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80smusicfreak
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| Posted: 23 April 2016 at 4:37pm | IP Logged
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It seems that no one here has ever analyzed this one before, but there evidently is a 45/LP version difference for "I Wanna Hear it from Your Lips"...
When the song's original parent album, simply titled Eric Carmen, was first released in January of '85, it was issued here in the U.S. on vinyl LP & cassette only - there was no CD. (The album never really took off, and because CDs were still less than 10% of the market at the time, they didn't bother putting it out in the digital format. I bought the cassette myself...)
Finally, in 1997, Geffen issued it on CD for the first time as part of its budget "Geffen Goldline" series; that re-issue was identical to the original vinyl LP & cassette (i.e., no bonus tracks). However, it didn't remain in print very long, and because the CD sold so few in number (after all, the album was already more than 12 years old at that point), it has been in high demand, w/ used copies still going for about $40-$50! I'd been wanting that re-issue for several years now, but the high price tag has always held me back...
Well, yesterday (Friday), the album was re-issued on CD again for only the second time here in the U.S., on Varese Sarabande 30206740684. I'm seriously considering buying this one instead, as this new edition also includes - as a bonus track - the "single mix by Don Gehman" of "I Wanna Hear it from Your Lips" (track 11). Page for the CD on VS's official web site, complete w/ cover photo & track listing: ERIC CARMEN - "Eric Carmen" (new U.S. CD) Although I've never owned the 45 myself, sure enough, a check of this one over at 45cat here does reveal that the label states, "Re-mixed by Don Gehman", w/ a printed time of "3:12"...
According to Pat's on-line db, "I Wanna Hear it from Your Lips" has appeared on only two other U.S. CDs to date: the aforementioned 1997 re-issue of the Eric Carmen album on Geffen 24042, where it runs (3:13) and is presumably the LP version, and on the 1998 V/A compilation titled The Lost 45's of the '70s & '80s (Varese Vintage 5955), where the song interestingly clocks in :02 longer, at (3:15). Could that be the 45 version??? Any of the "45 experts" here care to detail the 45/LP differences??? :-)
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Santi Paradoa
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| Posted: 25 April 2016 at 9:37am | IP Logged
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BTW, that brand new CD release on Varese Sarabande also has another bonus track as they included the 12" version of "I Wanna Hear It From Your Lips." I haven't heard this disc yet so stay tuned.
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Santi Paradoa
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 25 April 2016 at 12:02pm | IP Logged
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Wow, that's great about the 12" of "I Wanna Hear It..." I'd seen that the bonuses were only to consist of one song, and it wasn't the 12".
And btw, I did buy this Geffen album on CD in '85. True, it didn't come out in the US on CD until '97, but I found the Japanese import CD of it in '85 at Tower Records/DC and bought it immediately (about 3 months before I had a CD player.) I knew I'd eventually be getting a player, and didn't know if I'd ever see this import CD at Tower when I went back the next time, so I bought it then and there, because I already had the LP, and it was my favorite of Eric's output (well, tied with the 1st Arista album.)
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 25 April 2016 at 12:07pm | IP Logged
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The Varese link given above only shows 1 bonus track - the single mix - not 2 bonus tracks and not the 12". Are you sure the 12" mix is on it? I'm guessing you saw another tracklist elsewhere, but I'd think Varese Sarabande's website would be more accurate than other ones, since this is the label that released it.
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 25 April 2016 at 12:09pm | IP Logged
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BTW, I saw the video of "I Wanna Hear It..." on VH-1 (actually both versions of the video) and never recalled it sounding any different than the album mix. So, the changes could be subtle, or the video used the album mix.
If the video did use the single mix, I can say it's not a radical remix, like we've seen in the cases of many other single mixes.
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edtop40
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| Posted: 25 April 2016 at 3:22pm | IP Logged
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i just a/b'ed my commercial 45 versus the cd version from
'lost 45's of the 70's & 80's' and they are
identical.....both run 3:15 even though the vinyl 45's
label states the run time as 3:12......i can't speak for
the 3:12 cd version but the vinyl 45 def runs 3:15....
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Santi Paradoa
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| Posted: 25 April 2016 at 6:49pm | IP Logged
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Ed:
Does the commercial 45 immediately start with Eric singing "I hear it from my friends" or does his vocal start about eight seconds later? Does the commercial 45 say anywhere on it "single mix by Don Gehman?"
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Santi Paradoa
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Santi Paradoa
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| Posted: 25 April 2016 at 6:54pm | IP Logged
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Gordon:
The actual Varese Sarabande CD has a dozen tracks (including the two bonus tracks tacked to the end). Yes their website doesn't show that (neither does Amazon US).
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Santi Paradoa
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995wlol
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| Posted: 26 April 2016 at 8:53am | IP Logged
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Santi Paradoa wrote:
Ed:
Does the commercial 45 immediately start with Eric
singing "I hear it from my friends" or does his vocal
start about eight seconds later? |
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I can confirm the version on 'Lost 45's of the 70's &
80's' begins immediately with the "I hear it from my
friends" vocal.
Does the LP version have an instrumental intro?
Edited by 995wlol on 26 April 2016 at 8:54am
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Santi Paradoa
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| Posted: 26 April 2016 at 11:06am | IP Logged
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Here is what I have been able to figure out so far with the help of Mark Mathews. The commercial 45 matches the version on the Barry Scott's Lost 45s of the 70s & 80s CD from a couple of decades ago. This new release has three different versions of this song. Track one is the LP version (which matches the 45 as well). The first bonus track (labeled single remix by Don Gehman) is track eleven and is indeed a remix. The question now becomes was this remix ever issued before and if so when and where. The second bonus track (track twelve) is the 12" version which is the remix by John "Jellybean" Benitez that was issued back in the day.
The short story is the LP version and the commercial 45 are one in the same (and not a remix even though the 45 label states so). Could it be possible that there were two different pressings of this single (one with the remix and one without)?
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Santi Paradoa
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995wlol
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| Posted: 26 April 2016 at 12:50pm | IP Logged
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EdisonLite wrote:
I found the Japanese import CD of it
in '85 at Tower Records/DC |
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EdisonLite, what is the label/catalog number of your
Japanse CD--it must be rare, it is not even listed in
Discogs.
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jimct
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| Posted: 26 April 2016 at 3:17pm | IP Logged
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Every Geffen 29118 U.S. stock or promo 45 that I've either owned or seen
includes the Don Gehman remix. I just pulled my promo 45, and both
sides are identical, begin with vocals, and have the exact same,
handwritten, very long, deadwax info string: "7-29118-CCA-2960-S-
SH1", followed by two circular symbols, then "R-13578-SH1", "SLM", "SLM"
again, "triangle 8192", and finally "1-1". Listed times are (3:12); actual
times are (3:13).
I have seen 45s released internationally for this song that make no
mention of Don Gehman at all.
I have also just pulled my 1985, self-titled Geffen 24042 album. On Side
One, it has two lines of info on the LP label, as to production credit:
"Produced By Bob Gaudio" on line one, then "(*) Produced By Don
Gehman" on line two. This is normally done when specific tracks appear
that were produced by each guy. Asterisks only appear on tracks 3 and 4
("American As Apple Pie" and "Living Without Your Love") respectively,
implying that Gaudio produced the LPv of track one, "I Wanna Hear...".
Side Two of this album only states "Produced By Bob Gaudio", indicating
that he alone produced that side's five tracks.
I just played/timed the album version of "I Wanna Hear It From Your Lips".
It starts with the vocal, has a listed time of (3:12), but an actual time of
(3:15).
The two versions I just played both sound very similar. So it's gonna
require a detailed, "under the microscope" analysis, at this point. Since it
seems that ace audiophile Mark Mathews has already been helping Santi
investigate this one, I will now see if Mark has had the "definite Gaudio LP
mix" available to him yet. And if not, I will shoot it out to him, so he can
compare/contrast it against the "Gehman 45 mix", and get to bottom of
this one, once and for all...
Edited by jimct on 26 April 2016 at 3:53pm
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Santi Paradoa
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| Posted: 26 April 2016 at 6:59pm | IP Logged
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Thanks Jim. That certainly will be useful. What I believe is that even though the 45 says it's the remix by Don Gehman it really is not. It's just the LP version. However, if that's the case then why would the folks at Geffen Records label the 45 a remix but use the LP version instead? Did somebody make a huge error back in '85 that never got corrected?
That might mean that the actual remix has never been released until now when Varese Sarabande added it to this CD release as a bonus track. I'm willing to bet that Ed's commercial 45 matches Jim's promo as well as the copy Mark used as a dub to compare it to the true remix that appears on this new release.
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Santi Paradoa
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jimct
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| Posted: 26 April 2016 at 9:02pm | IP Logged
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Santi, earlier tonight Mark had me shoot him out my 1985 vinyl LP version
for his analysis, so we'll know soon enough. If there's one thing we've proven
time and time again on this forum, it's that you can't always believe what you
read on a record label!
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 27 April 2016 at 12:33pm | IP Logged
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I'd like to add that sometimes in the vaults there will be a tape that says "single version" - it may simply be the actual tape used to master the 45 but not in any way different than the album version - yet, in later years, when bonus cuts were being selected for CDs, someone will see these labels in the vaults, and a single version will be a bonus cut on a CD but it actually no different than the album version which is also on the same CD! This has happened with some Cherry Red releases.
I was working with Sony on a few projects where this situation came up - we were considering including such versions - but I was sent tape dubs in advance only to discover there was no difference at all, so we didn't include the so-called "single versions" on the CD as bonuses.
I suppose it's possible this "remixed by Don Gehman" single version that appears as track 11 on the Varese CD comes from a mislabeled tape and could be the same as the regular album version - but, more likely, it's an unearthed remix that's never been released until now. I'll be buying the CD soon to get the 12" version of "I Wanna Hear...", which has been confirmed to be included, even though Amazon and Varese Sarabande do not show it listed. So I can compare this "single remix", too, once I get the CD. But I imagine someone like Mark will get to the heart of this issue before then.
Edited by EdisonLite on 28 April 2016 at 12:26pm
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Santi Paradoa
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| Posted: 27 April 2016 at 7:50pm | IP Logged
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Good info Gordon. One thing is for certain this new Varese Sarabande CD release has three distinctly different versions of the song "I Wanna Hear It From Your Lips." Track one is the LP version (which also is the same as the commercial and promo 45 issued in '85 plus matches the version on the Lost 45s of the 70s & 80s CD issued in 1998 also on Varese Sarabande). Track eleven is labeled as the remix by Don Gehman. Finally, track twelve is labeled the 12" version/remix by John "Jellybean" Benitez. Again, none of those three tracks are the same.
The only question(s) remaining to be answered are did the remix by Don Gehman actually get released back in '85 (and if so when and where?). If it was in the vault for three decades but finally someone pulled the tape for this reissue then it's simply an unreleased rarity that was added as a bonus cut. Of course, if someone comes forward with an original commercial or promo single that actually has the remix on it then we have the answer we need. Before I forget here is the dead wax info for the Geffen commercial single 29118 that Mark used for comparsion purposes: 7-29118-CCA-2960-S-SRI (matching Jim's promo copy except for the last two characters).
Edited by Santi Paradoa on 28 April 2016 at 6:20am
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80smusicfreak
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| Posted: 27 April 2016 at 11:21pm | IP Logged
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995wlol wrote:
EdisonLite wrote:
| I found the Japanese import CD of it in '85 at Tower Records/DC |
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EdisonLite, what is the label/catalog number of your Japanse CD--it must be rare, it is not even listed in Discogs. |
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I'm not EdisonLite, but his original 1985 Japan-for-Japan pressing of the Eric Carmen CD must be Geffen 32DP-209, as shown here. True, it's not currently listed on Discogs, and because it's an early CD, yeah, it's fairly rare - but over the years, I've been amazed by some of the pretty COMMON stuff that still isn't shown at Discogs, either. In '85, Japan also pressed the Eric Carmen CDs for the European market, on Geffen CDGEF 26056, which - according to on-line sources - carries "32DP-209" in the matrix no. (which makes sense); that pressing IS shown on Discogs, but is no doubt just as rare...
How ironic that the only major music market to not see the album released on CD in '85 was EC's native U.S.! No doubt Geffen would've released it on CD here as well in the spring of that year had "I Wanna Hear it from Your Lips" cracked the top 10 (thus likely sending the album into the top 20, and to a minimum of gold status), but alas, the single stalled in the 30s, and the follow-up, "I'm Through with Love", barely cracked the top 100. As I've tried to explain before, record labels here were still very skittish about releasing CDs in '85, unless they were by high-profile acts. Even then, in most cases, you still had to wait until a couple months AFTER the vinyl LP & cassette versions had hit store shelves before you could buy the CD...
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aaronk
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| Posted: 28 April 2016 at 7:41am | IP Logged
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80smusicfreak wrote:
| ... in most cases, you still had to wait until a couple months AFTER the vinyl LP & cassette versions had hit store shelves before you could buy the CD... |
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Well, it was 1985, so it was probably a long journey for those CDs to make it from Japan to the US on the Mayflower and then carried by Pony Express across the Great Plains.
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Paul C
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| Posted: 28 April 2016 at 8:12am | IP Logged
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FWIW, my Canadian commercial 45, which I purchased during the fifteen minutes this song was a hit, makes no mention of Don Gehman or it being a remix on either the label or the picture sleeve. To my ears, it sounds the same as on the The Lost 45's Of The '70s and '80s CD. The label number is 92 91187 (note how the Canadian number incorporates the US number) and, as is the case with the US commercial 45, indicates "CCA 2960" underneath the label number.
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 28 April 2016 at 12:21pm | IP Logged
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I just checked, and I was incorrect as to which version of "Eric Carmen" I bought on CD in Tower 31 years ago. I just pulled it. It was an import (of course) but not a Japanese one. It's this European one:
<Japan also pressed the Eric Carmen CDs for the European market, on Geffen CDGEF 26056>
BTW, until a friend pointed it out to me, I hadn't realized, this CD just isn't as bright as the US vinyl LP counterpart. I had to remaster the CD to give it the high end that was much clearer on the LP. Then, when Geffen/US released this CD in the late '90s, I was hoping for a transfer that closely resembled the brightness on the US LP. Instead, it was reverse. While the European CD was significantly less bright/clear compared to the US LP, the US Geffen '98 CD reissue was even more muffled. Let's hope this Varese CD sounds great. I ordered the CD yesterday, so I should be getting it soon.
Edited by EdisonLite on 28 April 2016 at 12:23pm
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Topic: Eric Carmen - "I Wanna Hear it from..."
