Top 40 Music on Compact Disc: Tommy Roe

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Topic: Tommy Roe - Dizzy

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crapfromthepast
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Posted: 16 September 2020 at 7:03pm \| IP Logged

I love this 1969 gem, and its eleven key changes. The rock-solid Hal Blaine drum part just seals the deal for me.

Mono 45 version (2:52)

The opening snare drum hit is dry, with no reverb. There's plenty of reverb on the cool drum breaks, just not on the opening snare.

It fades from about 2:38 to 2:52.

It's not available on CD.

Stereo LP version (2:57)

The opening snare drum has reverb on it. Overall, it's a slightly different mix than the 45, and is around 2% slower than the 45.

It fades from about 2:38 to 2:57.

This version shows up on Rhino's Billboard Top R&R Hits 1969 (both 1989 original release and 1993 rerelease; both are digitally identical). I think (but can't confirm) that the left and right channels are swapped on Billboard.

Non-hit 1986 remix (2:57)

Mastering engineer Steve Hoffman remixed a few of the songs on MCA's Vintage Music series, but I haven't found documentation listing which songs are remixed. "Dizzy" is one of the remixes.

Overall, it's not that far off from the original mix, and you wouldn't recognize it as a remix unless you were A/B-ing it. In the first ten seconds, there's a prominent acoustic guitar in the left channel of the original stereo LP mix. In the remix, it's much farther back in the mix. Plus, the sound of the reverb is different. In the opening snare of the stereo LP mix, you can hear the attack of the snare very clearly. In the remix, the opening attack seems swallowed up by the reverb that follows. (Thanks to David C and Mark M for helping with the A/B comparison.)

It fades from about 2:46 to 2:57. If you're unsure which version you have, check the fade. If it stays at full volume to 2:46, it's the 1986 remix.

The remix showed up first on MCA's Vintage Music Vol. 10 (1986). The same analog transfer is used on:

Time-Life's Classic Rock Vol. 6 1969 (1988)
Time-Life's AM Gold Vol. 33 The '60s Generation (2001) - digitally exactly 1.04 dB louder than Classic Rock Vol. 6 1969

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AndrewChouffi
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Posted: 17 September 2020 at 5:52am \| IP Logged

Hi Ron,

Thank you for your analysis!

I never doubt you, but I was wondering if possibly the
remix of "Dizzy" is not a steve Hoffman remix, but an
ABC remix.

I seem to recall when the Vintage Music LP series came
out that I remembered that version (possibly on a '16
Greatest Hits' or on an MCA 'Collectibles - Greatest
Hits' or something...).

The only reason I am questioning this is Steve Hoffman
was never known for slathering his late-80s remixes
with reverb.

If anybody out there has any information or conjecture
I'd love to hear it!

Thanks!

Andy

C J Brown
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Posted: 18 September 2020 at 4:28pm \| IP Logged

Ron remarks about Hal Blaine on his "Dizzy" drumming
sound reminds me of the same on "Sweet Pea". I have a
stereo LP bub of this track and the drum is outstanding.
To me way more noticble on LP versus Cd versions.

As for Dizzy I have a 1993 MCA greatest hits CD with a
stereo version that runs 2:46. Perhaps it runs too fast?

LunarLaugh
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Posted: 19 September 2020 at 11:48am \| IP Logged

Bill Inglot remastered the stereo "Dizzy" for the 1993
issue of MCA's Tommy Roe Greatest Hits album and
pitched it up to match the 45. The L/R channels match the
Billboard disc. This disc is my preferred source of all
things Tommy Roe (and it even has the mono mix of
"Sheila").

The 45 mono mix had quite a bit of compression that made
the drums really pop during the breaks.

Edited by LunarLaugh on 19 September 2020 at 11:51am

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C J Brown
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Posted: 19 September 2020 at 4:21pm \| IP Logged

Thanks for that explanation of the 1993 MCA mix.

I seem to remember the"panning" effect heard of the drums
in the 45 mix of Sheila really shines on the MCA disc or
one of my Rhino title I have.

LunarLaugh
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Posted: 19 September 2020 at 10:00pm \| IP Logged

C J Brown wrote:

Thanks for that explanation of the
1993 MCA mix.

I seem to remember the"panning" effect heard of the drums
in the 45 mix of Sheila really shines on the MCA disc or
one of my Rhino title I have.

"Shelia" is in mono on the 1993 Greatest Hits but it does
indeed sound great in stereo on Rhino's "Billboard Top
Rock'n'Roll Hits 1962".

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C J Brown
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Posted: 20 September 2020 at 3:50pm \| IP Logged

My issue of the MCA 1993 Great Hits has Sheila in mono.
The Rhino Billboard 1982 disc has great mono sound. The
opening drums here offer a feel or hint of panning
despite being a mono track. The original ABC stereo LP
track sounds good using lots of reverb on the opening
drums. The original 45 version on Judd records uses a
different style of drumming without the opening sound.

LunarLaugh
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Posted: 20 September 2020 at 4:20pm \| IP Logged

C J Brown wrote:

My issue of the MCA 1993 Great Hits
has Sheila in mono.
The Rhino Billboard 1982 disc has great mono sound. The
opening drums here offer a feel or hint of panning
despite being a mono track. The original ABC stereo LP
track sounds good using lots of reverb on the opening
drums. The original 45 version on Judd records uses a
different style of drumming without the opening sound.

My copy of the Billboard 1962 disc is the original 1988
Rhino version. The 1993 Rhino reissue of this
compilation may contain the mono mix instead.

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C J Brown
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Posted: 21 September 2020 at 4:13pm \| IP Logged

When I get a chance I will dig out my copy of the Rhino
1962 to see what I have.

TomDiehl1
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Posted: 21 September 2020 at 9:10pm \| IP Logged

Are we discussing Dizzy, or Sheila? I'm
not able to follow along well without
getting confused.

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LunarLaugh
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Posted: 22 September 2020 at 10:03am \| IP Logged

The thread covers "Dizzy" which Ron pretty much clarified
in the first post, though I added my 2 cents and
mentioned that the 1993 MCA Tommy Roe Greatest Hits disc
contains the stereo mix of "Dizzy" (as found at slower
speed on the Rhino Billboard 1969 disc) pitched matched
to the 45 mix. Then I noted that "Sheila" appears in mono
on the same 1993 MCA Greatest Hits while the 1988
pressing of Rhino's Billboard 1962 disc has "Sheila" in
stereo. That clear it up any?

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C J Brown
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Posted: 22 September 2020 at 4:13pm \| IP Logged

In an effort not to confuse others I will cease any
forther mention of anything not "Dizzy" here. Sorry to
offend other members.

crapfromthepast
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Posted: 22 September 2020 at 7:16pm \| IP Logged

I'm sure no offense taken by anyone here.

I think in general, if there's discussion of a second song, we peel off the discussion into its own thread. It makes things much easier to follow, and to find later when we search on the title or artist.

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C J Brown
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Posted: 23 September 2020 at 4:08pm \| IP Logged

Yes you are correct. I will try to remember and be more
carefull in the future. Thanks.

Paul C
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Posted: 25 September 2020 at 5:47am \| IP Logged

AndrewChouffi wrote:

I used to own the MCA 'Collectibles' LP and I also
vaguely recollect this mix being on it, but I may well
be mistaken. Once you reach your mid-fifties, vague
recollections are the best you can hope for. And from
what we know about the history of ABC and its tapes, I
have my doubts that the multi-tracks would still have
been around in 1986. But I am by no means 100%
positive about any of this.

It's too bad those MCA 'Collectibles' LPs have never
been issued on CD (probably because they're not much
more than 20 minutes in length). The Rick Nelson one
has his mid-60s Decca hits in mono.

KentT
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Posted: 02 October 2020 at 9:35am \| IP Logged

I like the Stereo version of "Dizzy" but both versions are
superb.

Edited by KentT on 02 October 2020 at 9:36am

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AdvprosD
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Posted: 09 January 2021 at 8:55pm \| IP Logged

Last year, right after we moved into a new house I picked up a sealed set of vinyl and CD versions of the MCA Vintage Music series. I mostly did this for a decoration, as the content
wasn't known to me beforehand. I had never seen these discs back when I was DJing and assumed it was just a knockoff cover set until I started reading about them in threads here.

While my original set of vinyl and CD are still sealed, I saw another set go up on ebay from a seller I knew well. I purchased the first 10 issues on 5 CDs in used condition. I think
the vinyl series go up to 20 issues. The ones I just purchased showed up yesterday and all ripped down nicely. If I can be of any help to anyone looking for information on these
tracks I'll do my best to help.

Listening through a few today, I think these sound as familiar as I can recall them to be. (No later self-covers, etc.) I haven't compared the listings to see if they changed up
any songs from the vinyl issues to the CD versions yet. I assume the CD versions also go up to 11-20 on another set of 5 discs? I'll be looking for those now.

For decoration though, you can't beat the "Collectibles" CD sets for their appearance. Well, maybe some of the old Rhino sets looked pretty cool too.

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crapfromthepast
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Posted: 25 September 2023 at 7:15pm \| IP Logged

I'm revisiting "Dizzy", three years later.

I see that the database lists quite a few discs as having "1993 remixed LP version; 45 speed".

I only have one of those (Varese Sarabande's Bubblegum Classics Volume Two from 1995). To my ears, it sounds like the plain-old LP mix, but sped up by 2.44% compared to the LP version on Rhino's Billboard Top Rock 'N' Roll Hits 1969.

I understand from above that the origin of the sped-up LP mix is the 1993 Greatest Hits CD on MCA.

Is all of the above correct?

If it is, can we please change the all the database entries that currently show "1993 remixed LP version; 45 speed" to "LP version sped up to match 45 speed"?

We should distinguish between the 1986 remix (truly a remix from the multitracks) and the 1993 GH version (hit mix from 1969 but sped up).

Edited by crapfromthepast on 25 September 2023 at 7:16pm

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