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jimct
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| Posted: 12 November 2007 at 11:51am | IP Logged
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Both sides of my promo 45, and my promo CD single for this song (PRO-CD-3412) all have a listed time of (3:33), but all have an actual time of (3:29). I have no commercial single configuration at all for this. Can someone confirm that its length is the (3:55) length I see in my new Whitburn Pop Annual? I do give that time some credibility, since the LP Version in the database for it states a run time of (3:56).
Edited by jimct on 12 November 2007 at 11:51am
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jimct
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| Posted: 13 November 2007 at 5:12am | IP Logged
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Pat, thanks for entering all of the many new details I've posted. But you have inadvertently noted the actual promo 45/CD single time as (3:39) in the database. The time I indicated in my initial post was actually (3:29).
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jono
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| Posted: 13 November 2007 at 8:51am | IP Logged
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My commercial 45 of "It's No Secret" (Geffen 7-27651-A) states a time of 3:55 with a comment underneath the run time notating "LP Version" in parentheses. My actual timing of the 45 is indeed 3:55. It is a picture sleeve single, backed with the song entitled "Made In Heaven". I remember buying this off the shelves in 1988 or '89, while it was in the store's Top 40 section of (then) current singles.
Jon O.
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jimct
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| Posted: 13 November 2007 at 9:07am | IP Logged
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Jon, thanks for taking the time and trouble to both research and post those missing details, and welcome to the Board!
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jono
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| Posted: 13 November 2007 at 9:00pm | IP Logged
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Thanks, jimct. It's actually somewhat unusual for me to have a single past 1983, but for some reason I bought the three Kylie Minogue 1980's singles when they were released (and a few others from that time frame).
Glad I could contribute to the research, as I've been amazed at how much you've accomplished by doing this very same thing!
Jon O.
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Loveland
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| Posted: 04 September 2019 at 10:09pm | IP Logged
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The single version was dubbed 'Edit' by the Geffen Records. It's included on the U.S. promo CD single and promo vinyl single.
Inexplicably, the 'LP Version', specifically labeled as such by the label, is the mix included on all commercial configurations (vinyl single and cassette single).
According to Tom Parker. who has handled a lot of PWL reissues, the Edit included on the U.S. promo CD single was mastered incorrectly and it's wrongly pitched. However, I don't trust anything that comes out of his mouth. Ha ha. While everybody with an ear could tell Dead Or Alive's "Brand New Lover [Single Version]" was re-mastered at the wrong pitch on "That's The Way I Like It: The Best Of Dead Or Alive", he insisted it was the correct master. The mix is particularly unlistenable, it's way too slow. But don't take my word for it.
https://www.discogs.com/Dead-Or-Alive-Thats-The-Way-I-Like-I t-The-Best-Of-Dead-Or-Alive/release/2507232
The 'Edit' was first commercially released on the Japanese GH "Greatest Hits 87-97". Per the same individual, the mix included on this compilation is mastered the right way, at the correct pitch.
https://www.discogs.com/Kylie-Minogue-Greatest-Hits-87-97/re lease/974461
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aaronk
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| Posted: 04 September 2019 at 10:21pm | IP Logged
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Loveland wrote:
The single version was dubbed 'Edit' by the Geffen Records. It's included on the U.S. promo CD single and promo vinyl single.
Inexplicably, the 'LP Version', specifically labeled as such by the label, is the mix included on all commercial configurations (vinyl single and cassette single). |
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If the LP version is the mix included on all commercial singles, then how can the "Edit" be considered the single version?
I think what you mean here is that the "Edit" is the hit version that radio played. It is not, however, the single version.
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Aaron Kannowski
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Loveland
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| Posted: 04 September 2019 at 10:44pm | IP Logged
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aaronk wrote:
If the LP version is the mix included on all commercial singles, then how can the "Edit" be considered the single version?
I think what you mean here is that the "Edit" is the hit version that radio played. It is not, however, the single version. |
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I provided the full details of the single and anyone can choose how to label their files as they please. We had this discussion about this yesterday. Just because this board has an odd way to label single mixes (which is fine by me), it doesn't mean that everybody else is going to agree with such labeling. I do not mean the hit version, I mean it is the single version, as clearly indicated by the label. The mix included on the commercial single is clearly labeled the 'LP Version'. Which means, that is the Album Version. Geffen Records merely chose not to include the 'Edit' on the commercial single.
If you'd like to be technical, the promo CD single and promo vinyl single are still a "single", not an album.
Edited by Loveland on 04 September 2019 at 10:50pm
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aaronk
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| Posted: 04 September 2019 at 11:33pm | IP Logged
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Why is it odd? I'll try to explain it again in a different way.
Back when the 45 was the main single format, more often than not there was no specific version listed on the record label. The only way you knew what was on the record was by playing it. What Pat has done in his database is to sort out which CDs contain the version that is on the A-side of the single or the full-length LP. He does this by simply stating (45 version) or (LP version) next to the disc in the database. This is not him trying to rename a single mix. It's simply an indication to the user that the version on the CD is the same one that appears on the A-side of the commercial single.
If the database instead said (Edit) next to the CD title, how would the user know if that's the version that appears on the US vinyl 7" single? He wouldn't. He'd then have to do further research. The database simplifies this. You don't need to know the specific name of the mix. All you need to do is look at the designator, and if it says (45 version), you know that's the version from the A-side of the single. Many of us use "single version" (all lower case letters) as an extension of "45 version" because by the late '80s, the 45 was no longer the dominant format. If you see Single Version with capital letters, that means it's a specific mix as labeled by the record company.
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thecdguy
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| Posted: 05 September 2019 at 4:07am | IP Logged
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Well said, Aaron. I don't see what's so odd about it,
either. At least this way, someone can differentiate
between a version that appeared on a commercial single
and a promo single.
I do have to wonder though, why it seemed to be fairly
common in the 90's for promo versions to be labelled
"Single Version" when they weren't included on the
commercial single. That's where the confusion seems to
come in. I'm sure most people associate "Single
Version" with what was available commercially in
stores to be bought. I sometimes think that the label
of "Single Version" on these particular promos was
just automatically applied because the version was
shorter/edited. Maybe in some cases, they were the
versions that were meant to go on commercial copies,
but maybe someone at the label didn't take the time to
make sure it did. Yes, a promo single is still a
"single", but if it's different from what's on the
commercial single, it should be noted so that the
consumer knows what they're getting. I'm glad sites
like this exist so that we can sort out all the
confusion between the various versions of songs.
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Loveland
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| Posted: 05 September 2019 at 9:40am | IP Logged
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thecdguy wrote:
Well said, Aaron. I don't see what's so odd about it,
either. At least this way, someone can differentiate
between a version that appeared on a commercial single
and a promo single.
I do have to wonder though, why it seemed to be fairly
common in the 90's for promo versions to be labelled
"Single Version" when they weren't included on the
commercial single. That's where the confusion seems to
come in. I'm sure most people associate "Single
Version" with what was available commercially in
stores to be bought. I sometimes think that the label
of "Single Version" on these particular promos was
just automatically applied because the version was
shorter/edited. Maybe in some cases, they were the
versions that were meant to go on commercial copies,
but maybe someone at the label didn't take the time to
make sure it did. Yes, a promo single is still a
"single", but if it's different from what's on the
commercial single, it should be noted so that the
consumer knows what they're getting. I'm glad sites
like this exist so that we can sort out all the
confusion between the various versions of songs. |
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You can agree or disagree with me, I'm OK with that. I am not forcing down my "mix labeling system" on anyone. It appears to me that you guys are simply unwilling to entertain someone else's opinion on this very convoluted subject. All I'm saying is you shouldn't shoot down someone else's opinion simply because you disagree.
As I said before, as the 80s came to an end and during the 90s, record companies always seem to include the Album Version on commercial singles, even when a 'single version' was readily available. I'm positive this was done on purpose, just to kill the singles format.
And like I said, a single could be a promotional single or a commercial single. Either way, it's still a SINGLE. It seems to me that you guys consider a promotional single anything but a single.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 05 September 2019 at 11:28am | IP Logged
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With all due respect, I feel you are missing the point. This forum has never been about opinions. Haven't you noticed that we rarely (if ever) discuss topics that have to do with opinions? The only thing we care about are FACTS.
I agree with Dan (thecdguy) that it can be confusing for collectors when a reissue compilation labels something "Single Version" when 1) the version appearing on the actual commercial single is different, and 2) there is no corresponding version on any configuration, promo or otherwise, that uses "Single Version" as the name of the mix.
If anything is convoluted, it's the way record companies have chosen to label some of their mixes and versions. For us and for the database, it's simple:
A-side of commercial single = 45 version or single version
version appearing only on a promo = promo single version or DJ edit
If the record label has labeled something "Single Version," you'll notice we use capital letters to designate it.
The bottom line is this: most of us, as collectors, want to have the version that appeared on the A-side of the commercial single, so there needs to be a way to specify what that is even when the label has not given it a version designation (like often happened in the '60s, '70s, and early '80s). We call that the 45 version or single version. "Commercial" is assumed. When talking about something that appears on a promo, we always add "promo" or "DJ" to alert forum members that this is NOT what appears on the commercial single. I don't think I can explain it any better than that.
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Aaron Kannowski
Uptown Sound
91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Kylie Minogue-"It’s No Secret"
