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Loveland
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Todd Ireland wrote:
The 1980s - 28 titles have not yet appeared on CD
Beach Boys, The - Beach Boys Medley, The (1981)
Stars on 45 - Stars on 45 III (1982)
The 1990s - 2 titles have not yet appeared on CD
John, Elton - Candle in the Wind 1997 (1997)
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The past few weeks, I've been buying some old CDs with hard-to-find-on-CD mixes. According to this thread:
http://www.top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2929
If a 'single version' is not included on a U.S. commercial CD album / compilation, then said 'single version' is considered to be 'not available on CD' (i.e. Candle In The Wind 97), correct? The list given on the above thread does not include any of the Milli Vanilli singles: only "Girl I'm Gonna Miss You" has been released commercially on a U.S. commercial CD album (and only on the album's fourth pressing); the other five singles have not appeared on CD format.
Per that thread, commercial CD singles do not count, only U.S. commercial CD albums / compilations do. What about EPs? "The Beach Boys Medley" was released on a U.S. commercial CD EP:
https://www.discogs.com/The-Beach-Boys-Sounds-Of-Summer-Sing les/release/5609636
It's a U.S. commercial CD EP compilation, it's not a CD single.
I would change the Stevie Wonder medley to:
Stars On - Stars On 45 III: A Tribute To Stevie Wonder (1982)
Edited by Loveland on 15October2019 at 10:57am
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aaronk
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I think Pat counts EPs the same way he counts singles and does not include them. Also, as we all know, "not available on CD" has a caveat. It means for purposes of the database, the song has never appeared on a full-length US CD. These are rules, though, that go back to Pat's original vision when he was first publishing books. Certainly there are imports, singles, and EPs that contain US top 40 hits that are simply not eligible for the database based on his current rules.
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Aaron Kannowski
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aaronk
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Oh, also, further clarification, the "not available on CD" has nothing to do with any particular version. It's only if the song doesn't appear on any US full-length CDs in any originally released version. So, Milli Vanilli is available on CD, but they may only be LP versions. For songs that are only available as later re-recorded versions, Pat still indicates those as "not available."
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Aaron Kannowski
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Loveland
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aaronk wrote:
| Oh, also, further clarification, the "not available on CD" has nothing to do with any particular version. It's only if the song doesn't appear on any US full-length CDs in any originally released version. So, Milli Vanilli is available on CD, but they may only be LP versions. For songs that are only available as later re-recorded versions, Pat still indicates those as "not available." |
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To me, this all appears to be somewhat contradictory, and extremely confusing. Again, to me. That being said the database doesn't seem to follow its own rules, since "Voices That Care" is 'available on CD', while "Candle In The Wind '97" is 'not available on CD'. Both songs are only available on their respective singles only.
My suggestion, for the forum, is that we should be uniform across the board. Instead of listing things under 'The 1960s - 125 titles have not yet appeared on CD', they should be listed under 'The 1960s - 125 titles have not yet appeared on a U.S. commercial CD album/compilation'. Otherwise, it's rather confusing.
IMHO: In the U.S. EPs have always been considered as albums, not singles (other than for a short period in the 60s?). Singles usually have a very short commercial span - remaining in print for just a couple of months. EPs, on the other hand, remain in print for years - usually for as long as albums do.
Edited by Loveland on 15October2019 at 8:12pm
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aaronk
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These are Pat's rules, subjective as they may be, so I just try to understand them as best as possible. Why does he include the Voices That Care maxi CD single? I honestly have no clue. Perhaps he was considering adding some singles in rare cases but changed his mind and forgot to remove it.
IMHO, I wish the database included singles, EPs, and imports, and it would be nice if it included time-tested "hits" that missed the top 40. I can understand, though, why Pat would want to keep it limited in scope. It's labor of love for him (aka "unprofitable") that requires a lot of time as it is. Expanding it would potentially mean a ton of additional hours of data entry.
That's why, though, we have the forum to discuss things that are not in the database.
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Aaron Kannowski
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Loveland
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aaronk wrote:
These are Pat's rules, subjective as they may be, so I just try to understand them as best as possible. Why does he include the Voices That Care maxi CD single? I honestly have no clue. Perhaps he was considering adding some singles in rare cases but changed his mind and forgot to remove it.
IMHO, I wish the database included singles, EPs, and imports, and it would be nice if it included time-tested "hits" that missed the top 40. I can understand, though, why Pat would want to keep it limited in scope. It's labor of love for him (aka "unprofitable") that requires a lot of time as it is. Expanding it would potentially mean a ton of additional hours of data entry.
That's why, though, we have the forum to discuss things that are not in the database. |
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I'm always very careful the way I phrase my posts: The changes I suggest are always for the forum only not the DB. And they are always suggestions, not mandates.
It could be argued that this forum has two types of guests: the ones who live in this community and the ones who come for a visit. I discovered this forum... 10 years ago? while I was hunting down single versions on CD. I'd say that a lot of visitors come to this forum when they are looking for rare single versions available on CD format.
My question are: Is the purpose of the forum the same as the DB?
- If so, my understanding has always been that the purpose was to catalog 'single version' on CD. If that is not the case, is the purpose to merely catalog 'album version's available on CD? That doesn't make sense to me, since most albums contain the 'album version'; it would seem redundant.
- If the purposes of the DB and forum are not the same, does it stand to reason then that forum is to catalog single versions available on CD format? After all, the forum (and its URL) is called Top 40 Music On Compact Disc, and not Album Versions on Compact Disc.
Perhaps it would be a good idea to create a new post and pin it to the top (for newer members to read)? Sort of like the forum's / DB's "mission statement"?
80smusicfreak wrote:
| Interesting situation here. For starters, although the vinyl LP & cassette were both issued on Casablanca 7264 in early 1982, by the time the CD version came out in 1983-84, the Casablanca label was no more |
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PolyGram folded Casablanca Records onto Mercury Records in 1986 (read: closed). I believe Animotion was one of its last releases. If you're referring to Dr. Hook 1984 CD from Germany, Casablanca was really a U.S.-only label, hence why the German CD sports a Mercury label.
Todd Ireland wrote:
Paul C wrote:
| 'The Beach Boys Medley' was issued in the U.S. in 2003 on the four track CD, Sounds Of Summer Singles. It contains a production error, however, causing something weird to happen to the speed of the tape near the end of the fadeout. It is therefore technically not the 45 version. |
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I pulled out my copy of the four track CD containing "The Beach Boys Medley" and it does indeed sound like the tape source begins "dragging" at the 4:01 mark (the song fades completely out at 4:08). I've never been particularly impressed with the mastering of this CD either because the dynamic range is largely lost due to overcompression of the audio levels. |
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Is the correct mix found on the Japanese 1997 reissue of "Rarities", which incidentally includes all three medleys?:
https://www.discogs.com/The-Beach-Boys-ビーチボーイズ-Rariti es-Beach-Boys-Medley-レアリティーズビーチボー/release/378665 7
Edited by Loveland on 15October2019 at 10:35pm
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aaronk
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Loveland wrote:
| I'd say that a lot of visitors come to this forum when they are looking for rare single versions available on CD format. |
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I'd say you're right about that, and it's the same reason I joined.
Loveland wrote:
| Is the purpose of the forum the same as the DB? |
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The forum was originally set up to support the database. Prior to the forum and database, Pat published a book with this information. Over the years through this forum, we've been able to point out hundreds of updates/corrections for the database. That's a big part of what the forum is here to do, but it has also become a way to help others find the versions they are looking for that may be outside the scope of the database (imports, CD singles, making your own edits, etc.). In short, the forum gave us a way to communicate, provide information to each other, ask questions, supply Pat with updates, etc.
Loveland wrote:
| If so, my understanding has always been that the purpose was to catalog 'single version' on CD. |
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While it's accurate to say that most of us here collect single versions (probably more than album versions), the purpose of the database and forum is not exclusively to catalog which CDs have the single versions, but rather it's to catalog which CDs have US top 40 hits and then label which version is contained on each CD.
Again, I'm using "single version" aka "45 version" in general terms, as we normally use it here, which is to indicate the version that appears on the A-side of the 7" or cassette single or the lead track of the 2-track CD single. The "45 version" or "single version" (general terms) may have an officially named version by the record label, which we would typically indicate by capitalizing the first letter. Examples might be Edit, Radio Edit, Single Edit, 7" Edit, Remix/Edit, 7" Version, Single Version, Radio Remix, and so on and so forth. Because there isn't any consistency as to what record labels will call these versions, we keep things simple and less confusing by simply saying "45 version" or "single version." If a CD contains the "single version," we mean it has the same version that appears as the A-side of the single, regardless of what the record label has officially named it.
Loveland wrote:
| Perhaps it would be a good idea to create a new post and pin it to the top (for newer members to read)? Sort of like the forum's / DB's "mission statement"? |
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I'm happy to do that if people think it would be helpful.
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Aaron Kannowski
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aaronk
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Loveland wrote:
| Instead of listing things under 'The 1960s - 125 titles have not yet appeared on CD', they should be listed under 'The 1960s - 125 titles have not yet appeared on a U.S. commercial CD album/compilation'. Otherwise, it's rather confusing. |
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Fair point on this, and I agree. The thing to consider, though, is that this particular thread was started in 2005, and it's one of the earliest posts on the entire forum. Pat was directly referencing the database (as it was in 2005), and so yes, it was meaning those songs had yet to appear on a full-length US CD. While there are a handful of these types of threads on the forum, I don't think there are an abundance of them.
Edited by aaronk on 16October2019 at 10:04am
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Aaron Kannowski
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PopArchivist
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Aaron,
One of the main problems in the last few years is that huge hits like Old Town Road dont even appear on CD anymore (the original not the remix with Billy). I had to search to find Lil Nas and his released album digitally, there was no CD distribution of it.
The days of finding a full-length US CD with today's hits outside the NOW series is getting harder and harder. Since I have been assembling 2019's top 40 myself all year, I can tell you that only 20 percent have come from ripping CD's and 80 percent have come from digital download. Unless your Taylor Swift or Post Malone you generally are not releasing CD's anymore. Walmart and Target and Best Buy have no new CD sections anymore leading to the problem.
Edited by PopArchivist on 09December2019 at 11:51am
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BradOlson
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Walmart and Target here do have a few CDs but not that
many. You need to go on Amazon or importcds.com to find
out if anything current is on CD.
Edited by BradOlson on 15December2019 at 7:20pm
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AutumnAarilyn
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Amazon isn't the best place to determine track
listings. Discogs is solid but someone has to put that
disc in the database. I know many newer smooth jazz
titles, 50's jazz reissues, and cdbaby artists that
are not in the Discogs database. Just released titles
and compilations are not in there for weeks or more.
It's a shame but the lack of sealed cds in a store for
purchase is a byproduct of not enforcing copyright law
back in the late 90's with Napster and file sharing.
The false nostalgia of plastic records (vinyl) has
just ruined collecting for those who already replaced
worn out styrene 45's and unspooled tapes.
Edited by AutumnAarilyn on 15December2019 at 10:13pm
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PopArchivist
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BradOlson wrote:
Walmart and Target here do have a few CDs but not that
many. You need to go on Amazon or importcds.com to find
out if anything current is on CD. |
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Walmart has CDs but they are more focused on Blu Rays and 4Ks. Target near me does not even have CDs anymore.
As for Best Buy, most dont carry new CD's. FYE is the only place I know that will have the new CD releases here...
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Santi Paradoa
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There still are new releases from time to time that have Target Exclusive CD versions with extra tracks. I would think every Target would have those available for a short period of time (even in small quantities).
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Santi Paradoa
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PopArchivist
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Santi Paradoa wrote:
| There still are new releases from time to time that have Target Exclusive CD versions with extra tracks. I would think every Target would have those available for a short period of time (even in small quantities). |
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Every time I come into my Target store their CD section is non-existent. I asked the store manager and he said it was a decision to eliminate CD's entirely since they were not selling...
Edited by PopArchivist on 16December2019 at 8:18pm
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EdisonLite
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What city are you in again? In L.A., all the Targets I've been in have a CD section; one near me is fairly decent size-wise, all things being relative.
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PopArchivist
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EdisonLite wrote:
| What city are you in again? In L.A., all the Targets I've been in have a CD section; one near me is fairly decent size-wise, all things being relative. |
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Upstate NY
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Loveland
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PopArchivist wrote:
| One of the main problems in the last few years is that huge hits like Old Town Road dont even appear on CD anymore (the original not the remix with Billy). I had to search to find Lil Nas and his released album digitally, there was no CD distribution of it. |
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You should change your username to HipHopArchivist. :P
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Hykker
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PopArchivist wrote:
Walmart has CDs but they are more
focused on Blu Rays and 4Ks. Target near me does not even
have CDs anymore.
As for Best Buy, most dont carry new CD's. FYE is the
only place I know that will have the new CD releases
here... |
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Walmarts around here have a handful of CDs, mostly
compilations like NOW, etc., an OK selection of DVDs,
about 50/50 between movies and tv show season sets, and a
LOT of video games. Don't know about blueray or
4K...don't have a player for either so they're not
something I'd browse.
Nearest Target or Best Buy is a 2 hour drive away, have
no idea where there'd be a Fye.
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PopArchivist
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Loveland wrote:
| You should change your username to HipHopArchivist. :P |
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I thought about Top40Archivist but Ed took the Top 40 name before I got here...
Edited by PopArchivist on 18December2019 at 9:47am
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PopArchivist
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Hykker wrote:
Nearest Target or Best Buy is a 2 hour drive away, have
no idea where there'd be a Fye.
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FYE is nice but it can't last too much longer. It diversified into all sorts of stuff to sell that includes cds and dvd/blu rays but I go there for very few discs anymore. Honest truth is that Discogs/Amazon/Ebay have more choices and more available that most of us here seek.
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Top 40 Hits still not on cd in the US
