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Paul Haney
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| Posted: 01 April 2005 at 2:42pm | IP Logged
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"Fly, Robin, Fly" was commercially released on a vinyl 45 with 2 different times: 3:45 and the more common 3:05.
"Get Up And Boogie (That's Right)" was commercially released on a vinyl 45 with 2 different times: 4:05 and the more common 2:45.
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edtop40
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| Posted: 01 April 2005 at 5:04pm | IP Logged
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paul.....the 45 issued in 1976 on midland int'l 10571 runs 4:00 even though the label face says the run time is 4:05
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 02 April 2005 at 1:58pm | IP Logged
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Paul Haney claims a commercial vinyl 45 was issued for "Fly, Robin, Fly" with a run time of 3:45. I notice in the 10th edition of T40MOCD there are a number of CDs where "Fly, Robin, Fly" runs (3:46) or (3:47) but Pat comments in each instance that this is "neither the 45 or LP version". Could any or all of the CDs containing the 3:46-3:47 version actually be the 45 version that Paul cites?
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 02 April 2005 at 2:29pm | IP Logged
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I guess the same also holds true for "Get Up and Boogie". There are a number of CDs in the 10th edition where the song runs between 3:57 and 3:59. Could this actually be the other 45 version Paul and Ed report?
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Paul Haney
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| Posted: 06 April 2005 at 8:49am | IP Logged
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Okay, I've done some more research on these titles.
"Fly, Robin, Fly" vinyl 45's run 3:05 and 3:45. Thus all the 3:46-3:47 versions listed in Pat's book should be noted (long 45 version).
"Get Up And Boogie" vinyl 45's run 2:45 and 4:00. Thus all the 3:58-3:59 versions listed in Pat's book should be noted (long 45 version).
It should be noted that the shorter versions were the more commonly heard on Top 40 radio at the time.
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 06 April 2005 at 9:58am | IP Logged
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Paul Haney wrote:
Okay, I've done some more research on these titles.
"Fly, Robin, Fly" vinyl 45's run 3:05 and 3:45. Thus all the 3:46-3:47 versions listed in Pat's book should be noted (long 45 version).
"Get Up And Boogie" vinyl 45's run 2:45 and 4:00. Thus all the 3:58-3:59 versions listed in Pat's book should be noted (long 45 version).
It should be noted that the shorter versions were the more commonly heard on Top 40 radio at the time. |
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Paul:
Thanks for bringing the long 45 versions of the Silver Conventions' hits to our attention. Up until your posted messages, I was never aware these versions existed.
Just curious though, did you go through all the CDs in Pat's book with the 3:46-3:47 versions of "Fly, Robin, Fly" and the 3:58-3:59 versions of "Get Up and Boogie" and verify they are all indeed the long 45 versions? I ask because if there's one thing I've learned with collecting Top 40 music on CD, it's that nothing can be taken for granted. Unless checked for verification, it's always possible that one, some, or all of the 3:46-3:47 CD appearances of "Fly, Robin, Fly" and 3:58-3:59 appearances of "Get Up and Boogie" could contain incorrect edits compared to the actual 45s. In fact, it was pointed out in another thread recently that a couple of Lionel Richie songs previously thought to be the 45 versions on CD turned out to have incorrect edits. While chances do appear pretty good the correct long 45 versions of "Fly, Robin, Fly" and "Get Up and Boogie" are widely available on CD, we don't really know for sure until someone goes through all the CDs and does A/B comparisons to the actual 45s (unless of course you've already done this, which would make my whole post moot!).
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Paul Haney
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| Posted: 06 April 2005 at 11:17am | IP Logged
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Hey Todd, here are the ones I checked:
"Fly, Robin, Fly" - Rhino 72123 & Rhino 72414 & Rhino 75595 and Priority 53142
"Get Up And Boogie" - Polydor 314565357.
Those are the only ones I have and they are indeed the long 45 version. Would still be nice to see the 3:05 "Robin" surface on CD someday.
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sriv94
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| Posted: 24 November 2005 at 6:07pm | IP Logged
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Question about the (3:05) version--is the difference between the short 45 and long 45 the removal of the section between (approximately 0:43.01) and (approximately 1:21.12) of the long 45? Or are there other differences (meaning I got my edits compeltely wrong)?
Oh, and happy Turkey Day to y'all. Hope everyone's feast was bountiful.
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crapfromthepast
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The database lists the short 45 version as "short 45 version", but lists all the long 45 version discs as "long 45 version but slightly faster".
All the versions I have on CD (both long and short) run 105.0 BPM (a live drummer playing to a click track).
Does anyone have a reliable needledrop of the long 45? I'll be happy to report a BPM value for the vinyl long 45, so we can compare with what's on CD.
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 23 August 2016 at 8:48pm | IP Logged
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Ron, were you looking for "Fly, Robin, Fly" or "Get Up And Boogie"?
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MMathews
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| Posted: 24 August 2016 at 3:43am | IP Logged
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sriv94 wrote:
Question about the (3:05) version--is the
difference between the short 45 and long 45 the removal
of the section between (approximately 0:43.01) and
(approximately 1:21.12) of the long 45? Or are there
other differences (meaning I got my edits compeltely
wrong)? |
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Doug, I don't know if you ever got your answer to that
question but the answer is no, that isn't the difference.
You can't make the short 45 from the long one. They both
use different sections of the LP version. In the short
45, the segment from 1:47 - 2:21 never occurs in the long
45.
MM
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 24 August 2016 at 4:27am | IP Logged
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Yah Shure wrote:
Ron, were you looking for "Fly,
Robin, Fly" or "Get Up And Boogie"? |
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Oops - "Get Up And Boogie"!
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Paul Haney
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| Posted: 24 August 2016 at 6:01am | IP Logged
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Wow, was it really 11+ years ago when I first posted this topic?!?
Anyway, I see that the short 45 of "Fly Robin Fly" still hasn't been issued on CD. Does anybody have a recreation that they could possibly send my way?
Also, I note that Pat's database says that the long 45 version of "Get Up And Boogie" runs (4:03), yet Ed stated that his copy runs (4:00). Ed's timing would be within a second or two of the existing CD versions. Pat, how did you determine that those CD versions run slightly fast? Hopefully Ron can help sort all of this out for us.
Edited by Paul Haney on 24 August 2016 at 6:02am
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crapfromthepast
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John sent me a vinyl dub of the long 45 version of "Get Up And Boogie (That's Right)".
We know that the song was recorded with a click track, with no variation in tempo from start to finish. Such a version exists on CDs.
John's dub of the long 45 starts at 103.9 BPM and ends at 102.9 BPM. That's 1.0% slower than the CD version at the beginning of the song, and 2.0% slower at the end of the song. It's not just a drop in tempo, but a drop in pitch as well.
Clearly, this is not intentional; no mastering engineer would deliberately slow down the song from the beginning to the end.
(In the odd case of the 45 of Duran Duran's "The Reflex", the engineer consciously sped the song up from beginning to end, but that was Nile Rodgers's intentional decision as producer/remix engineer.)
I'd call this a "mastering error" on the long 45, in which the song starts too slow, and gets progressively slower over the course of the song. I believe that 105.0 BPM is the correct tempo, as the song was recorded, and that the long 45's tempo of 103.9-102.9 BPM is incorrect and too slow.
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 24 August 2016 at 11:07am | IP Logged
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The stereo side of the long DJ 45 I sent to Ron runs an actual 4:03, BTW.
The actual title on the initial (long) DJ 45 is simply "Get Up And Boogie," with no parenthetical addition. The extra "(That's Right)" was tacked onto the title of the subsequent short DJ 45. Longer title, shorter record.
Given that the gradual slowdown was likely due to a mastering error, should the long 45 be referred to as "Get Up And Boogie (That's Wrong)"? ;)
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 24 August 2016 at 11:31am | IP Logged
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Mark Matthews mentioned above you can't recreate the
short version of "Fly, Robin, Fly" from what's on CD.
In my collection, I have a 320 bit rate mp3 that I
created from The Disco Years, Vol. 7.
I'm not sure if I recreated a "neither" or what I have,
or where the edit(s) are, but it runs 3:05.
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 24 August 2016 at 12:53pm | IP Logged
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Yah Shure wrote:
| The actual title on the initial (long) DJ 45 .... |
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You bring up an interesting detail: Which version was released first for both "Get Up And Boogie" and "Fly Robin Fly"? And which appear(s) on the promo vs. commercial 45s? Did radio ask Windsong for a shorter version back then?
(Edit: Hits Man correctly identified the label as Midland, not Windsong. I should not post from memory...)
Edited by crapfromthepast on 24 August 2016 at 2:38pm
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MMathews
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eriejwg wrote:
In my collection, I have a 320 bit rate
mp3 that I
created from The Disco Years, Vol. 7.
I'm not sure if I recreated a "neither" or what I have,
or where the edit(s) are, but it runs 3:05. |
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erie, you probably made the edit that Doug described
above, removing the section from about :43 - 1:21 of the
long 45. The resulting edit runs about 3:05. But that
result contains a "verse" from 1:47 - 2:16 that is not in
the actual short 45.
To clarify (I hope): after the instrumental break in the
middle of the song, the long 45 uses the verse from 2:28
- 2:57 of the LP before the ending break. But the short
45 uses the verse from 3:02 - 3:35 of the LP instead.
The difference you can hear is the in the short 45 there
are 2 electric piano "flourishes," one at 1:50 and and
another at 2:14 that you never hear in the long 45.
MM
Edited by MMathews on 24 August 2016 at 1:56pm
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The Hits Man
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| Posted: 24 August 2016 at 2:00pm | IP Logged
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The original U.S. label was Midland. For "Fly Robin
Fly", the shortest version was usually played on the
radio, and the version I have on 45. In fact, my
commercial 45 is double-sided with the shorter version on
one side, and the longer on the other.
I have the same situation with "Get Up And Boogie".
However, in my area, the 4:00 version was played on the
radio.
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 24 August 2016 at 2:42pm | IP Logged
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crapfromthepast wrote:
| Which version was released first for both "Get Up And Boogie" and "Fly Robin Fly"? And which appear(s) on the promo vs. commercial 45s? Did radio ask Windsong for a shorter version back then? |
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Windsong? You mean John Denver appeared on both hits? ;) The label name wasn't changed from Midland International to Midsong International until well after both singles had run their courses. Midsong International was the label that appeared on the later reissue 45 in RCA's Gold Standard Series, with the short versions of both hits placed back to back, in stereo.
I'm sure radio requested a shorter version of "Boogie." I was a college station MD at the time, so we would have welcomed the opportunity to yap for an extra 75 seconds or so. ;) "Robin" had already provided programmers with a length option right from the get-go.
Here's the order in which the DJ 45s were issued, along with each side's matrix number:
Midland International 10339 initial DJ 45
"Fly, Robin, Fly" [stereo] 3:45 (MB-10339-A)
b/w
"Fly, Robin, Fly" [mono] 3:05 (MB-10339-C)
Midland International 10339 second DJ 45
"Fly, Robin, Fly (Long Version)" [stereo] 3:45 (MB-10339-A)
b/w
"Fly, Robin, Fly (Short Version)" [stereo] 3:05 (MB-10339-Z)
------
Midland International 10571 initial DJ 45
"Get Up And Boogie" [stereo] 4:05 (MB-10571-A)
b/w
"Get Up And Boogie" [mono] 4:05 (MB-10571-C)
Midland International 10571 second DJ 45
"Get Up And Boogie (That's Right)" [stereo] 2:47 (MB-10571-D)
b/w
"Get Up And Boogie (That's Right)" [mono] 2:47 (MB-10571-E)
Just to add to the confusion, the B-side of the first "Fly, Robin, Fly" stock pressings out of the chute was "Chains Of Love" (MB-10339-B matrix.) That was replaced on subsequent pressings by "Tiger Baby" (MB-10339-D.)
All of this proved to be a great boon to elementary education. Whenever kindergarten students questioned the need to learn their ABCs, their teachers needed only reply: "Because you may find yourselves working at an RCA pressing plant someday."
Edited by Yah Shure on 24 August 2016 at 2:46pm
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Topic: Silver Convention singles
