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PopArchivist
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| Posted: 27 February 2023 at 1:33pm | IP Logged
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A few questions
1) Why are the vocals from Eric on this so muffled. That risque a song in 1972?
2) The stereo sounds like mono - literally. No depth at all.
Is there any version with is actually stereo where the lyrics are clear outside the chorus?
Thanks in advance.
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AdvprosD
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| Posted: 27 February 2023 at 6:10pm | IP Logged
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Which ERIC release is it on?
Some of the HTFHOCD series has been remastered. Maybe a cleaner copy since the issue you have?
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Santi Paradoa
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| Posted: 27 February 2023 at 6:38pm | IP Logged
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I think the Eric that Rich is speaking of is the lead singer of the band (Eric Carmen).
As to why the song sounds the way it does (and is virtually mono) I have always felt it's thanks to their producer (Jimmy Ienner). Probably a good bet that Jimmy was mixing the record for AM radio and decided to go with a mix with little to no stereo
separation (even though it was 1972). More baffling is in the next five decades nobody ever went back to the original master tapes to remix the song into decent stereo. It may not matter which CD you have the song on since they all use the same
terrible mix (at least the ones I have listened to). Pat has properly listed every entry with "poor stereo separation."
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Paul C
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| Posted: 27 February 2023 at 7:18pm | IP Logged
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Both “Go All The Way” and its follow-up, “I Wanna Be With You“, were
intentionally mixed this way because the band and producer Jimmy
Ienner were aiming for a sound that would later be dubbed ‘power pop’.
Both sound fantastic on a transistor radio, but not so fantastic on
anything more sophisticated. The session tapes have apparently not
survived, so it looks like these mixes are the only ones we are ever
going to hear.
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PopArchivist
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| Posted: 28 February 2023 at 9:54am | IP Logged
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AdvprosD wrote:
Which ERIC release is it on?
Some of the HTFHOCD series has been remastered. Maybe a cleaner copy since the issue you have?
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Eric Carmen, not Eric records.
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 28 February 2023 at 11:42am | IP Logged
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What does an overdose of analog compression/limiting sound like? It sounds like "Go All The Way" by the Raspberries. I love it! It wouldn't have been a hit if it was mixed like Steely Dan. The song was also mixed in extremely narrow stereo, much like the Creedence Clearwater Revival records.
The mastering history is straightforward here.
The song turned up first (?) on JCI's Rockin' Seventies (1988). It sounds fine here.
There's a different analog transfer on Time-Life's Sounds Of The Seventies Vol. 3 1972 (1989). I prefer this over the JCI, because it has a teeny bit more high end in the EQ. The same analog transfer is used on:- Rhino's Poptopia! The '70s (1997) - digitally identical
- Time-Life's AM Gold Vol. 28 Teen Idols Of The '70s (1999) - differently EQ'd digital clone
The Raspberries 3" CD on Rhino and Razor & Tie's 2-CD Suddenly '70s (1997) seem to use different analog transfers of the same source tape as Sounds Of The Seventies Vol. 3 1972.
There's a new analog transfer on the Raspberries collection Capitol Collectors Series (1991). It sounds just fine here, too, with just a little less high end than the Time-Life mastering. The same analog transfer is used on:- Time-Life's Guitar Rock Vol. 11 The Early '70s (1994) - digitally exactly 0.6 dB louder
- Raspberries Greatest Hits (1995) - digitally identical
- Priority's I Love Rock And Roll Vol. 3 Hits Of The 70's (1996) - digitally exactly 2.14 dB quieter
- Time-Life's 2-CD Seventies Music Explosion Vol. 4 Magic (2005) - digitally exactly 0.39 dB quieter
Realistically, there's not a lot of difference between Sounds Of The Seventies Vol. 3 1972 (mastered by Ken Perry, project overseen by Bill Inglot) and Capitol Collectors Series (mastered by Kevin Reeves). I chose Capitol Collectors Series (1991) for my collection, but either one would work just fine.
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 28 February 2023 at 1:43pm | IP Logged
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After a top of the hour ID, this song certainly jumped out
of the radio.
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C J Brown
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| Posted: 28 February 2023 at 7:15pm | IP Logged
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CKLW demonstrated what John Gallagher mentions above many
times during the hit run.
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VWestlife
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| Posted: 05 March 2023 at 9:03pm | IP Logged
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I can't find it anymore, but there was an article about how when the band first recorded the song, they didn't think it was usable because the drumming was too wimpy-sounding. But then they ran it through a very aggressive limiter, which they called the "Oscar Mayer" limiter, because any audio put through it had its dynamics squashed as flat as a slice of bologna. When they did, it suddenly sounded like a hit to them -- and it was.
The only part of the song that is actually true stereo are the vocal ad-libs during the intro, which may have been dubbed in later. The rest of the song is mono with a bit of stereo reverb added, and run through that Oscar Mayer limiter with slightly different time constants on the left and right channels, causing the balance to wander side to side.
I've tried widening the stereo image, but instead of revealing any true separation between the channels, it just makes the balance wandering even worse.
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 11 March 2023 at 2:37pm | IP Logged
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I tried widening the stereo image, too, and got the same results as you. But I
never heard about the master tapes being lost. They wouldn't have been in the
Universal fire of 2007-ish, because EMI/Capitol hadn't yet been bought by
Universal at the time of the fire. And Raspberries were on Capitol.
Also, I knew about Go All the Way being virtually mono, but I didn't realize that
about I Wanna Be With You. Is that really the case, and is the LP version any
wider?
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Santi Paradoa
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| Posted: 11 March 2023 at 4:00pm | IP Logged
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I'm no expert on where the Raspberries' tapes were stored or kept, but once CD reissues started to happen (late 80s/early 90s) there had to be several opportunities to use those tapes to create new and improved stereo mixes for those early mixes that
were virtually mono. If the tapes were later lost, stolen, burned, thrown out, etc. then yes there is no way to make that happen any longer (plus is there anyone else left that would care and/or want to purchase those new remixes besides the few
collectors like us). If there was an opportunity decades ago to use those tapes it just never happened. It may very well be that Jimmy, Eric or someone else did not want to change history even if it meant improving the sound of the song(s). We may
never know if they had approval or veto power over a possible stereo remix for the song(s) as the CD reissues got released decades ago.
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MMathews
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| Posted: 20 November 2023 at 10:22pm | IP Logged
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Ron Furmanek produced the Capitol Collector's Series and
he was in those vaults. And trust me, if there were any
multi-tracks to find, he surely looked and didn't find
anything. I can bet money he looked, and looked hard. I
know him well.
Now, as per the discussion about the poor stereo mix.
Some folks may enjoy this digitally extracted remix for
"Go All The Way" ... my friend Bob Zwolinski made this
remix:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa1ZUDtT4fc
It is wider stereo but a more stable and uniform mix.
The wandering vocals are fixed and are easier to hear.
Drums and guitars are separated left/right.
Enjoy!
-Mark M
Edited by MMathews on 20 November 2023 at 10:23pm
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C J Brown
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| Posted: 21 November 2023 at 5:18pm | IP Logged
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Wow. How soon can we hear "I Wanna Be With You"? ?
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 25 November 2023 at 2:22am | IP Logged
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He did a nice job!
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Topic: Raspberries - Go All The Way
