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TomDiehl1
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| Posted: 02 July 2013 at 3:52pm | IP Logged
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That I couldn't tell you. When ABC issued the single track vocal version of Sealed With A Kiss by Brian Hyland on their Treasure Chest series 45, why wasn't the original stamper being used at that time?
Though when it comes to Three Dog Night, it seems many of my Goldies 45 reissues are stereo album versions....
Unrelated to this thread entirely, I recently purchased the entire collection of the biggest Ronnie Dove collector I knew (besides myself) and between his collection and mine we had 3 copies of a Canadian MCA 45 of one of Ronnie's singles, which used the original american stamper. How it ended up on MCA (In Canada only), and how they were able to get the original stamper, I'll never know.
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 02 July 2013 at 5:23pm | IP Logged
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TomDiehl1 wrote:
| When ABC issued the single track vocal version of Sealed With A Kiss by Brian Hyland on their Treasure Chest series 45, why wasn't the original stamper being used at that time? |
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Probably for the same reason that the artist on my Treasure Chest copy (which does have the double-tracked vocal) is listed as Barry Mann! In your case, Tom, somebody obviously pulled the wrong tape when a new lacquer needed to be cut for a major hit record that already gone through its share of stampers over the years. In my case, the typesetter at Alco Research & Engineering Company still had Barry Mann on the brain from the record's "Who Put The Bomp" flip side.
That's an interesting tale about the Ronnie Dove Canamerican anomaly. If ever there were a "mystery meat" among record labels, Diamond would certainly be near - if not actually at - the top of the menu.
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Paul C
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| Posted: 04 July 2013 at 3:32pm | IP Logged
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TomDiehl1 wrote:
Unrelated to this thread entirely, I recently purchased the entire collection of the biggest Ronnie Dove collector I knew (besides myself) and between his collection and mine we had 3 copies of a Canadian MCA 45 of one of Ronnie's singles, which used the original american stamper. How it ended up on MCA (In Canada only), and how they were able to get the original stamper, I'll never know. |
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Tom, as you likely know, Ronnie Dove's singles up to "Cry" were issued in Canada on the Apex label, which was a label of the Compo Company, which was essentially Decca's Canadian subsidiary and eventually evolved into MCA Canada.
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TomDiehl1
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| Posted: 04 July 2013 at 4:19pm | IP Logged
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Paul C wrote:
| Tom, as you likely know, Ronnie Dove's singles up to "Cry" were issued in Canada on the Apex label, which was a label of the Compo Company, which was essentially Decca's Canadian subsidiary and eventually evolved into MCA Canada. |
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Thanks, Paul. I didn't know that about the Compo Company. Perhaps tape dubs of some of Ronnie's masters may exist in a Universal vault somewhere in the world after all. I do have a Canadian pressing of Ronnie's first Decca 45, Party Doll (with the Belltones) from 1962, which Ronnie was surprised to learn existed (I've never seen a 2nd, and mine is in rough shape -- the person whose collection I bought had never come across one either).
One More Mountain To Climb was also on Apex (#77032). All of Ronnie's Diamond singles starting with My Babe (Diamond 221) were issued on a Canadian Diamond label which mentions "Manufactured And Distributed In Canada By The Compo Company LTD". I know many Diamond label 45s never made it to Canadian pressings on Apex, but I wonder how many did when Diamond finally set up a Canadian label. I much prefer the Canadian pressings, nice vinyl on them and they use the American stampers. I've never found a Canadian Diamond pressing of "What's Wrong With My World" (Diamond 256), though (and I somehow doubt one exists for "Chains Of Love" (Diamond 271) but I could be wrong. I've also never come across promotional copies of any Canadian Diamond or Apex discs.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 21 March 2014 at 3:51pm | IP Logged
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After some careful analysis, I can say that the mono 45 version of "Joy To The World" that's been floating around on CD is a vinyl dub. This explains why it fades earlier than the actual 45 and has some strange clicks throughout, in addition to some distortion in places.
In order to hide vinyl noise, the keyboard intro has been carefully spliced on from the stereo version and folded down to mono. The way I can tell is because on the stereo mix, the percussion mics are left up. Even though the drums haven't started, I can hear the rattle of the snares and possibly a faint hi-hat tap before the first drums on the stereo mix. None of this can be heard on the true mono mix. But, it can be heard on the 45 version on CD, which can only mean it was borrowed from the stereo.
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crapfromthepast
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It seems that the LP versions on Joy To The World Their Greatest Hits (copyright 1974) and Best Of (copyright 1982) are different mixes.
The version on Joy has a much wider stereo separation and a larger dynamic range than on Best Of, but has much less "punch" than Best Of.
Can someone take a listen to these two versions and help diagnose where they came from? I don't have any Three Dog Night on vinyl, and I don't know what the original LP version sounded like on the Naturally album.
It seems that all the LP versions I have on CD can trace their masterings back to one of these two CDs.
Edited by crapfromthepast on 19 December 2018 at 6:51am
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MMathews
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Ron I can help with this. They aren't different mixes but very different mastering.
The CD for "Joy To The World - Their Greatest Hits" was made from the LP master which apparently was in good shape by the time the CD was mastered. It has a very "warm" sound with some hi's rolled off.
But the "Best Of" LP was mastered with more mid-range and hi's and always sounded to me like all the tapes were a generation away from originals. But we needed that set because "Greatest Hits" was missing some hits.
So my preferred source has always been "Greatest Hits" for the hits it has... I just added back my own hi's. The songs on there sound very clean and transparent and as you say, very good dynamic range.
MM
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Bill Cahill
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| Posted: 19 December 2018 at 4:50pm | IP Logged
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I agree with Mark. Same recording, different mastering. The original vinyl versions of these compilation albums weren't that great
sounding to begin with. I had hoped that someone at MCA would have gone back to first generation masters and do these CD releases
right, but it sounds like when they grabbed whatever album tape they had on the shelf, added some noise reduction, and they were
done with it.
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 19 December 2018 at 8:49pm | IP Logged
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Thanks, Mark & Bill!
That is quite an unbelievable degradation in sound quality from the Joy collection in 1974 to Best Of in 1982. I wonder what actual first-generation tapes would sound like!
For what it's worth, the following CDs are based on the mastering of Joy:- PolyGram's 2-CD Entertainment Weekly Presents Rock Anthems (1993) - sounds kinda terrible; avoid this one
- Razor & Tie's 2-CD Super '70s (1995)
- Razor & Tie's 2-CD Suddenly '70s (1997)
- Razor & Tie's 6-CD 70 Number One Hits Of The 70s (1998)
- Razor & Tie's 1-CD Suddenly '70s (2001)
The following CDs are based on the mastering of Best Of:- Warner Special Products' 2-CD Real Rock (1987)
- Warner Special Products' 2-CD Feel Good Rock (1989)
For the LP version, go with Joy To The World Their Greatest Hits (copyright 1974).
Edited by crapfromthepast on 19 December 2018 at 8:50pm
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crapfromthepast
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The (almost) 45 version first turned up on CD on Rhino's Billboard Top Rock 'N' Roll Hits 1971 (1989), where it fades a few seconds early compared to the actual 45. You can hear a few vinyl crackles during the beginning of the song, where there isn't any instrumentation behind the opening vocal lines. On the plus side, there doesn't seem to be any noise reduction on this CD. The same analog transfer is used on:- Time-Life's Sounds Of The Seventies Vol. 2 1971 (1989) - digitally identical
- Razor & Tie's More Fabulous '70s (1991) - differently-EQ'd digital clone
- Time-Life's Sounds Of The Seventies Vol. 41 Pop Nuggets Early '70s (1996) - digitally exactly 0.3 dB quieter
There was a new analog transfer for MCA's 2-CD Three Dog Night set Celebrate (1993), which fades a little sooner than Billboard, but seems to avoid the vinyl cracklies that are on that disc. I can't tell if the intro here is replaced by a fold-down of the stereo version, as it is on Billboard. The same analog transfer is used on:- JCI's Only Rock 'N Roll 1970-1974 (1994)
- Varese Sarabande's Dick Bartley On The Radio Vol. 4 (1998)
- Rhino's Millennium Classic Rock Party (1999)
- Time-Life's AM Gold Vol. 29 #1 Hits Of The '70s '70-'74 (2000)
- Reader's Digest's 4-CD Time In A Bottle (2006) - truncates fade; avoid
Until Real Gone can get the licensing in place to do a proper Three Dog Night collection (with Aaron's mastering), I'd recommend going with MCA's Celebrate (1993) or one of the others from this list.
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PopArchivist
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| Posted: 20 December 2018 at 11:21pm | IP Logged
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I find it amazing that such a massive #1 hit is incorrectly timed to fade so early in all CD versions or goes on beyond the 45 in others.
You didnt mention it here, but the 45 version is in mono, not stereo as a lot of people assume it is. The running times for this song can go up to 3:40 on some versions and are short by several seconds on other versions.
Once again thanks for doing a thorough analysis of the song on CD.
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Topic: three dog night joy to the world
