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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 30 July 2008 at 6:05pm | IP Logged
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The actual commercial 45 run time of Paul Davis' "'65 Love Affair" is 3:39, not 3:31 as stated on the record label. (This info comes courtesy of abagon.)
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eric_a
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| Posted: 30 July 2008 at 7:17pm | IP Logged
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I have this song on at least one CD - a Columbia House compilation - where the fidelity is just poor, like the song was mastered on a cassette. No high end, no low-end. Was this a poor transfer, or does the original recording sound like this? If it's supposed to sound like this, is there a good story behind it?
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 21 January 2009 at 3:12pm | IP Logged
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I just listened to "'65 Love Affair" as it appears on Paul Davis' Sweet Life: His Greatest Hit Singles CD (Razor & Tie 82209) and his Cool Night disc (Era 5016) which both play at the slower LP pitch and speed. On these CDs, I do notice the song's high end sounds muddy and the overall sonics are dull and lack sparkle. But then I listened to "'65 Love Affair" on my Rock on 1982 various artist budget CD (Madacy Entertainment 1982) which plays at the faster 45 pitch and speed. Interestingly, the song's sound quality is clearly better on this CD with crisper highs than the Sweet Life and Cool Night discs. So I wonder if we're dealing with a situation here where for whatever reason the 45 production masters sound better than the LP masters?
Edited by Todd Ireland on 21 January 2009 at 3:25pm
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Jody Thornton
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| Posted: 21 January 2009 at 5:26pm | IP Logged
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I have the LP for "65 Love Affair" (don't remember the LP name) but it lacks a lot of bass on the track, although I find it punchier and more dynamic. The 45-rpm disc sounded more compressed but more rounded out in the bass, at least to my memory.
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mstgator
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| Posted: 17 June 2011 at 7:43pm | IP Logged
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The database shows that "Rock On 1982" contains the 45 pitch/length
(confirmed above by Todd). It also shows that "Rockin' 80s" contains the
LP pitch/length. I have both of these CDs, and while the song is longer on
"Rockin' 80s" (fades later), it sounds like the exact same pitch/speed as
the "Rock On 1982" version. Does anybody else have "Rockin' 80s" to
compare to my copy? (I don't have any of the other CDs that should have
the LP version to compare.)
Hmmm... something else odd I just noticed on the "Rockin 80s" track. At
:27 where he sings "Well I know I'd never let you go", the background
vocals are an awkward "aaahhh, oooooo" rather than the more natural-
sounding "oooooo, oooooo" at that point on the "Rock On 1982" version.
It's almost as if they pulled that one note from later in the song (when he
sings "know" at 3:04).
Edited by mstgator on 17 June 2011 at 7:44pm
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abagon
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| Posted: 18 June 2011 at 10:46am | IP Logged
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The actual LP running time is (3:52), the listed time is "3:46" on the LP record label. (LP title "Cool Night" Arista - AL 9578)
FYI. Actually, the speed differs in three seconds between the vinyl LP and the commercial 45.
On the 45, the very end word "rock" in the lyric "65 love affair rock and roll..." is at 3:38.
The same point on the LP is at 3:41.
--abagon
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 18 June 2011 at 11:52am | IP Logged
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mstgator - I don't have Rockin' 80s, but I compared the versions I do have. My versions don't have the different "aahh/oohh" distinction that you noted.
First, my Arista commercial 45 runs 3:39 and 156.8 BPM throughout (no drift). I still can't tell if it's a drum machine or a live drummer playing to a click track; either way, that's some weird-sounding drums.
The version on Madacy's Rock On 1982 (1996) runs a tiny bit (0.4%) slower than the 45 at 156.2 BPM, but matches the 45 fade points perfectly. It runs 3:40. To my ears, this version sounds a little odd, with a tiny degradation of the high end on the tail of the fade, and an unnatural lack of tape hiss on the fade. I suspect that it might be taken from a very clean vinyl 45 with just a little noise reduction applied, but I can't really tell. Either way, the 45 has a little more open-sounding high end than this disc.
The version on Razor & Tie's 2-CD Forever '80s (1994) runs longer than the 45 at 3:50. It's also the same pitch as the 45, running just 0.2% slower than the 45 at 156.4 BPM throughout. The fade starts in the same place as the 45, but is much longer. I didn't hear any mix differences between this and the 45 - same background vocal parts and all that.
The Forever '80s version is definitely from a tape source, although maybe not the lowest-generation tape source. It has no EQ changes on the fade, and fades to a pleasing tape hiss. I would assume that the fade extends out to the album length, although I don't know the true pitch of the album version.
There's a differently-EQ'd digital clone of Forever '80s on Time-Life's Sounds Of The Eighties Vol. 18 The Early '80s Take Two (1996) and on Time-Life's 2-CD Singers And Songwriters Vol. 7 1980-1982 (2000; digitally exactly 2.044 dB louder than Early '80s Take Two).
So it's safe to say that Rock On 1982 is "45 length and pitch" and that Forever '80s and the two Time-Life discs are "LP length and 45 pitch" until someone can confirm how fast the true LP runs.
Edited by crapfromthepast on 20 June 2011 at 6:47am
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 18 June 2011 at 2:22pm | IP Logged
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I've always found this recording to be very muffled, no matter what CD or vinyl. But luckily, it can be remastered well with a little TLC.
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 18 June 2011 at 2:26pm | IP Logged
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I just realized that by typing this post, I've now reached my 1000th post on this board - I don't know if I should feel good, bad (all that typing!) or just very old :)
Edited by EdisonLite on 19 June 2011 at 4:06pm
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Ringmaster_D
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| Posted: 03 October 2017 at 7:49am | IP Logged
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Following up on this very old thread... I'm wondering
what everyone's "go to" version of this song is. Do any
of the newer releases sound better? Is it best to just
take one of the better-sounding LP speed/length versions
and adjust time and length to match the 45? Will this
song ever sound good? :)
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 03 October 2017 at 9:36am | IP Logged
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I use Rock On 1982 for the 45 length, and the 2-CD Forever '80s for the LP length.
Note that both of these run essentially the same speed as the 45, as do the digital clones of Forever '80s and the Razor & Tie Paul Davis collection Sweet Life His Greatest Hit Singles (1999).
So far, I haven't seen any evidence that the LP really runs slower than the 45. I'll be happy to analyze a good needledrop of the LP version and post my findings here.
Edited by crapfromthepast on 03 October 2017 at 7:41pm
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crapfromthepast
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Just realized that I hadn't posted the speed of the Sweet Life disc - it's 156.4 BPM, just like Forever '80s. (Not the same analog transfer, though, and a bit more compressed/limited than Forever.)
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Ringmaster_D
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| Posted: 06 October 2017 at 10:37am | IP Logged
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I took a listen to the three copies of this tune that
Ron sent out and compared their frequencies. My
preference is Forever 80s which has slightly
more emphasis on the highs and lows than Rock
On.
Now Sweet Life is another story. Besides being
compressed to death, it also suffers from lack of high
frequencies (about 5-10 dB reduction) leaving the
track sounding muffled and unpleasant. Although this
song will never be a sonic marvel, perhaps it would be
a good candidate to see what life could be squeezed
out of the master tape for a future Hard To Find
volume. Calling Mark...
Edited by Ringmaster_D on 06 October 2017 at 10:39am
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 08 October 2017 at 1:54pm | IP Logged
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Yeah, I've found this song to be muffled on all CDs I have, so I remastered it to be much brighter. (However, I also add compression - I don't brickwall it like today's CDs - but it's got more compression than what I think most people on this board prefer). Still, it can be mastered to sound a lot clearer than the CDs out there. (And btw, I don't recall "Cool Night" and "Love Or Let Me Lonely", both top 40 hits from the same Paul Davis CD) to be nearly as muffled. Strange that whoever mastered the original album tapes made this song particularly muffled (maybe, since it reflects on the mid '60s, they were going from an AM transistor sound, like Rapsberries "Go All The Way").
I pulled it from the K-Tel release of the Paul Davis CD, added about 4 dB of bass, subtracted 2dB of Midrange (that's where the muffled quality really was), and added about 2.5 to 3 dB of treble.
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: "’65 Love Affair" - Paul Davis
