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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 22 April 2007 at 9:59pm | IP Logged
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I just received my online purchase of a Spanky and Our Gang 4-CD set called The Complete Mercury Recordings released by the Hip-O Select label, which encompasses all of the group's album and single output. (I presume Pat doesn't list any CD titles from Hip-O Select in the database because these are limited edition reissues and are not sold at traditional retail outlets.) The first three discs consists of all of Spanky's albums in their entirety, plus some rarities on the second half of Disc Three. I purchased this set mainly for Disc Four, which contains the mono single mixes of all of the group's Top 40 hits as well as their B-sides.
I will say that the remastering on these CDs is overall excellent and probably the best Spanky and Our Gang has sounded to date from a sonic standpoint. On the downside, the Complete Mercury Recordings box set is way overpriced and HORRIBLY packaged. The CDs are jammed so tightly into overly-snug cardboard sleeves that it's impossible to remove the discs without scuffing and scratching them! Given that this box set retails for a whopping $80 (I paid closer to $54 for mine, though I still think that's a bit much!), I'm going to e-mail Hip-O Select and see if there's any way I can replace my discs with ones that aren't scratched. I mention all this for the benefit of anyone here who may be contemplating purchasing this set.
Ok, I've made some observations regarding a few of Spanky and Our Gang's Top 40 hits...
Sunday Will Never Be the Same - Pat, you distinguish all stereo CD appearances of this song in the database as the "LP mix" and the lone mono CD appearance as the "45 mix". Is this because of the reverb present on the LP that's not found on the 45? I just want to be sure I understand the basis for your comments.
Also, based on the box set, the 45 mix runs 2:55 and plays at a faster speed than the LP mix which runs 2:59. Perhaps someone can help me verify if these run times accurately reflect their actual vinyl 45 and LP counterparts. If so, then the speed difference should be noted in the database.
Makin' Every Minute Count - All CD appearances in the database denote "LP mix". I compared the stereo LP and the mono 45 as they're presented on the Complete Mercury Recordings box set, but I don't really detect any mix differences other than the standard mono/stereo channel separation. Are you hearing other mix differences, Pat?
I do notice a difference in the fade-outs and run time length on the box set... The LP begins fading out at 2:22 and ends at 2:34, while the 45 doesn't start fading until 2:27 and finishes at 2:36. Again, I don't know if this all matches up with their vinyl 45 and LP counterparts.
Lazy Day - All stereo CD appearances of this song in the database are listed as the "LP mix", while the lone mono CD appearance is shown as "45 mix". Again, I'm not really detecting any unique mix differences between the two other than the standard mono/stereo separation. Meanwhile, the song appears on the box set in both its original LP version and in its Spanky's Greatest Hits LP incarnation. On the latter version right after the lyric: "Blue skies, sunshine, flowers bloom and children saying hello", there are overdubbed voices saying stuff like "hello, how ya doin', how are ya" from 1:20 to 1:23. These overdubbed voices however do not appear on the 45 or LP version. Can anyone verify if these "Lazy Day" voices appear on the CD version of Spanky's Greatest Hits (Mercury 832584), or on any of the other CDs in the database?
Like to Get to Know You - According to the way the mono 45 is presented on the box set, the run time is 3:02. It is different from the version on the group's Like to Get to Know You LP in two major ways. 1) The song's intro during the LP version consists of campy dialog involving a highly flirtatious male who approaches a woman at a party and coyly tries to get her name and number after asking if she's lost a pink slipper in the back room. The 45 version does not contain this dialog during the song's intro. 2) The LP version runs 2:14 before seguing into the next track called "Chick-a-Ding-Ding" (run time: 2:23), which transitions into the next album track called "Stardust" (run time: 3:33), and then segues to the "Like to Get to Know You (Coda)", which runs :59. The coda is heard toward the end the 45 version.
Now, some bad news... It looks like all stereo CD appearances of "Like to Get to Know You" in the database should have the comment: (neither the 45 or LP version). The reason for this is because at approximately the 2:02 point, a low trumpet sound is heard as the song transitions into the slow, soft coda. This trumpet sound is not heard on the 45 version. Also, an acoustic guitar begins playing at the 2:08 mark on the 45 version, yet doesn't kick in until the 2:12 point on every stereo appearance of the song I've heard on CD to date.
One final thing... All of the Top 40 hits representing the Spanky's Greatest Hit(s) LP on the Complete Mercury Recordings box set are slightly remixed compared to the original stereo LP versions. I'm not sure if this is the case on the CD version of Spanky's Greatest Hits on Mercury 832584, but it's probably worth checking out.
Edited by Todd Ireland on 22 April 2007 at 10:04pm
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 22 April 2007 at 10:32pm | IP Logged
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I'm now thinking that a better comment to describe the stereo CD appearances of "Like to Get to Know You" in the database would be something more like: (stereo LP version edited in an unsuccessful attempt to recreate the 45 version).
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jimct
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| Posted: 22 April 2007 at 11:07pm | IP Logged
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Todd, I was planning to pick this collection up next month, so thanks for the "tight packaging" tip. (BTW, where'd you get it for that great price, old buddy old pal???) I just timed my commercial 45 for "Sunday Will Never Be The Same" for you, and it has both a listed and actual time of (2:55), so a sped-up 45v would seem to be the likely culprit there. As for "Lazy Day", 5-7 years ago, old buddy of mine "Smokin' Tom Gary" had told me he distinctly remembered hearing those overdubbed voices played on his AM radio when it was a current. But I have both a promo and commercial 45 for "Lazy Day", and the voices appear on NEITHER of them. But Todd, I DO own the version you refer to on a reprint 45. I've listened to it several times closely, however, and I've determined that it is actually the band members themselves sort of "screwing around", half-heartedly trying to sound like innocent children playing, in a tongue-in-cheek way. I can easily hear the hint of sarcasm in their voices, and personally I think it's highly unlikely those voices would've been included by the producers, as part of a "final take", despite my friend Tom's normally stellar memory for such details. But - that version had to come from somewhere, though. The question is "Where?" Finally, as for "Making Every Minute Count", my commercial 45 has a listed time of (2:30), but an actual time of (2:36), with the fade starting right at the (2:27) mark, Todd, so your Box Set's "mono single mix" for that one appears to check out OK with my 1967 45. Thanks for your many details, sir. Hope I've been able to address at least a couple of your inquiries.
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davidclark
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| Posted: 23 April 2007 at 9:06am | IP Logged
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guys, my understanding is that when Spanky's Greatest Hits came out in 1969, "Lazy Day" featured that "hello, how ya" stuff.
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sriv94
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| Posted: 23 April 2007 at 5:35pm | IP Logged
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Not sure how long this will last, but if you don't want to pay the whole enchilada just to get the mono single mixes, they are available piecemeal on iTunes.
I say that because on occasion iTunes will pull something that had been made available previously (doesn't happen often, but it did happen with a Carly Simon compilation).
I don't have access to other services like Rhapsody to find out whether the mono mixes are available there, but it might be worth checking out.
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Bob Lovely
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| Posted: 23 April 2007 at 7:25pm | IP Logged
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Todd,
All of the mono mixes on this set are "dedicated" mixes originally prepared for release as 45rpm singles. These mixes were even EQ'ed differently for radio airplay than their stereo mix counterparts.
Bob
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satchdr
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| Posted: 23 April 2007 at 7:38pm | IP Logged
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In response to Todd's question about "Lazy Day," the "hellos" do not appear on the CD of "Spanky's Greatest Hits" (Mercury 832584) nor do they appear on the version of the song contained in the "Lost Hits Of The '60s" CD (Warner Special Products OPCD-4673). I remember the "hellos," however, and I'm wondering if I just heard them on the radio or if they did appear on the LP version of "Spanky's Greatest Hits," an LP which is no longer in my collection.
Dan
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AndrewChouffi
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| Posted: 23 April 2007 at 8:13pm | IP Logged
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Yes Dan,
The "Hellos" DID appear on the vinyl 'Spanky's Greatest Hit(s)' lp, arguably for the first time.
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 24 April 2007 at 9:53pm | IP Logged
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jimct wrote:
| Todd, I was planning to pick this collection up next month, so thanks for the "tight packaging" tip. (BTW, where'd you get it for that great price, old buddy old pal???) I just timed my commercial 45 for "Sunday Will Never Be The Same" for you, and it has both a listed and actual time of (2:55), so a sped-up 45v would seem to be the likely culprit there. As for "Lazy Day", 5-7 years ago, old buddy of mine "Smokin' Tom Gary" had told me he distinctly remembered hearing those overdubbed voices played on his AM radio when it was a current. But I have both a promo and commercial 45 for "Lazy Day", and the voices appear on NEITHER of them. But Todd, I DO own the version you refer to on a reprint 45. I've listened to it several times closely, however, and I've determined that it is actually the band members themselves sort of "screwing around", half-heartedly trying to sound like innocent children playing, in a tongue-in-cheek way. I can easily hear the hint of sarcasm in their voices, and personally I think it's highly unlikely those voices would've been included by the producers, as part of a "final take", despite my friend Tom's normally stellar memory for such details. But - that version had to come from somewhere, though. The question is "Where?" Finally, as for "Making Every Minute Count", my commercial 45 has a listed time of (2:30), but an actual time of (2:36), with the fade starting right at the (2:27) mark, Todd, so your Box Set's "mono single mix" for that one appears to check out OK with my 1967 45. Thanks for your many details, sir. Hope I've been able to address at least a couple of your inquiries. |
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Jim, I knew I could count on you to come through with valuable run time info! We've established the 2:55 commercial 45 run time for "Sunday Will Never Be the Same"... Now we just need to confirm if the vinyl LP runs 2:59 and plays at a considerably slower speed than the 45, as is the case on the Spanky and Our Gang Complete Mercury Recordings box set.
I would have guessed that those few seconds of overdubbed voices on "Lazy Day" that you very eloquently describe, Jim, had first appeared on the Spanky and Our Gang Greatest Hit(s) LP, except that doesn't gel with your friend Tom's claim that he heard this version on the radio at the time the song was on the charts. This leads me to think that an additional promo 45 of "Lazy Day" must exist out there somewhere that contains the tongue-in-cheek "hello, how are ya" voices.
As for "Makin' Every Minute Count", I'm wondering if the perceived differences between the 45 and LP has more to do with EQ than with mixes. The same goes for the 45 and LP of "Lazy Day". I'd like to hear Pat's take on the "45 mix" and "LP mix" comments currently denoted for both songs in the database.
Oh, as far as the price I paid for the box set, I purchased it at CD Universe's website (www.cduniverse.com) at it's current retail price of $58.05 (you need to do an artist search under "Spanky McFarlane" to find the box set). As of right now, you can also sign up for a Google check-out account and save $10 off your total order. Once shipping charges were figured in and the discount was applied, my total price came out to approximately $54. Now, Doug is absolutely correct that you can download most of the tracks from the Complete Mercury Recordings box set on I-Tunes. Of course, bear in mind that I-Tunes downloads do not presently carry the same audio quality resolution as a CD. But for the steep price of the box set, I imagine most folks would probably rather download the tracks on I-Tunes with little or no concern regarding the slight difference in sound quality.
Edited by Todd Ireland on 24 April 2007 at 10:10pm
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 10 June 2007 at 8:42am | IP Logged
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Just thought I'd bump this thread back to the head of the pack since there are still a number of unanswered questions regarding Spanky and Our Gang Top 40 songs (see previous posts above). It doesn't look like any updates were ever made to the database, either.
One thing I think we can definitely conclude at this point is that all stereo CD appearances of "Like to Get to Know You" in the database are the stereo LP version edited in an unsuccessful attempt to recreate the 45 version. It also appears there's a recognizable speed difference between the 45 and LP of "Sunday Will Never Be the Same".
Pat, do you have any thoughts or opinions to contribute about this or anything else pertaining to the discussion above? Also, do you have any intention of including Hip-O Select product in the database in the future?
Edited by Todd Ireland on 10 June 2007 at 8:44am
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Pat Downey
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| Posted: 12 June 2007 at 6:04am | IP Logged
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There are obviously some Hip-O Select cd's in the database at the moment. I have tended not to include them because they are not in general distribution channels, they are expensive to purchase, and they do not offer promotional review copies. If a song appears only on a Hip-O Select piece then I generally try to include it in the database.
As to the Spanky & Our Gang situation, I did borrow that cd from someone when it was released and will give it another lsiten when time allows but right now I have other more pressing issues to look at other than LP vs 45 mix differences.
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Pat Downey
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| Posted: 04 September 2007 at 10:13pm | IP Logged
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Hey Todd, I finally had time to review the Spanky And Our Gang situation and have come up with the following: Sunday Will Never Be The Same is sped up on the 45 and I do hear a mix difference between the 45 and LP as the drums and percussion seem to be higher on the 45. As for Making Every Minute Count, I hear mix differences between the 45 and LP on the Hip-O Select cd box set but I do not hear those differences on the vinyk 45 vs vinyl LP. On Lazy Day I hear a slight mix difference with the harp being lower on the 45 mix (listen from :29 to :33). I don't see how you could edit the LP version of Like to Get To Know You to get either the 45 version or the other version that is appearing on cd which I call "neither the 45 nor LP version" as there is chatter overlapping the introduction on the LP version that is not on the 45 version.
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 05 September 2007 at 9:19am | IP Logged
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Pat:
Thanks for taking the time to check into all this. It looks like our conclusions are pretty much in agreement.
One question regarding "Sunday Will Never Be the Same"... In the database, you note the comment: (LP mix and speed) next to CD entries where the song runs 2:59. However, you only state: (LP mix) or (45 mix) next to all other CD appearances where the song runs 2:55-2:56. Does this mean that CDs containing the 2:55-2:56 length all run at the 45 speed, regardless of mix? If so, then it might be helpful to readers if the comments are expanded to say: (LP mix but 45 speed) or (45 mix and speed) next to those 2:55-2:56 entries. Just a thought.
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edtop40
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| Posted: 29 November 2012 at 10:00pm | IP Logged
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thanks to todd for his help on my review of spanky and
our gang's 5 top 40 songs...thanks todd!!
1--my commercial 45 for the song 'sunday will never be
the same' issued as mercury 72679 states the run time on
the label
as 2:55 and runs 2:55 and matches the 'complete mercury
recordings' mono cd version perfectly.....the vinyl 45 i
have is the
black and red version....
2--my commercial 45 for the song 'making every minute
count' issued as mercury 72714 states the run time on the
label as
2:30 but actually runs 2:36 and matches the 'complete
mercury recordings' mono cd version perfectly....pat, can
you check
your notes, because the mono version you list in the db
from that cd only runs 2:32.....the vinyl 45 i have is
the red
and black version
3--my commercial 45 for the song 'lazy day' issued as
mercury 72732 states the run time on the label as 3:05
but actually
only runs 3:01...you'll need to fade the 'complete
mercury recordings' mono cd version from 2:55 to 3:01 to
properly
recreate the true vinyl 45 version....the vinyl 45 i have
is the black and red version....
4--my commercial 45 for the song 'sunday mornin' issued
as mercury 72765 states the run time on the label as
'three minutes flat' and NOT 3:00, and runs precisely
3:00 and matches the 'complete mercury recordings' mono
cd version
perfectly....the vinyl 45 i have is the orange and
mustard swirl version...
5--my commercial 45 for the song 'like to get to know
you' issued as mercury 72795 states the run time on the
label as
3:06 but actually runs 3:12....the mono version from the
cd 'complete mercury recordings' fades the ending out
prematurely..
the version on the cd 'greatest hits' has a completely
different fade out and warrants the 'neither' moniker in
the db.......
hope this helps
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 30 November 2012 at 12:00am | IP Logged
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Good info, Ed, and thanks for including the actual vs. printed run times of your Spanky and Our Gang 45s.
And, yes, I agree that the correct run time for the mono mix of "Making Every Minute Count" on my The Complete Mercury Recordings box set is 2:36 (not 2:32 as currently shown in the database).
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Hykker
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Curiously, on CD #4 are all the songs mono, even those where the promo copies were mono/stereo ("Give A Damn", "Yesterday's Rain")? I'd originally thought LTGTKN was another, but re-checked my copy and it's mono on both sides.
I'm not very good at detecting a fold-down vs. a dedicated mono mix, but to my ears in both cases the mono mix is very similar to the stereo.
Edited by Hykker on 30 November 2012 at 7:55am
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davidclark
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| Posted: 28 March 2015 at 12:03am | IP Logged
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time to toss another mix difference into the mix...
The mix for "Sunday Will Never Be The Same" on the 1969
Spanky's Greatest Hits LP is different from the original stereo LP
mix. It resembles a 2-track mix. I first heard this on the Rhino Best
Of LP issued circa 1990. This "Greatest Hits" mix is present on The
Complete Mercury Recordings box (CD 2, track 14).
Edited by davidclark on 28 March 2015 at 1:55am
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Steve Carras
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Todd Ireland wrote:
Like to Get to Know You - According to the way the mono 45 is presented on the box set, the run time is 3:02. It is different from the version on the group's Like to Get to Know You LP in two major ways. 1) The song's intro during the LP version consists of campy dialog involving a highly flirtatious male who approaches a woman at a party and coyly tries to get her name and number after asking if she's lost a pink slipper in the back room. The 45 version does not contain this dialog during the song's intro. 2) The LP version runs 2:14 before seguing into the next track called "Chick-a-Ding-Ding" (run time: 2:23), which transitions into the next album track called "Stardust" (run time: 3:33), and then segues to the "Like to Get to Know You (Coda)", which runs :59. The coda is heard toward the end the 45 version.
Now, some bad news... It looks like all stereo CD appearances of "Like to Get to Know You" in the database should have the comment: (neither the 45 or LP version). The reason for this is because at approximately the 2:02 point, a low trumpet sound is heard as the song transitions into the slow, soft coda. This trumpet sound is not heard on the 45 version. Also, an acoustic guitar begins playing at the 2:08 mark on the 45 version, yet doesn't kick in until the 2:12 point on every stereo appearance of the song I've heard on CD to date. |
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This is a precurser, of course, to Chicago's 1970 "Ballet for a Girl in Buchannon" spawning a open and close splicing/editing ("Make Me Smile") and another song ("the middle, "Colour My World") and Ringo Starr's still later "Goodnight Vienna", among many others.
VERY unusual edit..!:)
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Bill Cahill
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On "Like To Get To Know You", I assumed (always a bad idea) that for compilations, Mercury just took the stereo mix from the DJ
45 which was a mono/stereo 45. But I don't have that promo. Does the stereo side of the DJ 45 match the "neither 45 or LP
version" or is it the parent LP mix? Or something else?
Edited by Bill Cahill on 11 March 2018 at 5:44am
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Steve Carras
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I just downloaded on SoulSeek a long version of "Sunday Mornin", with a lot of talk..
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Spanky and Our Gang
