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edtop40
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Posted: 26 November 2011 at 7:26pm \| IP Logged

my commercial 45 for the jacksons song "turture" issued as
epic 04575 states the run time on the label as 4:30 but
actually only runs 4:23 and is an edit of the full length
4:53 cd/lp version....this 45 run time info s/b added to
the db.....thx aaron for re-creating the 45 version for me
years ago......THANKS!!...

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waldo
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Posted: 26 November 2011 at 8:52pm \| IP Logged

the Torture 45 exists on several compilation CD's.

what LP version did you use? TWO different 4:53 album versions exist. both were pressed on cassette/vinyl and even CD.

one has Jackie Jackson ad-libbing towards the end. one does not.

the 45 has the ad-libs.

edtop40
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Posted: 26 November 2011 at 10:21pm \| IP Logged

the db doesn't state that any of the domestic cd's have the
45 version.....where did you find the 45 version on
cd?......on what import?...the board would love to know....

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Todd Ireland
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Posted: 26 November 2011 at 11:00pm \| IP Logged

Yes, I'd also be interested to know which LP version of "Torture" is on each database CD? Based on waldo's description, it sounds like my pressing of the Jacksons' Victory CD (Epic 38946) contains the LP version with Jackie Jackson's ad-libbed vocals toward the end.

waldo
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Posted: 27 November 2011 at 12:17am \| IP Logged

this CD has the Torture single..

Various – Good Times - 80s Dance Classics

Edited by waldo on 27 November 2011 at 12:56am

waldo
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Posted: 27 November 2011 at 12:19am \| IP Logged

i was told this one too ??

Various – Back To The 80's - Volume 3

Volume 1 in this series has the State Of Shock single

Various – Back To The 80's

Edited by waldo on 27 November 2011 at 1:02am

waldo
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Posted: 27 November 2011 at 12:22am \| IP Logged

i have this one..

Jacksons, The – The Very Best Of The Jacksons

be careful there are TWO different versions of this compilation.. one with single edits and one with album versions..

Album versions

Edited by waldo on 27 November 2011 at 12:59am

waldo
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Posted: 27 November 2011 at 12:51am \| IP Logged

Todd Ireland wrote:

i've never come across a USA cd pressing without Jackie Jackson's ad-libs at the end. i have two different European CD's with and without the ad-libs and a Japanese without too.

Edited by waldo on 27 November 2011 at 1:09am

Pat Downey
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Posted: 27 November 2011 at 8:01pm \| IP Logged

All cd's in the database are identical with Jackie Jackson at the end. I think Waldo is confusing the issue by citing import cd's that may have a different version. I am not aware of two different cd domestic pressings of "Victory" - if anyone has a domestic matrix number of "Victory" that includes the 45 version of "Torture" please pass that information along so I can track down a copy.

waldo
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Posted: 28 November 2011 at 3:29am \| IP Logged

right! i don't think there are two different USA pressings of the Victory CD. only UK and Japan.

45 version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VX6BJeVnfI

LP version - without ad libs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-dWI-Gn1u4

LP version - with ad libs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQn3TVdt-mg

Edited by waldo on 28 November 2011 at 3:37am

aaronk
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Posted: 28 November 2011 at 5:35pm \| IP Logged

I can say with certainty that two US CD pressings exist, because the copy I
used as my source did NOT have the ad libs at the end. I had to splice on
the last part from vinyl and didn't even know there was a CD copy with the
ad libs.

I'll try to ask my friend who owns the CD (an original, first pressing) if he can
supply the matrix number.

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waldo
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Posted: 28 November 2011 at 8:47pm \| IP Logged

aaronk wrote:

interesting, i'll pull my US copy out and double check.. i've recently got this US Triple Pack too.. haven't opened it yet.

http://www.amazon.com/Triple-Feature-Jacksons/dp/B0047MX5S6/ ref=sr_1_5?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1322538602&sr=1-5

Edited by waldo on 28 November 2011 at 8:53pm

PaulEschen
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Posted: 18 April 2012 at 3:24pm \| IP Logged

Just as a side note, the Australian CD version of Victory (Epic
CDEPC86303) has the version WITHOUT Jackie ad-libbing. This is true of the
track on the US I-Tunes version of the Jacksons album as well. Also, does
the version of "Torture" on The Very Best Of The Jacksons with the
single edits match the US 45 version?

Edited by PaulEschen on 18 April 2012 at 3:47pm

waldo
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Posted: 01 November 2012 at 10:00am \| IP Logged

Torture 12" FIRST time on CD..

have ordered it.. hope it's not a needle drop. timing on
the label was always 6:15.

http://www.discogs.com/Various-Dance-Classics-Pop-Edition-
Vol-8/release/3981230

Edited by waldo on 01 November 2012 at 10:03am

aaronk
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Posted: 01 November 2012 at 11:58am \| IP Logged

I'm glad this came back up, because the database currently does not note that there are two different LP versions--one with and one without the ad-libs at the end. I forgot about obtaining the matrix number of the "Victory" CD without the ad-libs, but it does exist. My friend who owns it bought it when it was first released back in the mid-80s.

Does anyone own the vinyl LP that does not have the ad-libs?

Also, where do the ad-libs start on this version? On the 45, they start 30 seconds before the tail end of the fade. On the 12" single, they start 59 seconds before the end of the fade.

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budaniel
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Posted: 01 November 2012 at 1:25pm \| IP Logged

The Dance Classics series by Rodeo Media is mastered from vinyl (and I assume from CD in cases where songs are available on CD). But they sound quality is absolutely fantastic. No dirty records used on the series.

80smusicfreak
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Posted: 01 November 2012 at 3:27pm \| IP Logged

aaronk is correct; the first pressings of the
Victory CD made for the U.S. market on Epic EK
38946 DO NOT contain Jackie Jackson's ad-libs at the end
of "Torture". In fact, I have one right here in front of
me as I type this (found it while out on my record-store
travels about six months ago)...

What's key to remember here is where the CD format was at
when this album first came out - i.e., its infancy. The
vinyl LP & cassette of Victory were released
simultaneously here in the U.S. in early July of '84
(bought the cassette version myself at that time); those
first presings DID NOT contain the ad-libs on "Torture".
Of course, being the superstar act that they were, it was
a no-brainer that Epic/CBS wanted to release the album on
the fledgling CD as well. However, because the digital
format was still so young (barely a year on the U.S.
market, at that point), and w/ no CD pressing plants here
in the U.S. (yet), like w/ all other new titles being
released on CD in '84, the CD version of Victory
didn't hit store shelves until about 4-6 weeks AFTER the
LP & cassette, probably sometime in August. Epic/CBS
hadn't yet put the ad-lib version of "Torture" on the
album, so those first pressings of the CD don't have the
ad-libs, either. I don't know exactly when Epic/CBS made
the changeover to the ad-lib version, but I'm guessing it
was in either 1985 or '86, and of course, it was made to
all three formats...

Prior to the summer of '85 (i.e., the first full two
years that CDs were available on the U.S. market) - which
is when the first U.S. CD pressing plant opened - we
Americans relied primarily on Japan & West Germany for
manufacturing our CDs. And in the case of CBS, they used
only Japan. Therefore, if you want the U.S. CD version of
Victory WITHOUT the ad-libs, you'll need to find
one of those first Japan-for-U.S. pressings. Now, do the
first U.S.-for-U.S. pressings (which would've been
manufactured by DADC) made in 1985 or '86 contain the
version of "Torture" w/o the ad-libs??? I don't know, but
I seriously doubt it. I realize waldo is in the U.K., so
I don't expect him to know all of this, but this would
explain why he hasn't seen a U.S. pressing of
Victory w/o the ad-libs, as this is where things
get a bit technical (since the first U.S. CDs actually
say "MANUFACTURED IN JAPAN" on them). This logic also
applies when attempting to track down first pressings of
such CDs as Whitney Houston's 1985 s/t debut and Heart's
s/t album on Capitol from '85, among others (both of
which also contain different versions of some of their
hits)...

Anyway, my copy happens to be one of those first Japan-
for-U.S. pressings, which is also marked by having a
smooth-edged jewel case (vs. ribbed). "Torture" runs
(4:52) on my copy. So yes, Pat will indeed need to update
the database for this one...

Oh, and for aaronk, Pat, waldo, or anyone else who wants
one of these first CD pressings of Victory made
for the U.S. market w/o the ad-libs on "Torture", there
are actually no less than THREE copies currently listed
on eBay:

1) from seller "echobunny2000" (item #300796784707)
($14.00 + shipping)
2) from seller "mjawrp" (item #290782730253) ($17.99,
inc. shipping)
3) from seller "jankuffo" (item #150895316808) (roughly
$21.00 + shipping)

I've bought from "echobunny2000" in the past, w/ no
problems. In fact, the various pictures in his listing do
a great job of explaining what I mean about the key
details to look for when attempting to identify one of
these early pressings. Oh, and even though "jankuffo" is
located in the Netherlands, his copy is indeed a Japan-
for-U.S. pressing, as he describes (can tell from his
pics). And for those who also insist on a matrix no. (or
two), note that "echobunny2000" states that his is "35
8P-50 31A5"; mine is "35 8P-50 31A1"...

Good luck, and this concludes today's lesson, lol... :-)

waldo
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Posted: 01 November 2012 at 4:44pm \| IP Logged

thanks aaronk and 80smusicfreak for confirming that US
copies w and w/o the ad-libs exist.

thanks budaniel for letting me know about Rodeo Media

budaniel
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Posted: 15 November 2012 at 8:16pm \| IP Logged

Hey waldo,

don't know if you got your copy of Dance Classics yet, but I received mine, and I noticed that torture is faded about 10 seconds earlier than it is on my 12" vinyl single. There are about three bars of music missing from the fade.

Fetta
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Posted: 25 May 2013 at 12:03pm \| IP Logged

waldo wrote:

Does anyone know how to tell the difference between these two versions of "The Very Best Of The Jacksons"?
For some reason, I thought that the Australian version was the one with the 45 mixes on it (specifically State of Shock and Torture) and of course, $30 later (and a long ship time from Australia), I get my copy and it has all Album versions.
Would love some insight on how to tell the difference between the one with Album versions and the one with 45 versions.

Thanks all!

-Jeff

Edited by Fetta on 25 May 2013 at 12:03pm

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