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jimct
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| Posted: 09 June 2008 at 11:20am | IP Logged
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My commercial 45, which is stereo, and confirmed as Metromedia 117, has a listed time of (3:06), but an actual time of (3:15). My 45 goes clearly longer than the Rhino, Varese and Time-Life CDs for this song in the database. There are a few (3:13) length versions for this song in the database, all on the "Thump" label, but they unfortunately all appear in mono.
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Hykker
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| Posted: 09 June 2008 at 6:27pm | IP Logged
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Are the mono versions a true mono mix (as was the mono side of the promo single), or just a fold-down? This one ranks high on my "wish I had it on a promo copy" list...the stereo mix was just awful...even listening in stereo the lead singer's voice gets buried, if folded to mono it's even worse.
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boynamedfoo
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| Posted: 25 February 2010 at 9:52am | IP Logged
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Question, the DB heading lists the 45 as 3:15 per jimct's posting, but the 4 (M) 3:13 listings still say :07 secs. longer than 45 or Lp. Am I missing something or I'm guessing it's a mistake?
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TomDiehl1
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| Posted: 25 February 2010 at 9:36pm | IP Logged
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There are 2 different 45 pressings for this.... one pressing has the vocal in the center channel, the other pressing has the lead vocal off to one side...
Jim, what are the deadwax matrix numbers for your pressing and are they handwritten or machine stamped?
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TomDiehl1
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| Posted: 24 March 2010 at 1:03am | IP Logged
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Just came across one of my two stock copies of this 45, the version with the centered vocals....it is styrene and has a handwritten deadwax matrix of ZTS-144398-1A. Indeed it does have a playing time of 3:15. Will update when i come across my other copy of the single.
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TomDiehl1
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| Posted: 11 April 2010 at 8:27pm | IP Logged
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Just came across my other copy of Color Him Father by the Winstons. Both pressings of my 45's are on styrene (i did have a vinyl pressing of the variation with vocals in one channel once but that copy is long gone), both are confirmed as Metromedia MMS-117, both labels list a playing time of 3:06. As mentioned above, my pressing with the handwritten matrix numbers times out to (3:15) and has centered vocals.
The copy I came across today has the machine stamped deadwax numbers. Those stamped numbers are ZTS 144398-2C. This copy times out to (3:06) and has vocals off to one side.
Edited by TomDiehl1 on 20 June 2010 at 9:57pm
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 12 April 2010 at 8:47pm | IP Logged
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Tom:
Is the "Color Him Father" commercial 45 pressing with the centered vocals in stereo?
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Hykker
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| Posted: 13 April 2010 at 5:42am | IP Logged
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Do all copies with the handwritten matrix #s have the centered vocals, and all stamped ones have them panned to one side?
If so, makes it easy to find whichever version you're missing.
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TomDiehl1
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| Posted: 13 April 2010 at 11:17pm | IP Logged
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Todd, both pressings of my 45 are indeed stereo.
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TomDiehl1
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| Posted: 13 April 2010 at 11:18pm | IP Logged
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Hykker wrote:
Do all copies with the handwritten matrix #s have the centered vocals, and all stamped ones have them panned to one side?
If so, makes it easy to find whichever version you're missing. |
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For now, until proven otherwise, i'd say it's safe to assume that. i don't know which version appears on the reissue 45 however.
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jimct
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| Posted: 14 April 2010 at 12:36pm | IP Logged
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TomDiehl1 wrote:
| Jim, what are the deadwax matrix numbers for your pressing and are they handwritten or machine stamped? |
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Tom, I have finally been able to reach my 1969 commercial 45s again. I have two commercial 45 copies, and they both have the same, handwritten "ZTS-144398-1A" deadwax that you found for one of your stock copies, for what it's worth at this point.
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TomDiehl1
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| Posted: 14 April 2010 at 1:51pm | IP Logged
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Jim are either of your copies vinyl pressings?
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jimct
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| Posted: 14 April 2010 at 4:15pm | IP Logged
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No, Tom, both my copies are styrene. In fact, I don't recall that any of my many 1969-72 Metromedia stock/promo 45s were on vinyl, until the label's last year or so, around '73, when the label became distributed by RCA before dissolving.
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TomDiehl1
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| Posted: 14 April 2010 at 6:24pm | IP Logged
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Both of my current copies are styrene but I can confirm that a previous copy I owned was on vinyl, and had the vocal off to one side (i do not remember if it had machine stamped matrix numbers but I would assume it would be a Columbia pressing on vinyl....they were doing vinyl pressings during this time so it's possible). On an old external hard drive I have that doesn't work, I did have a dub of this specific 45, but I don't remember what it timed out to...at this point i won't know, either... but that pressing certainly does exist.
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 08 June 2010 at 9:12pm | IP Logged
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Trying to track down a vocals centered, stereo copy of this 45. It's rather frustrating, since with different deadwax numbers that what Jim and Tom have mentioned. And, prices on this 45 are $15.00 up to $50.00 or more...
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bwolfe
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| Posted: 09 June 2010 at 6:24am | IP Logged
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I have the Metromedia reissue with "Love Of the Common People" on the flip side.
Both sides stereo and yes lousy vocal mix.
"Color Him Father" is such a terrific song because you don't realize where its going until the last verse.
A tribute to a stepfather.
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KentT
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This 45 is very pricey and collectable due to being beloved by Break Beats fans and Sampling use.
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TomDiehl1
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| Posted: 15 August 2010 at 10:42pm | IP Logged
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The interesting thing about the B sides of each pressing is that they are different stereo mixes as well. In fact for the pressing that has the vocal off to one side the mix is basically mono with a little reverb in one channel...while the other pressing has a distinct wide stereo mix.... I wonder if that would make a difference in how much a given pressing would sell for.
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jimct
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| Posted: 05 February 2014 at 10:03am | IP Logged
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Hykker wrote:
Are the mono versions a true mono mix (as was the
mono side of the promo single), or just a fold-down? This one ranks high
on my "wish I had it on a promo copy" list...the stereo mix was just
awful...even listening in stereo the lead singer's voice gets buried, if
folded to mono it's even worse. |
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I have finally managed to track down a promo 45 for this song. "Color Him
Father" appears on only one side of it, and it is in mono. Listed time
(3:06), actual time (3:13). Deadwax is a handwritten "ZTSP-144357-1A".
My timing here does happen to match up exactly with the mono versions
on the Thump CDs I referenced earlier in this thread.
As far as it being a dedicated mono mix or a fold down, I will need to have
my hard-working buddy Aaron make that determination, and report back
his findings, when time permits.
Edited by jimct on 05 February 2014 at 10:04am
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 05 February 2014 at 9:21pm | IP Logged
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Jim, I have the Metromedia Trophy Series reissue 45 with the wonky vocal-in-the-right-channel stereo mix. When summed to mono, the vocals are down the Grand Canyon a few hundred feet. That right-channel vocal is also fairly wet, whereas the far more up-front vocal on my mono DJ 45 is drier.
Unfortunately, my DJ 45 (which has a second Metromedia logo with "PLUG SIDE" beneath it on the right side, both in red) was a firsthand "learning opportunity" for my MD predecessor at our college station: remove record from sleeve before writing on it. He found out the hard way that styrene is severely allergic to the alcohol in black permanent markers, and the "306" file number he'd written on the plain white sleeve branded itself forever into the record. :(
It's possible that the DJ 45 is simply the vocal-centered second stereo mix stock copy Tom mentioned, summed to mono. But having never heard that stereo mix, I can't say one way or the other.
(UPDATE: In comparing the mono DJ 45 with the centered-vocal stereo track on Rhino's Soul Hits Of The '70s Vol. 1 CD, the vocal on the mono DJ 45 is noticeably drier than it is on the stereo Rhino track, summed to mono. Both vocals do have reverb, but there's definitely more on the Rhino track.)
Edited by Yah Shure on 06 February 2014 at 10:02pm
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Winstons-"Color Him Father"
