the homemade edit.
I'm sticking with the homemade edit for my library.
Edited by crapfromthepast on 07 November 2023 at 6:47pm
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davidclark
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| Posted: 07 November 2023 at 7:30pm | IP Logged
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I listened to the OOC Rocks version as well, and also don't like it for the
reasons stated. The 45 is on AnotherProf's YouTube and does not sound like
that. I'll also stick with the recent homemade edit.
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sriv94
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| Posted: 08 November 2023 at 1:39pm | IP Logged
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Although to answer my own question, they at least got the edit right without the organ bleedover.
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 09 November 2023 at 9:54am | IP Logged
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I think the reason I initially turned to OCC Rocks years
ago was for the Kansas 45 version and the Blue Oyster Cult
45 version. This was a year after I had discovered this
forum and hadn't really learned how to create 45 versions
very well. So, I took what I could find on CD already.
Blue Oyster Cult is also brickwalled.
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: "Carry On Wayward Son" -- Kansas
