Top 40 Music on Compact Disc: Justin Bieber has NINE top 40 hits?

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Topic: Justin Bieber has NINE top 40 hits?

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aaronk
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Posted: 22 September 2010 at 10:49am \| IP Logged

I noticed something interesting when looking at the database today. Justin Bieber has been known for less than a year, yet he has nine top 40 hits. Say what?

Does this happen very often, now that we are in the digital "singles" age? I'm sure the record company was not working all 9 of those songs as singles, but because people can now pick and choose which songs they want to download rather than buying the whole album, there are probably many songs that make the top 40 chart without actually being what most of us would consider a "single."

Paul Haney
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Posted: 22 September 2010 at 12:08pm \| IP Logged

Welcome to the world of digital downloads:)

Yep, it happens more and more these days. If you think Bieber has a lot, take a look at the Glee Cast...and that's just their Top 40 hits (they already have over 60 Hot 100 hits). With a new season underway, it won't be long before they have the most Hot 100 hits of any artist in history!

Jody Thornton
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Posted: 22 September 2010 at 12:16pm \| IP Logged

Yeah, but will there be a comprehensive way to adjust the relative scale of success so that we can compare how say, The Glee Cast compares to the success of Elvis or the Beatles? Because we can't be comparing apples and apples, are we?

Let's suppose Elvis has 60 singles over his career based on 45-rpm sales. How will we compare the 100 download singles from Glee? You can't really expect me to believe that the show cast trumps Elvis?

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aaronk
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Posted: 22 September 2010 at 12:37pm \| IP Logged

Yeah, that's pretty much why I was bringing it up. There's really no way to do an apples to apples comparison, because up until the '90s (or whenever it was) album cuts weren't counted on the Hot 100. Therefore, even though Elvis sold millions of albums, none of those album cuts were counted as "singles." Now, every track that an artist releases is considered a single in the digital world.

aaronk
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Posted: 22 September 2010 at 12:41pm \| IP Logged

From Wikipedia: As of September 2010, the cast is second behind The Beatles for most chart appearances by a group act in the Billboard Hot 100's history, and seventh overall among all artists, with sixty-four appearances.

Paul Haney
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Posted: 22 September 2010 at 1:13pm \| IP Logged

aaronk wrote:

With five more set to chart next week (week ending 10/9).

Paul C
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Posted: 22 September 2010 at 1:33pm \| IP Logged

A couple of years ago, record labels started to experiment with the idea of releasing digitally, prior to the release of an album, a number of tracks from the upcoming album, with the release of each track spaced a week or two apart. Some of these tracks are then promoted to radio months later but others never are.

I believe the first major release with which this was done was the Jonas Brothers' A Little Bit Longer. In addition to the legitimate radio hit "Burnin' Up", the tracks "Pushin Me Away", "Tonight", and "A Little Bit Longer" were all digitally released prior to the album. The latter three made the Top 40 for one week each based solely on download sales.

The same practice has been employed with releases by Taylor Swift, Kanye West, Eminem, and both of the non-full-length albums by Justin Bieber.

It seems to be happening less often lately. It was not done with the Jonas Brothers or Eminem's latest albums and there are apparently no plans to try it again with the upcoming new Taylor Swift album.

It was done with Katy Perry's new album, when the tracks "E.I", "Circle The Drain", and "Not Like The Movies" were all digitally released prior to the album. All made the Hot 100 but not the Top 40.

As for all the Glee tracks that have been littering the Hot 100, almost all of them have spent only one week on the chart. I read recently in Billboard that the 64 tracks that have made the Hot 100 have collectively sold less than a million units.

Edited by Paul C on 22 September 2010 at 1:36pm

Jody Thornton
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Posted: 22 September 2010 at 1:39pm \| IP Logged

So does that mean we are accepting then and now as apples and apples?

When did Billboard convert to airplay only instead of singles sales (1995, 1998)? Does the chart comprise of airplay still, or is that becoming less relevant?

I would just imagine that during some crossover periods (say 1989), when Billboard would still have strictly been sales, that it would be a questionable guage of a song's chart success. For some reason, I'm remembering a song such as Grayson Hugh's "Talk It Over" from the fall of that year. I can't imagine that it would have sold that many vinyl singles (and likely cassette single sales fared worse). So if it wasn't for airplay, how did this song ever make the top 40?

At that time, I remember most people buying cassette albums, so that would not have counted. So are we saying that even then, the pop singles chart would not have given any relevant snapshot as to what current music trends were?

As I remember, I was one of the single-digit percentages buying any vinyl at that time.

Edited by Jody Thornton on 22 September 2010 at 1:41pm

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Paul Haney
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Posted: 22 September 2010 at 2:39pm \| IP Logged

Jody Thornton wrote:

Not sure I follow you. The Hot 100 has always been a combination of sales and airplay, although the formula has varied over the years. Ever since digital sales starting taking off, they have become more of a factor. However, airplay is still a force (on-line streaming is also now factored in). For example, this week Rihanna's new single outsold Bruno Mars, but Bruno Mars has a bigger airplay margin, so he's #1.

As for "Talk It Over" by Grayson Hugh, it peaked at #19 on the Hot 100 (#15 Sales and #24 Airplay), so his sales were the bigger factor. I think cassette singles sold better than most people remember.

budaniel
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Posted: 22 September 2010 at 2:41pm \| IP Logged

also look at the soundtracks to High School Musical. Their songs dominated the charts for a while...even though they never got any airplay.

I think there have been HUGE problems in the accuracy of billboard charts since the 90s. Just look at the top 10 of each week--it is dominated by hip hop and rap artists...none of the radio stations in NY were playing these songs. We were bombarded by Nirvana, Stone Temple Pilots, Pearl Jam, etc. However, hip hop labels were smartly still releasing domestic CD singles at that time while many other pop and rock artists were not. Everything was an 'album' track instead of a 'single.'

aaronk
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Posted: 22 September 2010 at 3:29pm \| IP Logged

budaniel wrote:

I think there have been HUGE problems in the accuracy of billboard charts since the 90s.

Do you mean that the Hot 100 chart doesn't accurately reflect what is popular? Granted, for a time, when record companies stopped releasing singles, there were definitely many songs that weren't eligible for the Hot 100. They have fixed that problem, though. Both airplay and sales count toward the chart positions, as do songs that are not available as a "single."

Sure, there might be a number of songs that make the Hot 100 and never get any airplay at all. But that doesn't mean they aren't popular. It just means that radio has elected not to play them. CHR is as close as it gets, but even those stations have a specific demo they are targeting and a certain sound they are going for. Songs from the Glee TV show aren't going to make CHR playlists, nor will High School Musical songs. That still doesn't mean Glee and HSM isn't popular.

My point of bringing this up was not to debate the accuracy of Hot 100. I was just surprised at how many songs are hitting the top 40 that 1) are not really being worked as a "single" by the record company, and 2) are receiving no airplay.

budaniel
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Posted: 22 September 2010 at 7:28pm \| IP Logged

I believe the Hot 100 did not properly reflect what was really the overall most popular music of the era before they adjusted the way they were tallying the charts--be it sales OR radio play. For instance, if I look at the top 10 charts for every week of, say, the 80s, almost every song on those charts received tons of radio play--not to mention, during that era, I worked in a record store, and there was a blatant correlation between what songs were played on the radio and what songs sold the most in the 45 rpm section.

In the 90s, there is a noticeable stretch of years in which the songs that got all the heavy rotation on radio are not even present in the Top 10 charts. That's quite significant considering the hot 100 charts are meant to be historical records of what music truly is 'hot' at any given time. It's even reflected in the responses when people post questions here about which are the 'hit' versions of certain songs from the 90s. Very often, no one really has any idea which is the hit version because they never heard the song on the radio.

Clearly, Billboard finally recognized that the way they were doing things was NOT reflective of the reality, because they DID alter the way they tallied their charts--way too late to make up for all the years that were slightly skewed. It's almost like history was being altered as it was being written. Of course, that's all my opinion based on my experience and observations. I don't know what everyone else thinks.

aaronk
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Posted: 22 September 2010 at 10:49pm \| IP Logged

Without question, there was a major flaw in the Hot 100 during a big stretch of the '90s. That's why I stopped paying attention to Billboard, for the most part, and just used R&R as a reference. I'm just curious to know if you think that the chart still today does not reflect what is popular, given that we're seeing 60+ Hot 100 entries from Glee and 9 top 40 entries from Justin Bieber, all within the last year or so.

Hykker
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Posted: 23 September 2010 at 5:20am \| IP Logged

Paul Haney wrote:

However, airplay is still a force (on-line streaming is also now factored in).

I think cassette singles sold better than most people remember.

Curiously, what "counts" as play in online streaming? Is it restricted to "legitimate" streams (however you may define that), or does it include every college kid with a Shoutcast account?

I always wondered what they were thinking when the labels introduced cassette singles. Granted, vinyl was all but dead but why were CD singles so few and far between? I'm sure the labels' rationale was that the quality (both audio & mechanical) was so bad on cassette singles and they were so inconvenient that customers would have to eventually get the album anyway thereby generating 2 sales.

Paul Haney
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Posted: 23 September 2010 at 5:37am \| IP Logged

When Billboard first started to factor in streaming back in 2007, they started with AOL and Yahoo Music. I believe they've added a few more since that time. It's my understanding that the current Hot 100 forumla is 55% airplay, 40% sales and 5% streaming. The sales are, of course, mostly digital downloads...but there are still CD singles being sold in the stores. In fact, there have been quite a few CD singles released in the past few months (mostly as one-store exclusives).

As for cassette singles, they did sell millions of them, so it wasn't exactly a bad idea at the time.

Edited by Paul Haney on 23 September 2010 at 5:38am

budaniel
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Posted: 23 September 2010 at 6:56am \| IP Logged

i think the digital download situation has essentially made it possible for every track on an album to become a hot 100 hit rather than letting the album just chart on the album charts. If a string of songs from ONE album hits the top 100 for ONE week, that's because, in essence, eveyone bought the ALBUM in pieces. That means pretty much ever track on every successful artist's album has the opportunity to hit the singles charts for one week regardless of overall mainstream exposure and popularity, which makes NO sense.

And consider this, most of these albums have two, maybe three songs at most that actually get airplay on radio and video channels and become true 'hit' singles. Meanwhile, in the 80s, artist like Madonna, Springsteen and MJ had up to 6 or 7 songs from one album hit the top 10 on their own merit as chart climbers--not instant download 'overnight' successes.

EdisonLite
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Posted: 23 September 2010 at 8:51am \| IP Logged

aaronk wrote:

I've always thought that these "Glee cast" singles don't contain the same singers on every recording. I know many have different lead singers, but are the same actors & actresses all on every Glee cast single? If not, which is what I'm guessing, then I find it odd that they would be called the "group act" in 2nd place, when it's a variety of singers on each single. Seems odd to put them in 2nd place (above Rolling Stones, Beach Boys, Supremes)if it's a different set of singers on most "singles".

EdisonLite
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Posted: 23 September 2010 at 9:03am \| IP Logged

As for Billboard, I don't think they've had a handle on the Hot 100 since the mid '90s, and they still don't. I complained to Geoff Mayfield, editor of the Billboard Charts, for years, telling him that non-commercial singles like "Don't Speak", "Lovefool", "Tearin' Up My Heart", should be included on the Hot 100. He agreed but it took him years to get the Hot 100 to include non-commercial singles. So there are many years of Billboard charts that are quite inaccurate.

Then began the period where Billboard expanded the Hot 100 to include the rap stations, the hip hop stations, the country stations, and the AC stations, and not just the mainstream, pop, & CHR stations that used to comprise the Hot 100 (and R&R's Mainstream chart.) This caused 2 problems. Though the AC format seemed to have fairly little impact on the Hot 100, the country stations inclusion meant the Hot 100 every week had many country songs generally charting between #25 and #100, yet none were hits on pop stations (or even played once). I'm not denying that country is popular on the country stations, but it is not popular on the pop stations (with the exception of crossover artists like Taylor Swift and Lady Antebellum, who usually have pop mixes generated for pop radio.) Secondly, each week, the top 10 of the Hot 100 usually consists of approximately eight rap or hip hop or urban songs, yet sometimes these songs aren't nearly that popular on mainstream radio the week that they jump into the top 10 (then eventually, they are because they are top 10 hits in Billboard, so pop stations must jump on board and start playing them.) And the reason that rap or hip hop songs have such an advantage on this chart is because they are played on rap stations, hip hop stations, pop/mainstream stations, urban stations, CHR/Rhythm stations, whereas a pure pop song is only played on mainstream stations and maybe AC stations, and the hip hop stations won't play a pure pop song.

Billboard does have the "Pop 100" chart - this is more consistent with what the "Hot 100" chart always was and should be titled the "Hot 100" (and considered the "Hot 100"). The "Hot 100", which is this multi-genre chart Billboard has created, may be good as a curiosity point but should really be labeled the "Pan-USA" chart, just as they have the "Pan-Europe" chart which summarizes all the European charts in one chart. Just as the country chart doesn't have 25 hip hop songs on it (even though hip hop is being played on Nashville stations), and you never saw rap stations playing Celine Dion during her '90s heyday, I think Billboard should have a chart that is more based on mainstream radio stations (and they do, but it's not the Hot 100 and should be).

Edited by EdisonLite on 23 September 2010 at 9:10am

aaronk
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Posted: 23 September 2010 at 9:04am \| IP Logged

EdisonLite wrote:

Seems odd to put them in 2nd place (above Rolling Stones, Beach Boys, Supremes)if it's a different set of singers on most "singles".

Regardless, it goes back to the point that it's no longer apples to apples. If the Rolling Stones, Beach Boys, and Supremes had all been selling records in the era of digital downloads, I'm sure they would have landed 10x more "singles" on the Hot 100 chart, because all of their hot selling album cuts would have counted.

EdisonLite
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Posted: 23 September 2010 at 9:16am \| IP Logged

Yeah, and I still don't feel Billboard has a handle on the way they determine the Hot 100 now. Before, they wouldn't allow radio-promoted singles that didn't have a commercial release. Now, the pendulum has swung too much the other way, as Billboard has an "anything goes" policy, it seems. Any downloaded song would count. For apples to be compared to only apples, I think Billboard should have kept some rules going, for instance, only making songs eligible that the label is actually promoting to radio. (This would eliminate all these one-week charters that were never intended as singles.) I realize it would take work on Billboard's part to sort out which songs are being promoted to radio, but there ought to be a way to do this. Maybe even have labels send Billboard a list of what the single from the album is and the release date it starts getting promoted to radio. (Of course, I'm sure the labels would find ways to abuse this system, too.)

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