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jimct
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| Posted: 19 May 2010 at 10:33am | IP Logged
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Since both the 1963 (BB Peak: #2) and 1966 (BB Peak: #16) Dot 45 hit releases for the same original 45 recording have different stock # info, etc, I'll include all the info for both 45 releases here. As I work my way backwards researching the 1960's, I will later add my 1963 "Wipe Out" hit 45 details to this post, when I reach that year. For now, my 1966 commercial 45 (confirmed as Dot 144, is styrene, with machine-stamped deadwax of "18041-2" ("18042-2" is crossed out just to the right)) has a listed time of (2:12), but an actual time of (2:16). I will confirm this later, but at first glance, based on the current database CDs/notations for this song, the 1963 45 timings appear to be exactly the same as my 1966 45 information is.
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jimct
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| Posted: 27 August 2010 at 6:43pm | IP Logged
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As promised above, I have just timed my 1963 commercial 45 of "Wipe Out" (confirmed as Dot 16479, with machine-stamped deadwax of "MW-18041-1"), and time-wise, it exactly parallels my 1966 commercial 45 findings, with a listed time of (2:12) and an actual time of (2:16).
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KentT
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The original issue was on the small DFS label and is very rare and worth high dollar. Dot picked this title up for national release and the Dot 45 was released twice. All Dot 45 singles have the same timing.
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aaronk
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I have an MCA reissue single that is a re-recording. It says on the bottom of the 45 label that this version was originally released on Decca. There is also a YouTube video that has the Decca 45 playing (a 1966 pressing, according to the guy who made the video), and the recording matches my reissue 45. It does not have the famous laugh at the beginning, but instead starts with the drum solo.
Was this yet a third release for "Wipeout" in the '60s? Did it chart?
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jimct
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Aaron, when Dot acquired the "Wipe Out/Surfer Joe" 45 master from DFS, I
believe those were the only two tunes that Dot actually "owned" by the
band at that time. I believe that the quickly-prepared "Wipe Out" 1963 Dot
LP actually used studio musicians to crank out remakes of old hit
instrumentals to fill up the album. When "Wipe Out" first hit, the band was
courted by many labels. Decca offered the best deal, so the Surfaris
signed with them. Decca issued in total 11 45s and 5 LPs between '63 and
'66. (Only 1 45 hit the BB Hot 100, though - the first one, "Point Panic", 3
months after "Wipe Out".) And, when the "Wipe Out" Dot 45 version had its
second hit run in 1966, Decca desperately tried to cash in on it, by
releasing the re-recorded version you have on that MCA reprint, on a 45
(originally Decca 32003, b/w "I'm A Hog For You"). Decca might've sold a
few copies to some confused 1966 record store customers, but that
version never got any airplay at all, and was/is generally considered far
inferior to the Dot 45. That was enough agita for Decca, though, who then
dropped the Surfaris. One label HAD made money off the group, however:
Dot. And after its second chart hit run in '66, the group did finally sign
with them. But, after putting out two flop 45s, in late '66/early '67, Dot
then cut the Surfaris loose as well.
Edited by jimct on 17 September 2011 at 7:31am
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Yah Shure
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MCA certainly didn't help to clarify any of the confusion. Even after acquiring the Dot hit and reissuing it under the old ABC Goldies 45 catalog number (2703, with "Surfer Joe" still on the flip) they continued to keep their reissue of the Decca remake (MCA 60055, with "I'm A Hog..." on the flip) in print for years.
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aaronk
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Thanks for all the great info, guys! There are a couple database CDs that say "re-recording." I wonder if those have the Decca re-recording.
Also, as a side note, the best copy on CD I've heard comes from Rhino's "Surfin' Hits." It blows away all other copies I've come across.
There is another Rhino compilation called "Frat Rock" that has skips/jumps in the audio, most noticeable at 0:26. This is because they edited out some of the loud clicks that appear on most copies.
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edtop40
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my 2 commercial 45's are the same as jim's above....if you
fade the 2:37 version for 0:06 from 2:10 to 2:16 you'll
effectively re-create the proper vinyl 45 version.....
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davidclark
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can anyone confirm with the extended version first appeared? I first got it on
the Vintage Music (but it has the clicking noises).
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crapfromthepast
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"Wipe Out" was only recorded in mono. No stereo, no fake stereo.
Vinyl 45 (2:16 or 2:17)
The song was on DTS and Princess before it ended up on Dot Records, and has been rerecorded multiple times afterward. The hit was on Dot.
According to an interview (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGtJ1dj3a2I&pp=ygUPc3VyZmFy aXMgZGZzIDQ1) with a member of the Surfaris, the hit version was an early fade of the full take. According to the interview, the full take might have been on the original DFS 45s, although I doubt it because the DFS 45 shows a printed time of 2:12, just like the later 45s. Discogs shows that a DFS 45 sold about three years ago for $2500, so I'm not going to investigate any further!
I have a dub of a vinyl 45 (ripped by Genes Oldies and cleaned by Pegasus) that runs about 2:16.5. If you start counting at "1" on the downbeat at 2:07 (the start of the last verse), the fade begins around beat "8", and the fade ends at beat "24".
I found a YouTube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z93EIhJaknc) of a US Dot 45 fading to silence at beat "24".
I found a YouTube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZVfElwt27o) of a UK London Dot 45 fading to silence at "20".
There's a video on YouTube by The45Prof (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c0rOUMHFaI), which starts the fade in the same place at beat "8", but fades to silence at beat "17".
There's another video on YouTube labeled as "the original hit version" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hLeQCnTGq8), which starts the fade in the same place at beat "8", but fades to silence at beat "22".
Which is correct? If I had to pick, I'd vote that the "24" versions are the true Dot (hit) 45 lengths: starting counting at "1" on the downbeat at 2:07, the fade begins at beat "8" and ends at beat "24".
CDs (most about 2:37)
The database currently shows 106 CDs having the song in mono, 9 in fake stereo, and 3 in stereo (including a digitally-extracted stereo version, a rerecording, and a possibly mislabeled entry in the database). For the hit version, you'll want the song in mono.
Virtually all the CDs out there run about 2:37, which is 20 seconds longer than the Dot 45.
I think the earliest CD to include the song is Original Sound's Oldies But Goodies Vol. 8 (1986), where it runs 2:28, or 11 seconds longer than the 45. It's the only CD to run at that length. Sound is OK here. It seems to be from a tape source. There's a small EQ difference between the left and right channels, so the soundstage is a little off-center in headphones. There are some tape crackles throughout the track, including quite a few between 0:25 and 0:30; the tape crackles are not on the 45. Still, this track is above average for the Original Sound series.
The earliest major-label CD to include the song is MCA's Vintage Music Volumes 7 And 8 (1986), where it runs 2:37, or 20 seconds longer than the 45. Sound is OK here - OK source tapes, great dynamic range, very natural-sounding EQ, no evidence of added noise reduction on the fade. It's in very good mono (meaning that in an OOPS test, the left and right channels cancel to better than -40 dB). But this mastering also has the tape crackles throughout, including a few between 0:25 and 0:30. I think the following discs use the same source tape used on Vintage Music (either a new analog transfer of the same source tape, or the same analog transfer):- Silver Eagle's mail-order 2-CD Rockin' Down The Block (1987)
- Time-Life's Rock 'N' Roll Era Vol. 7 1963 (1988)
- MCA's 3-inch CD Summer Oldies (MCAD-37302, 1988)
- Sessions/Warner Special Products' 2-CD Hot Rod Classics (1990)
- JCI's Surfin Sixties (1993)
- Simitar's Number Ones Party Time (1998)
There's a new analog transfer on Rhino's Frat Rock (1987). As Aaron noted above, this disc edits out the portions with the crackles, which causes the audio to jump ahead in some places. Not great. I would assume that all the editing would have to be done in the analog domain with razor blade and splice tape, which makes this a tape generation higher than the later Rhino discs. It does sound a little muffled compared to the later Rhino discs. It's in very good mono. The same analog transfer is used on:- Time-Life's Animal Rock (1994)
There's another new analog transfer on Rhino's Surfin' Hits (1989), which omits the tape crackles somehow, without editing out portions of the song. The fade begins sooner than Vintage Music, but ends in about the same place as Vintage Music. It's in very good mono. This version sounds clearer than Frat Rock. The same analog transfer is used on:- Rhino's KFOG Presents M. Dung's Idiot Show (1991)
- Rhino's Summer Hits (1993)
- Rhino's promo disc Rock Instrumental Classics Vols. 1-5 Sampler (PRCD 7043, 1994)
- Rhino's Let There Be Drums Vol. 2 The '60s (1994)
- Ace UK's Teen Been Vol. 3 (1996) - reduces volume of intro and shortens tail of fade
- Time-Life's Glory Days Of Rock 'N' Roll Vol. 14 Instrumentals (2000)
- Realm's 3-CD Summertime Party Pack (2002) - mastered too loud and clips a lot; avoid
- Time-Life's Rock And Roll The Legendary Years 1961-1964 (2004) - shortens tail of fade
There's a new analog transfer on Rhino's Rock Instrumental Classics Vol. 5 Surf (1994). The sound quality is extremely close to Surfin' Hits (no tape crackles, same EQ), but the fade doesn't start early. Here, the fade matches Vintage Music. It's in very good mono. I think I may hear the tiniest bit of noise reduction; the very, very end of the fade has a drop in the high end before the audio disappears. I don't hear that high end drop on Surfin' Hits. Regardless, it's nothing to worry about; the sound is excellent here. The same analog transfer is used on:- Rhino's Billboard Top Pop Hits 1963 (1994)
- Rhino's Cowabunga! The Surf Box (1996)
- Time-Life's Rock 'N' Roll Era Vol. 51 The Great Rock 'N' Roll Instrumentals (1996)
- TJL Ventures/UMe's Beach Music Classics Volume 3 (2016) - mastered too loud and clips a lot; avoid
- TM Century track no. 00021188
K-Tel's Party Of The Millennium (1998) cuts off some of the intro, is mastered too loud, and truncates the fade. Avoid.
My recommendation
I vote for Rhino's Rock Instrumental Classics Vol. 5 Surf (1994). The sound is superb, with excellent source tapes, great dynamic range, a slightly treble-heavy EQ, and a fade that doesn't start early. If I do hear a noise reduction artifact (and I'm not sure that I do), it's nothing to worry about.
Edited by crapfromthepast on 05 June 2024 at 3:15pm
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Hykker
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aaronk wrote:
There is also a YouTube video that has the Decca 45 playing (a 1966 pressing, according to the guy who made the video), and the
recording matches my reissue 45. It does not have the famous laugh at the beginning, but instead starts with the drum solo.
Was this yet a third release for "Wipeout" in the '60s? Did it chart? |
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Going strictly from memory here, but a high school friend had the parent LP on Dot for this, and as I recall "Wipeout" (1) did not have the
laugh at the beginning and (2) sounded like a different recording from the 45. Could this be the alleged 1966 re-recording?
Anyone have that LP and can confirm?
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vanmeter
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I have the Dot LP - playing it now - and it's exactly the same as the Dot 45 with the laugh, and "Wipe Out" runs about 2:16.
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crapfromthepast
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I'm having trouble figuring out when (and why) Decca made the rerecording.
The first Decca LP, Play, (released 1963) included the hit version.
The Decca 45 (released at latest 1966) included the rerecording.
Did Decca not have the rights to release the song on a 45?
Edited by crapfromthepast on 05 June 2024 at 4:54pm
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billbuster
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Here's part of the story on this video by Bob Berryhill, a founding member of the Surfaris, who tells how (at about 19:20 in the video) the band recorded a whole album for Dot, but instead of using their tapes Dot had the LA surf band The Challengers re-record the tunes for the album. I understand this was done because Dot found out the boys in the Surfaris were underage and not members of the musicians' union.
Video by Bob Berryhill, a founding member of the Surfaris
Decca and re-recording: After the Dot debacle, the Surfaris signed with Decca. But since Dot held the rights to their original "Wipe Out" recording, the band had to re-record the song for their Decca album, "The Surfaris Play." This 1963 Decca album featured the Surfaris playing their own instruments for "Wipe Out" and "Surfer Joe," along with new original material.
So, the re-recording for Decca was a necessity due to the legalities surrounding the original recording and their new label situation.
Edited by billbuster on 06 June 2024 at 12:24am
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Hykker
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vanmeter wrote:
I have the Dot LP - playing it now - and it's exactly the same as the Dot 45 with the laugh, and "Wipe Out" runs about 2:16.
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I can say with absolute certainty that my friend's LP did NOT have the laugh. Maybe he had the Decca LP that Bill mentioned, or maybe there
were 2 different pressings? It's been 60 years, and we've long since lost touch.
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crapfromthepast
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I figured out the Decca situation.
Decca never had the rights at all to the hit version. The YouTube video showing the hit version playing on a Decca LP clearly had its audio replaced. You can see from the record label that a different song is playing while we hear the audio to “Wipe Out”.
My fault for not being more careful with the YouTube clips.
Edited by crapfromthepast on 06 June 2024 at 2:13pm
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aaronk
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Ron and I were emailing about this, and it appears that what's on CD is not the original mix. I pulled my original 1963 Dot 45, and the reverb on the intro is noticeably different, as is the entire mix. This would explain why all CD versions are about 20 seconds longer than the 45. Someone went back to the original multi-track tape and made a new mix, perhaps to clean up the fidelity, as the original is a bit grungy sounding.
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AndrewChouffi
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To Aaron & Ron:
To the best of my knowledge, "Wipe-Out" (as it was
labeled on the original DFS B-side) was *recorded* in
full-track mono (as opposed to being *mixed* to mono from
2, 3 or 4 tracks) as it was recorded as a throwaway B-
side to "Surfer Joe" in a small studio in California.
Therefore, on a technicality, there cannot be an
alternate *mix* of the cut.
However, the record was picked up by Princess Records,
and then ultimately Dot records for national distribution
and somewhere along the way reverb was added (as well as
compression & EQ). The hit Dot 45 was at least 2
generations away from the master tape or possibly a
modified needledrop of the original DFS or Princess 45.
So while it sure *sounds* like a different mix, I don't
believe there can be a different mix.
Andy
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AndrewChouffi
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| Posted: 23 July 2024 at 4:54am | IP Logged
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Edited to add: I'm pretty sure that Steve Hoffman found
the original tape (which had a longer fade) while he was
doing tape research for that great 'Vintage Music' series.
He was a California man and had his finger on the pulse of
statewide studios purging their tapes.
Andy
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aaronk
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Good info, Andy. It must be the higher gen tape, the difference in reverb (which I assume was added to the entire song, even though it's most noticeably different on the intro), and compression.
Brian sent me a copy from a UK Reader's Digest CD comp, and while this CD has the correct reverb and compression, the EQ sounds nothing like what is on the Dot 45 and is pretty bad sounding. It's probably an even higher generation tape, which doesn't help.
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Topic: The Surfaris-"Wipe Out"
