| Author |
|
sriv94
MusicFan
Joined: 16 September 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1457
|
| Posted: 05 February 2014 at 6:42pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Hi folks. I have this song on Class Reunion 1971
running (4:28). I also on iTunes see a version that runs
(3:55) but sounds like a completely different recording.
Discogs shows the 45 running (4:25). Is it safe to say
that the CR1971 disc has the correct 45 version?
__________________
Doug
---------------
All of the good signatures have been taken.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
jimct
MusicFan
Joined: 07 April 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3906
|
| Posted: 06 February 2014 at 7:02am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Doug, I only own a 1971 promo 45 copy for this #76 peaker, during the
summer of 1971. Great song. Confirmed as Mercury 73208, one side is
the "Edited Mono Version", while the other side is "Edited Stereo Version".
Both sides have a listed time of (4:25), and an actual time of (4:23). (I
don't know whether the 1971 stock copy was released in mono or stereo,
but I'd guess mono.)
To me, it looks like the U.S. 45 copy you saw on Discogs, Doug, was
actually a May 1978 45 re-release, on Mercury 74016. Surely stereo for
this release, this later issue was 100% prompted by Chuck's huge spring
1978 hit song over on A&M, "Feels So Good", as a "from the vaults"
attempt to cash in on his newfound success. This listed (4:25) timing is
identical to the 1971 Mercury 45, and it's highly unlikely Mercury changed
anything in 1978, since a high-quality, stereo single master already
existed, thanks to the 1971 promo.
I also own the version of this song appearing on that "Class
Reunion '71" CD. I am happy to report that the versions are identical,
*except* that the 45 is slightly sped up. If you have the ability to convert
your CD's audio to run exactly (4:23), you'll then have an exact 45 match.
Finally, I have no evidence of there ever being a legitimate, original
charted recording of this song that ran (3:55), Doug, so I 100% concur
with your conclusion on that version.
Edited by jimct on 06 February 2014 at 7:05am
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
sriv94
MusicFan
Joined: 16 September 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1457
|
| Posted: 06 February 2014 at 10:23am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Thanks, Jim. Discogs also has a 1971 single with the Mercury 73208 catalog number, but no label image (and it's also listed as the B-side of "Friends and Love"--this should probably be reversed).
And with WavePad, I can speed it up a bit. :)
It seems the (3:55) version was an edit of a rerecording made for Mangione's "Tarantella" album.
Edited by sriv94 on 06 February 2014 at 10:23am
__________________
Doug
---------------
All of the good signatures have been taken.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Yah Shure
MusicFan
Joined: 11 December 2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1317
|
| Posted: 06 February 2014 at 4:32pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I have both the DJ and stock 45s; together, they provide the clues for what may have been the result of an eleventh-hour decision at Mercury and a mastering engineer who was still a pot of coffee short of being up to a full 45 RPM, so to speak.
The matrix numbers on the stock 45 are 1-48651 on "Hill" and 1-48650 on the B-side, "Friends & Love," which was edited to 3:30 from the 24:45 LP version. The "1" prefixes on the matrix numbers would be consistent with a mono Mercury cutting of that era. The mono side of the "Hill" DJ 45 has the same matrix number as the stock's label; the DJ's stereo side lists 2-48651, which is consistent with a stereo Mercury cutting, with the "2" prefix signifying stereo.
The 11th-hour decision is pure speculation on my part, but Mercury may have opted to flip the record's initially-intended A-side ("Friends & Love") in favor of "Hill." This would explain "Hill"'s higher matrix number. Simple enough, right?
It's the deadwax matrices where that lack of coffee comes into play:
"Friends & Love" stock:
* 48651-1-1-1 (stricken, with lines drawn through)
* 48650-1-1-1 (faint)
"Hill" mono DJ side:
* 46850-1 ("X"ed out, the "6" and "8" had been inverted in error)
* 48650-1 1-1 (all but the "1-1" stricken out)
* 48651-1-1 (faint, etched in ahead of the previous two)
"Hill" stereo DJ side:
* 2-48650-1 (stricken out)
* 48651-1-111 (last four digits very faint. These numbers were actually overwritten on top of some very faint other numbers, which could have been either a "1" or "2" -48651; the prefix number is too vague to determine precisely, even under a magnifying glass.)
Recap: the "final" matrix number on the "Hill" DJ stereo side would indicate that it was a mono cutting, but it actually does play stereo. This side's numbers are identical to the stock's deadwax, and I can confirm that the stock also plays stereo. Meanwhile, the demoted "Friends" side of the stock actually does play mono, just as the final deadwax matrix and the label matrix number would indicate. After all the matrix mauling, I would not have been shocked if it had played the 24:45 LP version. ;)
One more thing: there isn't a whole lot of room for all those deadwax revisions, since the playing area extends *very* close to the label. Had "Hill" ever proven to be a bigger hit, jukebox operators would've been less than pleased by the inevitable complaints that the record tripped the change mechanism before the song had ended.
Whew!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
sriv94
MusicFan
Joined: 16 September 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1457
|
| Posted: 21 March 2017 at 5:20pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Ok, another one along the (sort of) same lines. The B-side of the 1978 rerelease (Mercury 74016) has an edited version of "Land of Make
Believe." What I don't know is where that edit comes from.
There was an LP released in 1975 called Encore - The Chuck Mangione Concerts (Mercury 1050) that has a version listed as running
(3:47), which reasonably jibes with the 45's listed run time of (3:45). Whether that's an actual edit of the original 1973 concert
recording or an edit of this version, I do not know.
Can anyone unscramble the details?
Edited by sriv94 on 21 March 2017 at 6:10pm
__________________
Doug
---------------
All of the good signatures have been taken.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Yah Shure
MusicFan
Joined: 11 December 2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1317
|
| Posted: 21 March 2017 at 7:42pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Doug, From what I can tell, "Land Of Make Believe" was first issued on the 1973 Mercury 73432 45, but I don't have a copy of either that one or Mercury 74016 to confirm the stated times. Although it would eventually chart as an "A" side on Mercury 73920 in 1977, there was yet another reissue preceding that one: Mercury 73635 ("As Long As We're Together," listed 3:20 / "LOMB" (listed 3:47), which crossed my desk in October, 1974.
Interestingly enough, Mercury sent a stock copy of the latter 45 (identical to the DJ 45), and inside the sleeve was a four-page press release, featuring facsimiles of blurbs from Downbeat, the Denver Post and Beetle. Both sides were edits of the longer cuts from the LOMB LP. The cover letter was from Mercury's National promotion department, and read as follows:
"AS LONG AS WE'RE TOGETHER"
CHUCK MANGIONE
73635
"As Long As We're Together" by Chuck Mangione featuring the vocals of Esther Satterfield is breaking the Chuck Mangione album, "Land Of Make Believe" all over again.
With LP sales at 70,000 and strong new action in Philadelphia, New York, Los Angeles and the Northwest, "Land Of Make Believe" has jumped back on the Billboard and Record World jazz charts, though it's been over a year since the original release of the album.
We've reserviced the album to promote further action, and we've coupled this new single from the album to feature the two most popular cuts--featuring Esther Satterfield.
Chuck Mangione has written the often-recorded classics "Legend Of The One-Eyed Sailor" and "Hill Where The Lord Hides." The new Mangione single contains two of his best compositions with the added pop element of the Satterfield vocals--the combination that has proved to gather top requests off FM rock and jazz stations.
National Promotion
Phonogram/Mercury
"As Long As We're Together (the "A" side) had been previously issued as Mercury 73453 in 1973, backed with an edit of the aforementioned "Legend Of A One-Eyed Sailor." Neither side of that DJ 45 had been marked as the plug side.
You can't fault Mercury for believing in the record, even if they weren't able to break it out. But boy, what a scrambled mess they left for the kitchen cleanup crew!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
|
|
Active Topics 
Memberlist 
Search 
Help
Register 
Login
Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: "Hill Where The Lord Hides" - C. Mangione
