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Subject Topic: Small Faces - Itchycoo Park Post ReplyPost New Topic
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MMathews
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Posted: 13 September 2015 at 3:45am | IP Logged Quote MMathews
I was asked to compare the common stereo version with a
45 dub. Turns out the stereo LP version and mono 45
versions are not the same, the 45 is quite a different
mix.
I discovered these differences:

    -The 45 has reverb on the vocals not present in the
    stereo
    -The flanging effect at :50 and then again at :1:49 is
    very different on the 45. They "phase" at different
    points.
    -On the 45 there is a loud tambourine that starts at 1:08
    and plays until 1:34. It comes back at 2:24. The LP
    version has no tambourine at all.
    -Finally, the 45 has a false fade from 2:27 - 2:34. The
    LP version has a much shorter false fade from 2:37 to
    2:40.

I assume the few mono entries in the database are the 45
version, but only if they match this description.
MM

Edited by MMathews on 13 September 2015 at 3:46am
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sriv94
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Posted: 14 September 2015 at 1:14pm | IP Logged Quote sriv94
Is there a speed difference as well?

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The Hits Man
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Posted: 14 September 2015 at 9:08pm | IP Logged Quote The Hits Man
MMathews wrote:

-On the 45 there is a loud tambourine that starts at 1:08
and plays until 1:34. It comes back at 2:24. The LP
version has no tambourine at all.


I have the Press (45 PRE 60002) mono 45 with the pink
label, and I do not hear a tambourine anywhere on it.

One more difference is that there is an effect on the hi-
hat on the mono mix.

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MMathews
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Posted: 14 September 2015 at 9:50pm | IP Logged Quote MMathews
To answer Doug's Q, yes, I just sync'd them and the 45
plays at a slower speed.

For Hits Man, I put the 45's away but I'll pull them
tomorrow and write down the dead-wax info. I have a
styrene pressing that had good, clean sound and I also
had a vinyl pressing that sounded terrible, pressed on
re-grind.

The tambourine hits once on each snare beat if that
helps.

One more difference I noticed today is the mono mix has
extra vocal overdubs in the end choruses, and there are
vocal ad-libs starting at 2:30 in the 45 (between the
lines "it's all too beautiful") that do not appear in the
LP mix.
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TomDiehl1
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Posted: 15 September 2015 at 3:47am | IP Logged Quote TomDiehl1
The Hits Man wrote:
MMathews wrote:

-On the 45 there is a loud tambourine that starts at
1:08
and plays until 1:34. It comes back at 2:24. The LP
version has no tambourine at all.


I have the Press (45 PRE 60002) mono 45 with the pink
label, and I do not hear a tambourine anywhere on it.

One more difference is that there is an effect on the
hi-
hat on the mono mix.



I'd be a bit cautious if your copy of Itchycoo Park is
on Press 60002. It should be on Immediate ZS7 501.

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MMathews
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Posted: 17 September 2015 at 4:49pm | IP Logged Quote MMathews
Oh, I overlooked the "Press 60002" .. Tom is correct, the
actual US 45 is Immediate ZS7 501.
Just to be complete, my deadwax info is:
Styrene: AK ZS 7-501-1
Vinyl: ZS7-501-1-1C

The actual 45 time is (2:44)

MM

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Yah Shure
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Posted: 17 September 2015 at 6:59pm | IP Logged Quote Yah Shure
Mark, thanks for posting your findings. I'll just add that the listed time on the jacket of my vinyl copy of the U.S. Immediate 52002 There Are But Four Small Faces LP ia 2:44, but the actual time is 2:49.

Mark's "sounds terrible/regrind" vinyl 45 description very likely points to a counterfeit. If the all-caps notation directly below the bold "45 RPM SIDE 1" on the right side of the Immediate 501 label that reads "DISTRIBUTED BY CBS RECORDS CBS, INC. 51 WEST 52 STREET, NEW YORK CITY" happens to be missing, that's also a red flag. Even after Immediate's demise, U.S. CBS retained the rights to the song, eventually reissuing it - original B-side intact - on Epic's Memory Lane imprint.

As for the 45's deadwax matrix numbers, they definitely do vary. My reservice promo 45 with "Itchycoo" on both sides (a Pitman pressing) are "ZS7-501 1-1C" (machine stamped) on one side and a handwritten "2" followed by machine-stamped "AF-ZS7-501-1" on the other. My Terre Haute stock 45 shows "AD-ZS7-501-1".

If Grant's copy of "Itchycoo Park" really is on Press 60002, that's absolutely a counterfeit, since Small Faces were already long gone from the Press label before "Itcyhcoo" was even recorded. If it also happens to have Los Bravos' "Black Is Black" (the real Press 60002) on the other side, that would explain why the tambourine is missing. ;)   

Edited by Yah Shure on 17 September 2015 at 7:02pm
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The Hits Man
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Posted: 17 September 2015 at 10:28pm | IP Logged Quote The Hits Man
MMathews wrote:
To answer Doug's Q, yes, I just sync'd
them and the 45
plays at a slower speed.

For Hits Man, I put the 45's away but I'll pull them
tomorrow and write down the dead-wax info. I have a
styrene pressing that had good, clean sound and I also
had a vinyl pressing that sounded terrible, pressed on
re-grind.

The tambourine hits once on each snare beat if that
helps.

One more difference I noticed today is the mono mix has
extra vocal overdubs in the end choruses, and there are
vocal ad-libs starting at 2:30 in the 45 (between the
lines "it's all too beautiful") that do not appear in
the
LP mix.


My apologies to Mark, Tom, and all others: Never mind.
I was referencing the wrong song!

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eriejwg
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Posted: 10 January 2017 at 1:44pm | IP Logged Quote eriejwg
It's not listed in the database, but I have "Itchykoo
Park" in mono on the Small Faces (Deluxe Edition).
Everything that Mark M. mentions on the 45
(tambourine, false fade from 2:27-2:34) is on my file.

I'm guessing this is the 45 version.
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The Hits Man
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Posted: 12 January 2017 at 11:32am | IP Logged Quote The Hits Man
I just pulled out my mono Immediate 45, and it does run a
tad slower than the stereo mix.

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