Top 40 Music on Compact Disc: Michael Jackson

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Topic: Michael Jackson - the 45 versions on CD

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Brian W.
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Posted: 11 February 2008 at 11:57am \| IP Logged

Whoo hoo! Let's hope it's not CANCELED like the Australian version was. Thanks, Waldo.

waldo
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Posted: 12 February 2008 at 8:11am \| IP Logged

okay this is weird. a debate has arisen on a Michael Jackson forum where one fan/collector states that he has - what sounds to me like the 45 single mix of Human Nature, with the different instrumentation on the bridge - on the Thriller Special Edition released back in 2001. i checked my copy, and it has the regular version. anyone else with the Human Nature 45 switch?

http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1298448#p ost1298448

Brian W.
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Posted: 12 February 2008 at 1:26pm \| IP Logged

Hmm, interesting. But the second page wouldn't load, so I couldn't find out where the guy supposedly got his CD.

Regarding the new Thriller 25 CD, the Japanese version has an extra unreleased track from the original sessions called "Got the Hots." Sony Music Japan even has a preview of the song on its site. That's the one I'm going to be ordering.

The digital "Super Deluxe" edition of Thriller 25 has the Underground Mix of Billie Jean that I believe was done way back in the early-to-mid '90s and issued on extremely rare promo CD that I only saw once or twice. I just downloaded that track from MusicGiants. But I will say it's not that good... just a generic house/club, mid-90s type mix.

Todd Ireland
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Posted: 12 February 2008 at 9:04pm \| IP Logged

With all the false hopes we've had in the past of acquiring the 45 version of "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'" on CD, I sure hope the Japanese singles set doesn't resort to using the incorrect LP edits that disappointed and outraged many of us who purchased Michael Jackson's The Essential 2-CD set several years ago expecting to get all the true 45 versions, yet didn't. However, given the Japanese's excellent track record with producing the correct 45 versions on previous singles collections for the Carpenters and Madonna, will the "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'" 45 version prove to be the real deal at long last???

waldo
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Posted: 13 February 2008 at 9:43am \| IP Logged

i sure hope so, fingers crossed! here's something i found. it has been translated from Japanese.

Thriller Michael Jackson's 25th anniversary, the Japanese paper Jacquet limited to a single collection BOX!

100 million cumulative worldwide sales exceeding 4.0 million copies of the thriller, the historical record has been cut from the November 1982 to February 1984 was released in Japan every single analog board to seven sheets at the time of possible specifications reproduce as faithfully as CD Jacquet paper reprinted!

Single cut seven songs are all filled to fulfill the National TOP10 pathless feat also accomplished as an album, music history forever in the name of the thriller, chopped continue. The Japanese release will be limited to a single collection, BOX is the very memorable achievement is self-explanatory works with the data collectors is extremely high value items.

Japan released at the time machine to reproduce artwork label, and then describes statement. Coupling had been recorded and will be Japan's first CD also contains a rare source!

CD7 CD BOX / Jacquet paper specification / bilingual with lyrics

[Full] production of a limited-edition Ś end up running out of stocks.

Sales hit day 2008/03/26
No. goods EICP-945
Labels Epic Records('06.09`) Epic Records (.09-'06)
Shape state CD

disc 1:
1 @The Girl Is Mine (with Paul McCartney)
2 Can't Get Outta The Rain *become Japan's first CD

disc 2:
1 Billie Jean
2 It's The Falling In Love

disc 3:
1 Beat It
2 Get On The Floor

disc 4:
1 Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'
2 @Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'(Instrumental) * become Japan's first CD

disc 5:
1 Human Nature
2 Baby Be Mine

disc 6:
1 P.Y.T. (Pretty Young Thing)
2 Working Day And Night *Japan's first CD (released at the time of the first collection, which was announced mixed)

disc 7:
1 Thriller
2 @Things I Do For You (Live) /by The Jacksons

Thriller Michael Jackson's 25th anniversary, the Japanese paper Jacquet limited to a single collection BOX!

waldo
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Posted: 28 February 2008 at 7:26am \| IP Logged

Brian W. wrote:

Off the Wall Boy, was I surprised to find there have been three different mixes of this song -- the original LP, the 45 remix/edit, and a full-length remix. The 45 version can be found only on a Japanese CD3 from the series I just mentioned, called "Off the Wall/She's Out of My Life," Epic/Sony 10-8P-3045, UPC code 4988010603656. Actual running time is 3:48.

i recently found the 45 mix on another CD. :D
a Mixed Masters CD3 release, it was issued throughout Europe during 1989, the same year as the Japanese CD3. the mix is exactly the same on both CD's. it does sound very different to the album version. alot more pleasing to the ear.

http://www.mjcollectors.com/page/detail.php?id_liste=531

Brian W.
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Posted: 28 February 2008 at 1:21pm \| IP Logged

Huh! Interesting, Waldo. Thanks.

waldo
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Posted: 29 February 2008 at 5:58am \| IP Logged

i'm not so hopeful anymore with the release of the seven Japanese Thriller singles, they appear to be using a completely different flipside for P.Y.T., the correct B-side was a live version of Working Day And Night from the Jacksons 1981 live album... ummm not an instrumental.

Brian W.
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Posted: 29 February 2008 at 12:15pm \| IP Logged

waldo wrote:

I have a funny feeling that's just misinformation going around.

aaronk
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Posted: 02 March 2008 at 11:35pm \| IP Logged

waldo wrote:

i recently found the 45 mix on another CD. :D
a Mixed Masters CD3 release, it was issued throughout Europe during 1989, the same year as the Japanese CD3.

Did you buy the copy that I recently saw on eBay? I was tempted to bid, but I didn't end up going for it. What was the final price?

waldo
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Posted: 26 March 2008 at 8:39am \| IP Logged

bad news.. bad news.. bad news.. MIXED ISSUES

you won't believe this.. but Sony Japan have frigging messed up the 'Thriller 25 singles box set'... BIG TIME.. i'm so pissed off right now i want to throw the wretched thing against a wall. i think this was the last chance to get the correct 45 mixes.. if the Japanese can't issue them right then there is no hope.

three singles are correct:

The Girl Is Mine b/w Can't Get Outta The Rain
Billie Jean b/w It's The Falling In Love
P.Y.T. b/w Working Day And Night (1981 Live version)

but 4!!! wrong

Beat It b/w Get On the Floor

Beat It = is the normal album version.. the single faded two or three spilt seconds earlier..

Get On The Floor = is not the correct version.. on the original 45 they used the original 1979 Off The Wall album version not the 1980 remixed updated version with the completely different rhythm guitar added.

Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' b/w Instrumental

Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' = is not the correct verison.. it clocks in at the correct 45 time.. but you can clearly here that stupid monkey-like sound effect on the start of the line "Billie Jean is always talkin'"

the instrumental is fine

Human Nature b/w Baby Be Mine

i really really really hoped they would get this one right.. no such thing... they didn't!

Human Nature = is the album version clocked at the 45 time but with the regular instrumentation on the bridge.

Thriller b/w Things I Do For You (1981 Live version)

Thriller is that stupid 4:37 edit that bizzarely included just one verse of the Vincent Price rap.. out of all the 4 different edits this one was the worst and to my knowledge was never issued as a 45 anywhere!!
it first appeared on the 1992 UK Tour Souvenir CD set.

i'm seriously thinking of sending mine back.. and emailing Sony we AGAIN have incorrect mix issues.

Brian W.
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Posted: 26 March 2008 at 7:11pm \| IP Logged

Wow, that truly sucks, Waldo. It's absolutely disgusting. But it's worth it for me for the live versions and the "Wanna Be" instrumental.

I've already got the proper single version of Human Nature, Thriller, and the original album version of Get on the Floor, so those aren't that big of a deal to me.

I was hoping for the true 45 version of "Wanna Be," but it truly looks now like it will NEVER be issued on CD.

But you're incorrect about the 4:37 edit of Thriller -- it was the commercial single version in most world.

But how is the sound -- is it the typical compressed/maximized sound of the recent "Thriller" CD?

Todd Ireland
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Posted: 28 March 2008 at 8:22pm \| IP Logged

I feel your pain, guys. I honestly don't understand why no one can seem to get the single versions issued on CD . I can't believe the Japanese Thriller 25 box set release couldn't even get it right.

aaronk
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Posted: 28 March 2008 at 9:15pm \| IP Logged

It actually doesn't surprise me at all. Didn't someone on the Board previously report that even the Japanese pressing of Essential had the same butchered edits as the US version? They probably pulled some of those tracks right off that disc. It's much less work for the engineers, and let's face it, most folks are not nearly as particular and anal as we are, Sony's sound engineers included.

Todd Ireland
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Posted: 29 March 2008 at 7:37am \| IP Logged

With a CD release like Michael Jackson's Essential geared to appeal more to casual listeners who want nothing but the hits, I agree that most consumers wouldn't notice, much less even care, that the incorrect single mixes were used on that particular release. But in the case of a limited edition collection like this new Japanese box set, which is being marketed with the selling point that painstaking care was used to exactly replicate the seven commercial single releases from Thriller, isn't the primary target audience supposed to be "particular and anal" collectors like us? Let's face it, pretty much the only folks who are going to pay the big bucks for a set like this are hardcore Michael Jackson fans and Top 40/Hot 100 completists. How do the audio engineers figure such a specialized audience isn't going to notice the fact that incorrect single versions were used here?

Japanese audio engineers are known for their careful attention to detail and precision. That leads me to think that if not even they are using the correct single mixes, then those mixes may be lost or destroyed. Either that, or someone has possession of them who for some reason is not interested in letting them see the light of day again on CD.

Edited by Todd Ireland on 29 March 2008 at 8:03am

aaronk
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Posted: 29 March 2008 at 8:28pm \| IP Logged

You might be right, Paul; however, I still think it comes down to someone not wanting to put much effort into it. While it is marketed to a much more elite group of collectors, I think even most of those collectors either can't tell the difference or don't know which differences they are looking for. I, for one, wouldn't have known about TONS of incorrect versions, had it not been for this forum. They are probably banking on the fact that even 99% of the elite group who would buy a limited set probably won't know the difference. Maybe the engineers don't even know the difference!

Exactly how much work does it take to obtain a dub from a master tape, even if you have it in your possession? We are talking about tapes that are 25 years old. Is it possible that some of them are old and brittle and cannot be played without going through a long, involved process? If that is the case, how much easier would it be for an engineer to take a readily available version on CD and just edit it down on his laptop?

While it is possible that these tapes are "lost," I highly doubt it. If they can dig up the instrumentals, live tracks, demos, and b-sides, surely those singles masters are available, too. It's probably just a lot more work to transfer it from the tape than it is to use a CD source. Perhaps someone with insider info on how all that works can shed some light.

Edited by aaronk on 29 March 2008 at 8:36pm

Brian W.
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Posted: 29 March 2008 at 11:49pm \| IP Logged

Here's my opinion of what probably happened:

When "Essential" was done, new 45 edits were created for the songs in question using the album masters. Whoever did this didn't know or didn't care that they were not the correct mixes. I know Michael Palmaccio, who mastered "Essential," did not create these edits -- he told me so himself. (He was kind enough to call me on the phone after I sent him an angry letter after "Essential" was released.)

So now Sony has in its vaults incorrect digital masters mislabeled "single edit," and any new engineer that comes along is going to think those are the real deal.

I would assume that's what happened, but I don't know. But I was glad to have the instrumental for "Wanna Be" and the two live B-sides. They do sound to me like they were taken from tape sources, though of course they're still the typical loud/compressed sound of recent CD releases.

Edited by Brian W. on 29 March 2008 at 11:51pm

aaronk
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Posted: 30 March 2008 at 5:09am \| IP Logged

Brian, you have a very good point, and you're probably correct. The question remains: How did those bogus edits get there in the first place? My speculation remains the same in that someone didn't want to (or didn't have time to) put forth the required effort to locate the right tapes or transfer them from the tapes. I'd still love to know how that whole process works.

Underground Dub
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Posted: 30 March 2008 at 10:31am \| IP Logged

The same was done for the Eurythmics Ultimate Collection CD. They remastered the albums, and instead of going back and remastering the single versions for a tie-in greatest hits collection, they attempted to recreate edits from the new album remasters. Few of them are 100% correct.

Given that MJ's catalog was also remastered within this decade, I assume the same was done for his Essential set. I believe the Eurythmics disc came out through Sony as well.

Edited by Underground Dub on 30 March 2008 at 10:32am

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waldo
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Posted: 31 March 2008 at 8:31am \| IP Logged

Brian W. wrote:

But you're incorrect about the 4:37 edit of Thriller -- it was the commercial single version in most world.

thanks Brian, i stand corrected. that is the correct 45 mix issued in Japan.. was the short 45 version only pressed for the USA then?

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